Fire alex cora

[notin]

Cora will be back as manager next season according to Sam Kennedy. It could have been worse, Cora could have been given an extension.

 

Watch some other teams (Cubs, mainly) and you will learn to appreciate Cora rather quickly…

[moonslav59]

If Cora became available, this winter, there would be a long line of teams interviewing him.

[vegasbob]

Doesn't the commitment by the team ( Kennedy) to Cora and his own statements seem to imply that the CBO role will come out of the Sox organization ? Otherwise, if they were hiring an outsider to reenergize the program , I would expect them to be more cautious in making decisions for him. It all appears that JH has a heavy thumb on this organization . They might wind up with the next Bloom. A young executive just glad to be there.

 

If they do stay in house, you are going to see more committee type action than strong personality.

[sk7326]

Doesn't the commitment by the team ( Kennedy) to Cora and his own statements seem to imply that the CBO role will come out of the Sox organization ? Otherwise, if they were hiring an outsider to reenergize the program , I would expect them to be more cautious in making decisions for him. It all appears that JH has a heavy thumb on this organization . They might wind up with the next Bloom. A young executive just glad to be there.

 

If they do stay in house, you are going to see more committee type action than strong personality.

 

We know Cora's contract runs out next year. And we know that the org likes him, and we know that he is able to work with the baseball research staff - and the Red Sox are going to still be heavily into data no matter who gets hired.

 

I think Bloom came here intending to do a good job - and he did what management wanted him to do. Management did not want to take the PR hit for its priorities so Bloom is gone. Nature of the bidness.

[mvp 78]

Doesn't the commitment by the team ( Kennedy) to Cora and his own statements seem to imply that the CBO role will come out of the Sox organization ? Otherwise, if they were hiring an outsider to reenergize the program , I would expect them to be more cautious in making decisions for him. It all appears that JH has a heavy thumb on this organization . They might wind up with the next Bloom. A young executive just glad to be there.

 

If they do stay in house, you are going to see more committee type action than strong personality.

 

When DD came aboard, did he fire Farrell immediately?

[Dipre]

We know Cora's contract runs out next year. And we know that the org likes him, and we know that he is able to work with the baseball research staff - and the Red Sox are going to still be heavily into data no matter who gets hired.

 

I think Bloom came here intending to do a good job - and he did what management wanted him to do. Management did not want to take the PR hit for its priorities so Bloom is gone. Nature of the bidness.

 

Pretty good take. Bloom was just a scapegoat.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When DD came aboard, did he fire Farrell immediately?

 

Cloudy memory banks, but Lovullo did a good enough job when Farrell was ill to take over, but it would've been too insensitive to boot a guy going through serious treatments.

 

Meanwhile, Arizona immediately hired Lovullo, and he's been there ever since.

[notin]

Cloudy memory banks, but Lovullo did a good enough job when Farrell was ill to take over, but it would've been too insensitive to boot a guy going through serious treatments.

 

Meanwhile, Arizona immediately hired Lovullo, and he's been there ever since.

 

Farrell managed 3 AL East pennant winning teams - most in franchise history. He was dismissed after winning back to back AL East titles but losing in the ALCS to a team coached by his eventual garbage-drum banging replacement…

[vegasbob]

Cloudy memory banks, but Lovullo did a good enough job when Farrell was ill to take over, but it would've been too insensitive to boot a guy going through serious treatments.

 

Meanwhile, Arizona immediately hired Lovullo, and he's been there ever since.

 

Like Baltimore, the D'backs suffered through some bad years , but are now back in the playoffs in NL. maybe the same can happen in Boston next year.

[dgalehouse]

The trend in baseball seems to be hiring a baseball guy for manager , but a more studious , business type for CBO. It will be interesting to see what happens here.

[Bellhorn04]

It'll be interesting who they hire. It'll be even more interesting how big of a budget they get from Henry for this offseason.

[dgalehouse]

It'll be interesting who they hire. It'll be even more interesting how big of a budget they get from Henry for this offseason.

 

Whatever the budget is, you still need a guy who can evaluate talent and knows what it takes to build a contender. The last two years , the Sox had a pretty high payroll for a last place team. You can't blame all that on the budget.

[Maxbialystock]

Farrell managed 3 AL East pennant winning teams - most in franchise history. He was dismissed after winning back to back AL East titles but losing in the ALCS to a team coached by his eventual garbage-drum banging replacement…

 

I know, I know. He was just freaking brilliant.

 

Or was he?

 

He took over the 2013 Sox, which led MLB in runs scored and won the WS. The very next season, 2014, the Sox hitting plummeted to 18th in runs scored and they finished the season at 71-91. In 2015, the Sox hitting improved significantly to 4th, but the pitching stunk (ERA 4.31, 25th in MLB), and they finished 78-84.

 

In 2016 the Sox pitching improved to 9th in MLB in team ERA, and they were also #1 in MLb in runs scored. They were a juggernaut, but only won 93 games and lost all three ALDS games. In 2017 the Sox improved again to 4th in MLB in team ERA but the hitting slipped to 10th in runs scored. They again won 93 games and this time lost 3 of 4 ALDS games. Exit Farrell.

 

Enter Cora for the 2018 season, in which the Sox again led in MLB in runs scored, but whose ERA was 8th in MLB. That Sox team won 108 games and 11 of 14 games in the postseason--easily the best season in Sox history and I'd argue the best MLB team/season in the last 40 years.

 

In Cora's 2d season, 2019, the pitching nosedived to 19th in team ERA, but the hitting was still pretty good at 4th in MLB in runs scored. Sox went 84-78 and missed the postseason. 2020 was a nonseason.

 

In 2021 the Sox hitting was still good at 5th in runs scored, and the Sox pitching was OK at 15th in team ERA. Compare that to the 2016 Sox which was 1st in team scoring and whose ERA was 9th best. Both teams, 2016 and 2021, won 93 regular season games. But the 2021 Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card and then the 100 win Rays in the ALDS before losing to the Astros in the ALCS.

 

Do I need to add that the 2016 Sox lineup had Betts (OPS .897), Bogey (OPS .802), Pedey (OPS .835), JBJ (OPS .835), HanRam (OPS .866), and Ortiz (OPS 1.021)? How about David Price with 35 starts (22 quality starts), and 230 innings? Porcello won the Cy Young that year with 33 starts, 26 quality starts, 233 innings, and an ERA of 3.15. Knuckleballer Wright had 24 starts, 15 quality starts, and an ERA 3.33. And Kimbrel had 31 saves with an ERA of 3.40.

 

Gimme Alex Cora over Farrell any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[mvp 78]

Whatever the budget is, you still need a guy who can evaluate talent and knows what it takes to build a contender. The last two years , the Sox had a pretty high payroll for a last place team. You can't blame all that on the budget.

 

They had a middle of the road budget for a team that was in the middle of the road in the standings before it took a nose dive after the CBO was fired.

[notin]

The trend in baseball seems to be hiring a baseball guy for manager , but a more studious , business type for CBO. It will be interesting to see what happens here.

 

Most of those business types have spent their entire career working for baseball teams…

[moonslav59]

Whatever the budget is, you still need a guy who can evaluate talent and knows what it takes to build a contender. The last two years , the Sox had a pretty high payroll for a last place team. You can't blame all that on the budget.

 

You seem to shy away from context, and I agree that we did spend a lot the last 2 winters, but so many others spent more and passed us in the rankings, and our "starting point" was perhaps lower than many wanted to think it was and was below where these teams that passed us were 2 years ago.

[notin]

Giants fire Gabe Kapler.

 

Kapler and the Giants have been very successful breathing life into some fading pitching careers. Overall he has a very good track record as a manager.

 

If Cora gets dismissed or promoted, Kapler is a very good choice…

[moonslav59]

I know, I know. He was just freaking brilliant.

 

Or was he?

 

He took over the 2013 Sox, which led MLB in runs scored and won the WS. The very next season, 2014, the Sox hitting plummeted to 18th in runs scored and they finished the season at 71-91. In 2015, the Sox hitting improved significantly to 4th, but the pitching stunk (ERA 4.31, 25th in MLB), and they finished 78-84.

 

In 2016 the Sox pitching improved to 9th in MLB in team ERA, and they were also #1 in MLb in runs scored. They were a juggernaut, but only won 93 games and lost all three ALDS games. In 2017 the Sox improved again to 4th in MLB in team ERA but the hitting slipped to 10th in runs scored. They again won 93 games and this time lost 3 of 4 ALDS games. Exit Farrell.

 

Enter Cora for the 2018 season, in which the Sox again led in MLB in runs scored, but whose ERA was 8th in MLB. That Sox team won 108 games and 11 of 14 games in the postseason--easily the best season in Sox history and I'd argue the best MLB team/season in the last 40 years.

 

In Cora's 2d season, 2019, the pitching nosedived to 19th in team ERA, but the hitting was still pretty good at 4th in MLB in runs scored. Sox went 84-78 and missed the postseason. 2020 was a nonseason.

 

In 2021 the Sox hitting was still good at 5th in runs scored, and the Sox pitching was OK at 15th in team ERA. Compare that to the 2016 Sox which was 1st in team scoring and whose ERA was 9th best. Both teams, 2016 and 2021, won 93 regular season games. But the 2021 Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card and then the 100 win Rays in the ALDS before losing to the Astros in the ALCS.

 

Do I need to add that the 2016 Sox lineup had Betts (OPS .897), Bogey (OPS .802), Pedey (OPS .835), JBJ (OPS .835), HanRam (OPS .866), and Ortiz (OPS 1.021)? How about David Price with 35 starts (22 quality starts), and 230 innings? Porcello won the Cy Young that year with 33 starts, 26 quality starts, 233 innings, and an ERA of 3.15. Knuckleballer Wright had 24 starts, 15 quality starts, and an ERA 3.33. And Kimbrel had 31 saves with an ERA of 3.40.

 

Gimme Alex Cora over Farrell any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

That 2013 team was widely believed to have "over performed," although I'm not fully sold on that point, and there were some other major additions to the 2018 season, beyond Cora.

JD was a huge add.

Mookie nearly doubled his fWAR from 2017 to 2018 (5.4>10.5)

Beni went from 1.5 to 4.9.

Bogey 3.1 to 4.4

Price nearly doubled his GS'd from 2017. (1.5 fWAR>2.4)

Porcello did much better than '17 (2.0>2.4)

Then, we added Nate & Pearce.

Now, maybe Cora had something to so with all these improvements by the same guys on the 2017 team, but I'm not giving him a big chunk of that credit.

 

Just JD, Nate & Pearce alone, made the two teams vastly different.

[mvp 78]

Giants fire Gabe Kapler.

 

Kapler and the Giants have been very successful breathing life into some fading pitching careers. Overall he has a very good track record as a manager.

 

If Cora gets dismissed or promoted, Kapler is a very good choice…

 

Bench coach, sure.

[Maxbialystock]

That 2013 team was widely believed to have "over performed," although I'm not fully sold on that point, and there were some other major additions to the 2018 season, beyond Cora.

JD was a huge add.

Mookie nearly doubled his fWAR from 2017 to 2018 (5.4>10.5)

Beni went from 1.5 to 4.9.

Bogey 3.1 to 4.4

Price nearly doubled his GS'd from 2017. (1.5 fWAR>2.4)

Porcello did much better than '17 (2.0>2.4)

Then, we added Nate & Pearce.

Now, maybe Cora had something to so with all these improvements by the same guys on the 2017 team, but I'm not giving him a big chunk of that credit.

 

Just JD, Nate & Pearce alone, made the two teams vastly different.

 

Once again I'm guilty of writing way too long. The season to look at is 2021 when Cora absolutely did not have the talent he had in 2018 or that Farrell had in 2013, 2016, and 2017. But the Sox still won 93 games and made it to the ALCS.

[moonslav59]

Once again I'm guilty of writing way too long. The season to look at is 2021 when Cora absolutely did not have the talent he had in 2018 or that Farrell had in 2013, 2016, and 2017. But the Sox still won 93 games and made it to the ALCS.

 

I'm still a big Cora fan. He did a great job in '21 and helped in '18. I think he did near the best anyone could do in the other years, under trying circumstances.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm still a big Cora fan. He did a great job in '21 and helped in '18. I think he did near the best anyone could do in the other years, under trying circumstances.

 

Or circumstances when players look like they're not trying...

[Bellhorn04]

Or circumstances when players look like they're not trying...

 

Lately it looks like our pitchers are trying but our hitters our not.

[notin]

Or circumstances when players look like they're not trying...

 

162 games in 180ish days is brutal. With no adrenaline, Yoshida probably isn’t the only one just worn down…

[moonslav59]

Or circumstances when players look like they're not trying...

 

Often, when teams lose, it looks like they are not trying or not trying hard enough.

 

It's hard to know.

 

Body language is not 100% accurate, but I did get a sense we lost the enthusiasm we seemed to have back in July.

[moonslav59]

162 games in 180ish days is brutal. With no adrenaline, Yoshida probably isn’t the only one just worn down…

 

Further proof that more rest was needed.

[jad]

Further proof that more rest was needed.

 

If they were winning, they wouldn't need rest.

[Bellhorn04]

Further proof that more rest was needed.

 

I believe the rest philosophy is predicated on the idea you're going to make the playoffs...

[Maxbialystock]

162 games in 180ish days is brutal. With no adrenaline, Yoshida probably isn’t the only one just worn down…

 

Agree and would add these three points--

 

1) Ted Williams' claim that most difficult skill in all of sports is hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely, which becomes even harder when the pitching is good. Thus has Story (age 30, lifetime OPS .836) struggled since he returned from the IL.

 

2) Command of the strike zone, which means being good at both pitch recognition (especially if it's a ball or strike), but also being ready to swing at hittable pitches. Ted Williams, with his great reflexes and eyesight, was consummate at commanding the strike zone. I think these Sox hitters overall struggle with both pitch recognition and with being ready to swing at hittable pitches. Like the A's players in the movie Moneyball, they have been lectured endlessly on the value of a base on balls--which to me means being passive at the plate. The Rays hitters seem to me to be better at pitch recognition, but also better at attacking hittable pitches.

 

3) The schedule--which you cite--and especially the 48 games with just 3 days off (Aug 4-Sep 20), but also the injuries to Duran and Casas plus the need to look at Rafaela, Dalbec (yet again), et al. And let's not forget the pressure on the lineup/hitting when the Sox emerged from the ASG break with just 3 starters. Sale, Houck, and Whitlock were on the IL, and Pivetta was in the bullpen. Bello, Paxton (now on the IL), and Crawford were the starters.

[Maxbialystock]

I believe the rest philosophy is predicated on the idea you're going to make the playoffs...

 

I'm not sure that's the case. I agree with Cora's philosophy because I agree that 162 games--6 games a week for 6 months--are bound to have an effect on position players ability to stay focused. He believes in that approach, and I think it has worked for him.

 

But I would be remiss if I didn't repeat what someone else said. The Atlanta Braves are having another excellent season and have three players--Acuna, Riley, and Olson--who have played in 157, 157, and 160 games. Their respective OPS's and WAR's are 1.009/8.2, .859/5.7, and .994/7.2. So it is unarguable that their approach definitely works for them.