Martinez vs Hosmer vs Santana

[moonslav59]

That is not really as bad as you say.

 

I'm talking just defense.

 

True, Devers could improve, but he looked pretty bad this year.

 

Bogey is bottom 14 at best- bottom 4 at worst.

 

Holt/Hernandez are below average at 2B, IMO.

 

HRam is below average at 1B.

 

With no pluses to compensate for all the negatives, it's worse than it looks.

[Spudboy]

I'm talking just defense.

 

True, Devers could improve, but he looked pretty bad this year.

 

Bogey is bottom 14 at best- bottom 4 at worst.

 

Holt/Hernandez are below average at 2B, IMO.

 

HRam is below average at 1B.

 

With no pluses to compensate for all the negatives, it's worse than it looks.

 

I think they can be okay. Certainly two things that will need attention is the SS 2nd double plays and how fluid and mistake-free they can be and of course Dever's throws.

 

Both things could be improved and should be. I don't see Hanley as a dire liability even though I'd like him and his contract gone.

 

You are right, none of them are plus defenders, but none of them should remain really bad either.

 

We will probably see!

[Larry Cook]

I'm talking just defense.

 

True, Devers could improve, but he looked pretty bad this year.

 

Bogey is bottom 14 at best- bottom 4 at worst.

 

Holt/Hernandez are below average at 2B, IMO.

 

HRam is below average at 1B.

 

With no pluses to compensate for all the negatives, it's worse than it looks.

 

I think you gave all our pitchers a giant collective nightmare.

[moonslav59]

I think they can be okay. Certainly two things that will need attention is the SS 2nd double plays and how fluid and mistake-free they can be and of course Dever's throws.

 

Both things could be improved and should be. I don't see Hanley as a dire liability even though I'd like him and his contract gone.

 

You are right, none of them are plus defenders, but none of them should remain really bad either.

 

We will probably see!

 

I hope Devers can make up for the erratic arm by having better range than most 3Bman, but it's hard to overcome 40+ errors (the pace he was on last year).

 

Bogey does not seem to be improving. In my opinion, he is worse than 2-3 years ago.

 

Holt is not a good defender. Hernandez should be okay.

 

HRam is a question mark but is below average at best, even when healthy. Maybe we sign a better defensive 1B to dig our Devers' throws.

 

[moonslav59]

I think you gave all our pitchers a giant collective nightmare.

 

They don't need me to give them nightmares, although our OF defense is dreamy.

[mvp 78]

JD could fill the 4th OF'er slot and probably play 30-40 games with no OF injuries. He would play in the OF when we play in NL parks. DH'ing the rest of the games makes the most sense.

 

With our IF defense looking very shaky, we should not weaken the OF defense, unless we have to.

 

We could start the season with this IF:

 

1B: HRam

2B: Holt

3B: Devers

SS: Bogey

 

Replace Holt with Marco Hernandez.

[mvp 78]

I'm talking just defense.

 

True, Devers could improve, but he looked pretty bad this year.

 

Bogey is bottom 14 at best- bottom 4 at worst.

 

Holt/Hernandez are below average at 2B, IMO.

 

HRam is below average at 1B.

 

With no pluses to compensate for all the negatives, it's worse than it looks.

 

He's only 21 and puts a lot of energy to learning defense. It's not "could" improve, it's "will" improve.

[moonslav59]

Replace Holt with Marco Hernandez.

 

Agreed, but Holt will probably get some time at 2B, if not, what's he doing on the 25 man roster? That's his best position.

[moonslav59]

He's only 21 and puts a lot of energy to learning defense. It's not "could" improve, it's "will" improve.

 

Devers should improve on defense.

 

I hope he gets off to a good start, so his confidence level is high.

 

"He's just a kid" bodes well for improving, but the door can swing both ways at his age.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, but Holt will probably get some time at 2B, if not, what's he doing on the 25 man roster? That's his best position.

 

It's the offseason. That's why he's on the 25 man roster right now.

[moonslav59]

It's the offseason. That's why he's on the 25 man roster right now.

 

Actually, I'm not sure they have a 25 man roster this time of year, and since he has an option left, he may not be on it for opening day. Swihart and Marrero are out of options.

[mvp 78]

Actually, I'm not sure they have a 25 man roster this time of year, and since he has an option left, he may not be on it for opening day. Swihart and Marrero are out of options.

 

I'd keep Marrero and Swihart over Holt.

[sk7326]

Devers should improve on defense.

 

I hope he gets off to a good start, so his confidence level is high.

 

"He's just a kid" bodes well for improving, but the door can swing both ways at his age.

 

He has overcome every challenge the org has given him since he was 17. He forced their hand in making him their 3B last season (by simply being better than the alternatives, both in house and via trade). I'm betting on the kid.

 

Best option for a bat is to revisit the Abreu trade to see if there is something reasonable - and then look at Santana for a high floor, meh ceiling one. Or Hosmer for the real boom/bust one.

[moonslav59]

I'd keep Marrero and Swihart over Holt.

 

Me too, especially with Holt making $2M.

[moonslav59]

He has overcome every challenge the org has given him since he was 17. He forced their hand in making him their 3B last season (by simply being better than the alternatives, both in house and via trade). I'm betting on the kid.

 

Best option for a bat is to revisit the Abreu trade to see if there is something reasonable - and then look at Santana for a high floor, meh ceiling one. Or Hosmer for the real boom/bust one.

 

My concern is that the reason Devers was kept down as long as he was was because of his defense. I'm sure he was working overtime on defense on the farm, yet he still looked pretty bad.

 

I'm sure he'll improve over the winter and ST'ing, but we should rightfully be concerned that he still will have some growing pains next season.

 

[mvp 78]

My concern is that the reason Devers was kept down as long as he was was because of his defense. I'm sure he was working overtime on defense on the farm, yet he still looked pretty bad.

 

I'm sure he'll improve over the winter and ST'ing, but we should rightfully be concerned that he still will have some growing pains next season.

 

 

He was kept down because they had Pablo.

 

And was he rushed or kept down too long? I'm getting conflicting reports!

[S5Dewey]

Butter on Devers:

 

"I was told to 'Take this kid out to a back field and see what he can do', and I looked at his body type and said, 'THIS KID??'." :-(

 

"He surprised me. He's surprisingly athletic for his body type. He can do it all. He has great quickness and an outstanding arm. He can make the one-handed pickup and throw as well as anyone In addition he's the fastest one on the team. You think Betts is fast? Devers can beat him running backwards!" (OK, that may have been an exaggeration, but it's what Butter said. LOL)

 

"This guy's a good one. He's got some learning and some growing to do but he's going to be a good one". "He's got surprising power. His hands are quick from the middle of the swing point in." [This is one reason I like listening to someone who actually knows what he's talking about. I'd never heard anyone talk about a hitter 'from the middle of his swing point in' before].

 

Although Butter wasn't asked about transitioning Devers to 1B and didn't comment on it he believes that Devers is someone the team should hold onto. He alluded to the fact that in his opinion Devers could be one of the best players in baseball in a few years. Of course the big word there is COULD, but that's more than can be said about most players.

[sk7326]

My concern is that the reason Devers was kept down as long as he was was because of his defense. I'm sure he was working overtime on defense on the farm, yet he still looked pretty bad.

 

I'm sure he'll improve over the winter and ST'ing, but we should rightfully be concerned that he still will have some growing pains next season.

 

 

As long as he was? He spent sixteen minutes in AAA!! You don't think he hit some milestones defensively to move from AA? He needs work - but again, I have no problem betting on the kid, because the kid was earned that consideration.

[sk7326]

He was kept down because they had Pablo.

 

And was he rushed or kept down too long? I'm getting conflicting reports!

 

He forced them to rush him - which is the way it should be.

[moonslav59]

As long as he was? He spent sixteen minutes in AAA!! You don't think he hit some milestones defensively to move from AA? He needs work - but again, I have no problem betting on the kid, because the kid was earned that consideration.

 

Honestly, I don't think they wanted to promote Devers to MLB. They had to.

 

Look, I love Devers. His defense was awful last year. I'm not giving up on him by saying I still have a significant concern over his growing curve during a championship run in 2018.

 

Certainly, he can make major strides in one season. Certainly, it might take longer than we hope.

[sk7326]

Honestly, I don't think they wanted to promote Devers to MLB. They had to.

 

Look, I love Devers. His defense was awful last year. I'm not giving up on him by saying I still have a significant concern over his growing curve during a championship run in 2018.

 

Certainly, he can make major strides in one season. Certainly, it might take longer than we hope.

 

You're right - it might take until he's 23 ... he forced them to call him up. Yes the guys they had stunk - but they could have given some magic beans for Todd Frazier. But they thought he was a better choice - and he was. I don't think they intended on promoting him in 2017 - but he made it impossible for them not to.

[OH FOY]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=rafael+devers#id=5&vid=73fb5980a1d577ca295be535728d775f&action=click

 

You keep him at 3rd, because he's only 21 years old, and cant go by only a few Major League games.

Notice how many HRS, he hit to Left Field.

Edited December 12, 2017 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

My first choice is to keep Devers at 3B for at least another year or two to see if he can improve enough to not be a liability on defense.

 

Now, if we lose out on JD Martinez, I'd rather have Moustakas than Hosmer. He is likely to get less money and less years, and he's better than Hosmer. That is one scenario, I'd consider moving Devers. The second one might be after 2018. We could sign Machado and move devers to 1B, assuming we just sign a stop-gap 1Bman this winter.

[sk7326]

My first choice is to keep Devers at 3B for at least another year or two to see if he can improve enough to not be a liability on defense.

 

Now, if we lose out on JD Martinez, I'd rather have Moustakas than Hosmer. He is likely to get less money and less years, and he's better than Hosmer. That is one scenario, I'd consider moving Devers. The second one might be after 2018. We could sign Machado and move devers to 1B, assuming we just sign a stop-gap 1Bman this winter.

 

Moustakas is not better than Hosmer - he does hit more homeruns

[mvp 78]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=rafael+devers#id=5&vid=73fb5980a1d577ca295be535728d775f&action=click

 

You keep him at 3rd, because he's only 21 years old, and cant go by only a few Major League games.

Notice how many HRS, he hit to Left Field.

 

Fake News! This video includes defensive highlights and I'm told that he sucks defensively!

[Nick]

Just sign a bat to play 1B or DH.

 

Adding a bat, having Devers for full year, possibly have Price pitch for full year, E Rod pitching healthy for almost full year, better production out of couple of guys named Xander and JBJ, going to 75/25 split on catching duties, all these things are possible in 2018 and improve the team.

[moonslav59]

Moustakas is not better than Hosmer - he does hit more homeruns

 

He's a better defender.

 

We need power.

 

Hosmer has a higher OBP but has been wildly inconsistent from year-to-year.

 

For the money, Moose is way better.

[sk7326]

He's a better defender.

 

We need power.

 

Hosmer has a higher OBP but has been wildly inconsistent from year-to-year.

 

For the money, Moose is way better.

 

Higher OBP - Moustakas is an okay third baseman, which makes him a better defender (positional advantage). Hosmer's metrics not great, although 1B not really a position where UZR sort of stats are very helpful. Both are risky bets. Hosmer has been more durable - although neither are bad. Both guys have been pretty volatile performance-wise. The significantly better OBP wins out here.

[moonslav59]

Higher OBP - Moustakas is an okay third baseman, which makes him a better defender (positional advantage). Hosmer's metrics not great, although 1B not really a position where UZR sort of stats are very helpful. Both are risky bets. Hosmer has been more durable - although neither are bad. Both guys have been pretty volatile performance-wise. The significantly better OBP wins out here.

 

MLBTR suggests Hosmer gets more money and more years than Moose. If that is true, I'll go with Moose. If not, I might go with neither. I really don't want Hosmer, unless it's for $30M/2, which will never happen.

[S5Dewey]

Fake News! This video includes defensive highlights and I'm told that he sucks defensively!

 

We all know who coined the phrase "Fake News". Please leave politics out of this forum. Thanks.