Pedroia undergoes microfracture surgery

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

So can anyone shed light on the injury? Report during the game last night sounded kind of positive' date=' or was that relaying what the team hopes is the case?[/quote']

 

?

 

Any updates on his situation?

[Kimmi]

Yeah, we should never sign anyone to anything longer than a 2 year deal. Mookie Betts? Forget him. Little guy, already has oblique issues.

 

As you well know, I am not a fan of big contracts, but I was all in on Pedroia's extension.

[oldtimer]

?

 

Any updates on his situation?

 

He is currently not taking part in any baseball activities with the idea that they want to give it more time to heal more completely. The thought is it will be several weeks before he can come back and then depending on how he heals. I wouldn't count on him until after the all star break and possibly even later.

[jacksonianmarch]

The best way to think of Pedroia is that he won’t be coming back. Then, if he comes back, it’s gravy for you

[devildavid]

Don't worry guys, I will save room for all of you on the Pedroia bandwagon when he comes back and contributes to our World Series ring.

 

I have been a big supporter of Pedroia but I am skeptical that he will ever return to form. I had the same skepticism when Hanley was signed. This is our biggest area of disagreement. But my reasoning is not that either player was not talented or did not try. Once a player gets an injury that severely impairs their performance, it is a long shot for them to ever be consistently productive again. I know there are exceptions to this (see Ortiz), but in general, physical decline leads to performance decline. It happened to another favorite of mine, Youk.

 

I admire your loyalty and positive outlook, but I think you are underestimating the toll that injuries take as a player ages.

[devildavid]

Yeah, we should never sign anyone to anything longer than a 2 year deal. Mookie Betts? Forget him. Little guy, already has oblique issues.

 

I get you are joking and that Betts has been ordained a superstar, but some reasonable caution may be warranted. Will a huge 10 year deal be needed to keep Mookie and if so, is it a no brainer no matter the price tag?

[S5Dewey]

I get you are joking and that Betts has been ordained a superstar, but some reasonable caution may be warranted. Will a huge 10 year deal be needed to keep Mookie and if so, is it a no brainer no matter the price tag?

 

"no matter the price tag" is a bit misleading. When it runs into the billions he's definitely too expensive.

 

It's looking like he's going to be one of the 2-3 highest paid position players in baseball and if someone is going to pay him that much it might as well be the Sox.

[moonslav59]

I get you are joking and that Betts has been ordained a superstar, but some reasonable caution may be warranted. Will a huge 10 year deal be needed to keep Mookie and if so, is it a no brainer no matter the price tag?

 

Of course, it's not a no-brainer. There are several major pluses and minuses on both sides of the choice.

 

As of right now, I'd give him a 10 year extension at $300M starting after his last arb year.

 

I might go $350M/12 right now buying out his arb years.

[Kimmi]

I have been a big supporter of Pedroia but I am skeptical that he will ever return to form. I had the same skepticism when Hanley was signed. This is our biggest area of disagreement. But my reasoning is not that either player was not talented or did not try. Once a player gets an injury that severely impairs their performance, it is a long shot for them to ever be consistently productive again. I know there are exceptions to this (see Ortiz), but in general, physical decline leads to performance decline. It happened to another favorite of mine, Youk.

 

I admire your loyalty and positive outlook, but I think you are underestimating the toll that injuries take as a player ages.

 

This is a very fair post.

 

I am remaining optimistic, but I can't really disagree with what you've said about injury and age.

[Kimmi]

I get you are joking and that Betts has been ordained a superstar, but some reasonable caution may be warranted. Will a huge 10 year deal be needed to keep Mookie and if so, is it a no brainer no matter the price tag?

 

Speaking as someone who was a big fan of Pedroia's extension, I would not sign Mookie to a 10 year deal. These things almost never work out.

[Bellhorn04]

Speaking as someone who was a big fan of Pedroia's extension, I would not sign Mookie to a 10 year deal. These things almost never work out.

 

Agreed that 10 year deals rarely work out, but a proper comparison would be age-specific and eliminate obvious lunacy like the Pujols signing at age 32.

[Kimmi]

Agreed that 10 year deals rarely work out, but a proper comparison would be age-specific and eliminate obvious lunacy like the Pujols signing at age 32.

 

Absolutely.

 

I'm still not buying it. Players reach their peak at about the age of 27. The decline becomes rather steep in the early 30s. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but IMO, a 10 year deal is too risky for any player.

 

Give me the Mitch Moreland and Rick Porcello types of deals any day of the week.

[moonslav59]

Agreed that 10 year deals rarely work out, but a proper comparison would be age-specific and eliminate obvious lunacy like the Pujols signing at age 32.

 

I listed the 8+ year deals of over $160M and there was a stark difference between those signed to players under the age of 27 and those between 27-29 and those to players 30 or older.

 

ARod signed at 25 (2001); under .910 just 2 out of 10 years and never under .847.

 

Stanton's extension started at age 25. He's got 9 years left. He'll only be 37 the last year of his deal.

 

Posey's started at 26 (9 year deal): Jury still out

 

Heyward's deal started at 26 and looks like a bust (8 years)

 

 

Jeter's deal started right at age 27: I'd say it was close to a wash. (Lots of debate on that call.)

 

Kemp's started at age 27 and was a bust for the most part.

 

Prince Fielder's contract started at age 28 and the injury made it a bust.

 

Joe Mauer's started at age 28 and has been a bust, IMO.

 

Altuve's (28) is a 7 year deal and just started.

 

Miggy's first year was at age 33: Bust

 

Pujols' first year was at age 32: Bust

 

Cano's first year was at age 31: Jury still out, but his highest 5 OPS years were all with NYY.

 

Votto's started at age 30: so far - very good.

 

Chris Davis at age 30: looks like bust, so far.

 

Teixeira started at 29- I'd say a let down

 

Manny's started at age 29 and was a success.

.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Absolutely.

 

I'm still not buying it. Players reach their peak at about the age of 27. The decline becomes rather steep in the early 30s. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but IMO, a 10 year deal is too risky for any player.

 

Give me the Mitch Moreland and Rick Porcello types of deals any day of the week.

 

Mitch Moreland is Mitch Moreland.

 

Mookie Betts is an all-around superstar playing for one of the richest franchises in the game. He might be one of the all-time greats. He has a value to the franchise over and above his immense value on the field. You have to go the extra mile for such a property, IMO.

[devildavid]

Absolutely.

 

I'm still not buying it. Players reach their peak at about the age of 27. The decline becomes rather steep in the early 30s. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but IMO, a 10 year deal is too risky for any player.

 

Give me the Mitch Moreland and Rick Porcello types of deals any day of the week.

 

We are in agreement here. As great as Mookie has been this season, it would be better if the Sox could extend him similar to Pedroia, but of course for much bigger dollars.Probably won't happen, as that train is speeding away from the station, if not already long gone. One way at another, Mookie is bound to cash in big.

[Carbo-Diem]

I would think locking up Sale for five more years would come before Betts. He has shown to be durable with that Pedro-like wiry frame and having him as 1-2 with Price would solidify the rotation. 5 for 160 would make him just a touch above what Price is getting and I think he would forgo free agency for that.

[moonslav59]

I would think locking up Sale for five more years would come before Betts. He has shown to be durable with that Pedro-like wiry frame and having him as 1-2 with Price would solidify the rotation. 5 for 160 would make him just a touch above what Price is getting and I think he would forgo free agency for that.

 

I doubt it could be viewed as before Betts. It would likely be instead of Betts. I doubt we can pay 3 guys over $30M for even 1 year, let alone 3-4 years in a row.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to keep Sale and Betts, but if I had to choose-- close call-- I'd take Betts.

 

Now, Sale for 5 vs Betts for 10 changes the debate and risk factors, but I doubt sale settles for just 5 years.

[oldtimer]

I doubt it could be viewed as before Betts. It would likely be instead of Betts. I doubt we can pay 3 guys over $30M for even 1 year, let alone 3-4 years in a row.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to keep Sale and Betts, but if I had to choose-- close call-- I'd take Betts.

 

Now, Sale for 5 vs Betts for 10 changes the debate and risk factors, but I doubt sale settles for just 5 years.

 

We need to include the entire team in this discussion and in that we have Beni, Bogaerts, Devers, Martinez and other starting pitchers, including Price and his large contract. Those and the other relief pitchers and utility players. With a team full of long term top heavy contracts it means a lot of guys will have to be on the cheap.

[Spudboy]

Speaking as someone who was a big fan of Pedroia's extension, I would not sign Mookie to a 10 year deal. These things almost never work out.

 

I'd offer him 5/175.

 

If he balks at that then f*** him.

 

As long as he does not end up in NY.

[Kimmi]

Mitch Moreland is Mitch Moreland.

 

Mookie Betts is an all-around superstar playing for one of the richest franchises in the game. He might be one of the all-time greats. He has a value to the franchise over and above his immense value on the field. You have to go the extra mile for such a property, IMO.

 

My point is that you sign the Mitch Moreland types to fill in the holes that are not filled by your home grown players, not that you try to make the Mitch Moreland types be the face of the franchise.

 

I agree that Mookie is special. He is still not worth 10 years beyond his remaining arb years. Go the extra mile - give him 6 years.

[Kimmi]

I'd offer him 5/175.

 

If he balks at that then f*** him.

 

As long as he does not end up in NY.

 

I could live with that.

[Spudboy]

I could live with that.

 

I figured you would as we have the same opinion about long term contracts as well as pen construction.

 

If I were an owner of a team I would not play in the 7-10 year contract arena. It's nut to do that when dealing with human bodies and human performance.

[Bellhorn04]

I figured you would as we have the same opinion about long term contracts as well as pen construction.

 

If I were an owner of a team I would not play in the 7-10 year contract arena. It's nut to do that when dealing with human bodies and human performance.

 

But then you can't have Pedros or Mannys.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd offer him 5/175.

 

If he balks at that then f*** him.

 

As long as he does not end up in NY.

 

He’ll have just turned 28 when he becomes a FA. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, he’s baseball’s present day Willie Mays. I think Trout is a present day Mantle and Betts is a present day Mays. Mays in his prime as a FA would make serious, serious bank. There’s no reason for Betts to ink up now. He’s already getting paid $10.5 mil this year. He’s on pace to destroy that next year. He bets on himself and he’s staring at an 8-10 year deal. After Harper and Machado set the market this offseason, Betts will set it after that in the same offseason as Mike Trout becomes a FA. It’s the cost of doing business

[Bellhorn04]

He’ll have just turned 28 when he becomes a FA. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, he’s baseball’s present day Willie Mays. I think Trout is a present day Mantle and Betts is a present day Mays. Mays in his prime as a FA would make serious, serious bank. There’s no reason for Betts to ink up now. He’s already getting paid $10.5 mil this year. He’s on pace to destroy that next year. He bets on himself and he’s staring at an 8-10 year deal. After Harper and Machado set the market this offseason, Betts will set it after that in the same offseason as Mike Trout becomes a FA. It’s the cost of doing business

 

Bryce Harper is a guy I definitely wouldn't trust to live up to his next contract.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

A reference point for an extension for Mookie would be the one Altuve got recently. And I think I'm getting too lazy to look all these things up anymore.

[jacksonianmarch]

Altuve has a meager long term contract prior to the big extension. The Astros owned him through next year. His first season of his new FA contract would have been age 30. He got ages 30-34 at $30 mil AAV. It’s a nice haul, but Betts is about to get market value or close to it in arb, where Altuve was far below market. Betts is in the Bogaerts camp of guys taking it one year at a time. You’re not getting a discount. I guarantee the Sox would need to toss him a David Price or more deal to get him to sign

[Natick to NC]

Mookie is a 31 million dollar a year player for 10 years .Now that's my deal along with All star bonus MVP bonus health Bonus and multiple opt outs at year 5 6 7 .Tripple Crown 10 million Bonus MVP 8 million....A realistic incentive of 1 MVP 6 all star games .2 million per ....he could easily Reach 330 million .Yea I think Mookie and maybe Baez deserve this contract .I wouldn't give Machado more than 24 mill a year for 7 and I wouldn't even offer up a contract to Harper he's way to injury prone and goes on long cold streaks . Edited June 29, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Bellhorn04]

Altuve has a meager long term contract prior to the big extension. The Astros owned him through next year. His first season of his new FA contract would have been age 30. He got ages 30-34 at $30 mil AAV. It’s a nice haul, but Betts is about to get market value or close to it in arb, where Altuve was far below market. Betts is in the Bogaerts camp of guys taking it one year at a time. You’re not getting a discount. I guarantee the Sox would need to toss him a David Price or more deal to get him to sign

 

So 9 years, including the 2 remaining arb years, at 31 million = 279 million.

[notin]

Mookie is a 31 million dollar a year player for 10 years .Now that's my deal along with All star bonus MVP bonus health Bonus and multiple opt outs at year 5 6 7 .Tripple Crown 10 million Bonus MVP 8 million....A realistic incentive of 1 MVP 6 all star games .2 million per ....he could easily Reach 330 million .Yea I think Mookie and maybe Baez deserve this contract .I wouldn't give Machado more than 24 mill a year for 7 and I wouldn't even offer up a contract to Harper he's way to injury prone and goes on long cold streaks .

 

The big problem with him trying to reach all those incentives is most of them are CBA violations.

 

There is no MLB player in history named Baez who is in Mookie's category. And Javier Baez, who "deserve this contract" is arguably the fourth best infielder on his own team...