Fire alex cora

[sk7326]

Firing Cora is possible since there will be a new GM I suppose. And since 3 of our last 4 titles were done by first timers, might as well draw another name from a hat.

 

But on a more serious note - I'm not sure you blame Cora for the Red Sox starters ALL having below median seasons relative to expectations.

[jad]

Sale: 6 wins; Price-- 7; Eovaldi --1 . Former-Cy-Young-winner: 12. How is this the bullpen's fault?

[jung]

Anybody that thinks that 3 of the last 4 titles coming with first timers at the helm justifies making a managerial move, needs to rethink that one IMO. Organizational Chaos is not a strategy. Organizational Chaos is just chaos. We are looking at 3 distinct circumstances here:

- first championship in a zillion years

- perceived steady leadership (Farrell) following chaos (Bobby V), 2013

- a very solid first year for a manager handling a very good team, 2018

[illinoisredsox]

Anybody that thinks that 3 of the last 4 titles coming with first timers at the helm justifies making a managerial move, needs to rethink that one IMO. Organizational Chaos is not a strategy. Organizational Chaos is just chaos. We are looking at 3 distinct circumstances here:

- first championship in a zillion years

- perceived steady leadership (Farrell) following chaos (Bobby V), 2013

- a very solid first year for a manager handling a very good team, 2018

 

Jung, don’t you know that logic and reason have no place here? I won’t even mention patience.

 

Emotion rules. Must win every game. Scratch that, must win every inning, or heads have to roll.

[dgalehouse]

Last year everything was great . Nothing but seashells and balloons . A ring . A parade . Cora is the greatest ever . In Cora we trust . Etc . , etc. This year was much different . A complacent off season . A lackadaisical spring training . Adversity. Hard times . Struggling starters . Blown saves . No late rallies . A trouncing by our hated arch enemy . Now , some indifferent , uninspired baseball . Through it all , Cora has not come up with anything whatsoever to reverse the disappointing performance . Now , I don't think he should be fired . ( I also don't think Dombrowski should have been fired ) . All that sounds too much like " What have you done for me lately " . But let's at least stop calling Cora the " greatest ". He is just one more manager who is going to have to improve and get better results in the future . The future starts now .

[Bellhorn04]

Shouldn't even be treated as a serious possibility.

[Slasher9]

Jung, don’t you know that logic and reason have no place here? I won’t even mention patience.

 

Emotion rules. Must win every game. Scratch that, must win every inning, or heads have to roll.

 

i tell my 14U kids to win every pitch. so there's that too....

[notin]

It’s easy to be labeled the greatest manager ever when the hitters are all hitting and the pitchers are all pitching well and you don’t even have to manage much....

[sk7326]

Anybody that thinks that 3 of the last 4 titles coming with first timers at the helm justifies making a managerial move, needs to rethink that one IMO. Organizational Chaos is not a strategy. Organizational Chaos is just chaos. We are looking at 3 distinct circumstances here:

- first championship in a zillion years

- perceived steady leadership (Farrell) following chaos (Bobby V), 2013

- a very solid first year for a manager handling a very good team, 2018

 

That was a joke. And of course the first title came after a managerial brain fart led directly to blowing a pennant the year before.

[cp176]

Last year everything was great . Nothing but seashells and balloons . A ring . A parade . Cora is the greatest ever . In Cora we trust . Etc . , etc. This year was much different . A complacent off season . A lackadaisical spring training . Adversity. Hard times . Struggling starters . Blown saves . No late rallies . A trouncing by our hated arch enemy . Now , some indifferent , uninspired baseball . Through it all , Cora has not come up with anything whatsoever to reverse the disappointing performance . Now , I don't think he should be fired . ( I also don't think Dombrowski should have been fired ) . All that sounds too much like " What have you done for me lately " . But let's at least stop calling Cora the " greatest ". He is just one more manager who is going to have to improve and get better results in the future . The future starts now .

 

Did you write this or did i ? lol

[moonslav59]

Last year everything was great . Nothing but seashells and balloons . A ring . A parade . Cora is the greatest ever . In Cora we trust . Etc . , etc. This year was much different . A complacent off season . A lackadaisical spring training . Adversity. Hard times . Struggling starters . Blown saves . No late rallies . A trouncing by our hated arch enemy . Now , some indifferent , uninspired baseball . Through it all , Cora has not come up with anything whatsoever to reverse the disappointing performance . Now , I don't think he should be fired . ( I also don't think Dombrowski should have been fired ) . All that sounds too much like " What have you done for me lately " . But let's at least stop calling Cora the " greatest ". He is just one more manager who is going to have to improve and get better results in the future . The future starts now .

 

I'm certainly rethinking my positioning Cora on the top of my best Sox manager's list, but he's still there with Tito nipping at his heals and Dick Williams pretty far back.

[oldtimer]

Last year everything was great . Nothing but seashells and balloons . A ring . A parade . Cora is the greatest ever . In Cora we trust . Etc . , etc. This year was much different . A complacent off season . A lackadaisical spring training . Adversity. Hard times . Struggling starters . Blown saves . No late rallies . A trouncing by our hated arch enemy . Now , some indifferent , uninspired baseball . Through it all , Cora has not come up with anything whatsoever to reverse the disappointing performance . Now , I don't think he should be fired . ( I also don't think Dombrowski should have been fired ) . All that sounds too much like " What have you done for me lately " . But let's at least stop calling Cora the " greatest ". He is just one more manager who is going to have to improve and get better results in the future . The future starts now .

 

There is such a thing as accountability. I'm not sure that DD was not extended based on being blamed for the mess or based on the recognition a different talent will be needed to buiild the farm and to reset the salary structure. With DD out of the way, who is accountable for the miserable performance put in by the offense during the last 10 games? I don't recommend firing anyone more this year, but there are really only 3 places to look for the offensive struggles.

 

1. Cora with his player rest program and the instability of his lineups. Also possible the players not respoonding to him.

2. Hitting coach is not helping to correct bad habits and game plan appropriately

3. Players getting into a malaise and being disinterested and without energy

 

Those are a few possibilities and the new GM may want to ask questions when he comes in. I think the Sox will go another year with the team, although some players will not be back and I suppose both the pitching and batting coaches will be looked at. I personally am at a loss to pinpoint any one area that could improve the situation.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

i tell my 14U kids to win every pitch. so there's that too....

Illionoisredsox is the kind of poster you just love to piss off.

Btw, WTF is Cora.

Edited September 12, 2019 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[a700hitter]

I'm certainly rethinking my positioning Cora on the top of my best Sox manager's list, but he's still there with Tito nipping at his heals and Dick Williams pretty far back.

Tito blows Cora away.

[cp176]

I'm certainly rethinking my positioning Cora on the top of my best Sox manager's list, but he's still there with Tito nipping at his heals and Dick Williams pretty far back.

 

There is really no way that anyone should have Alex Cora ahead of Dick Williams on any list. Sounds nice and coincides with some trendy American "progressive" thought today but there is a bottom line here. Cora at some point in time may become very good but what he was a part of pales in comparison to what was done in 1967 Based on the way this team looks this year, i feel confident in saying this. i also think that you probably assumed someone like me might respond. That's good! lol

[Slasher9]

Tito is #1.

There can be a debate about #2. But number 1 is locked.

[notin]

Tito blows Cora away.

 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

There is really no way that anyone should have Alex Cora ahead of Dick Williams on any list. Sounds nice and coincides with some trendy American "progressive" thought today but there is a bottom line here. Cora at some point in time may become very good but what he was a part of pales in comparison to what was done in 1967 Based on the way this team looks this year, i feel confident in saying this. i also think that you probably assumed someone like me might respond. That's good! lol

 

Yes, I figured you'd reply and disagree, since you are so anti-progressive (LOL).

 

Dick Williams did a great job in '67, and I have him 3rd on my list. We need more time to judge Cora, but I like his approach, and I find myself disagree with less of his decisions than others. I really liked Tito for a long time, but he lost control of the team. I realize he had side issues going on, and one could argue Cora has of is "losing" this team, but in my opinion, Cora is the best, but it's close.

 

[moonslav59]

Tito is #1.

There can be a debate about #2. But number 1 is locked.

 

Never losing less than 89 games is impressive. Two rings is awesome.

 

Those were some good to great years (2 championships in 8 seasons and 1 first place)

 

I can certainly see why many feel he was the best, but I still like Cora a little more.

[Bellhorn04]

Last year everything was great . Nothing but seashells and balloons . A ring . A parade . Cora is the greatest ever . In Cora we trust . Etc . , etc. This year was much different . A complacent off season . A lackadaisical spring training . Adversity. Hard times . Struggling starters . Blown saves . No late rallies . A trouncing by our hated arch enemy . Now , some indifferent , uninspired baseball . Through it all , Cora has not come up with anything whatsoever to reverse the disappointing performance . Now , I don't think he should be fired . ( I also don't think Dombrowski should have been fired ) . All that sounds too much like " What have you done for me lately " . But let's at least stop calling Cora the " greatest ". He is just one more manager who is going to have to improve and get better results in the future . The future starts now .

 

Denny, you're a reasonable fellow. Let me just point out a couple of things:

 

1) moon is, I'm pretty sure, the only person who said Cora was the greatest, or who said it on a regular basis.

 

2) When he said this he kind of went out on a limb. He likes to make bold statements. It's common behavior on message boards.

 

This whole thing about 'stop calling Cora the greatest' is kind of overblown.

[moonslav59]

Denny, you're a reasonable fellow. Let me just point out a couple of things:

 

1) moon is, I'm pretty sure, the only person who said Cora was the greatest, or who said it on a regular basis.

 

2) When he said this he kind of went out on a limb. He likes to make bold statements. It's common behavior on message boards.

 

This whole thing about 'stop calling Cora the greatest' is kind of overblown.

 

I will add that I don't recall anyone agreeing with my "greatest" opinion.

[illinoisredsox]

There is really no way that anyone should have Alex Cora ahead of Dick Williams on any list. Sounds nice and coincides with some trendy American "progressive" thought today but there is a bottom line here. Cora at some point in time may become very good but what he was a part of pales in comparison to what was done in 1967 Based on the way this team looks this year, i feel confident in saying this. i also think that you probably assumed someone like me might respond. That's good! lol

 

Williams job in 67 was incredible, but he really did nothing with Boston after that and was gone before the 1969 season was over. He really made his mark managing the early 70s Oakland teams.

 

It’s way too early to evaluate Cora. He’s made mistakes this year. But he’s still a second year manager with a lot to learn.

[moonslav59]

Williams job in 67 was incredible, but he really did nothing with Boston after that and was gone before the 1969 season was over. He really made his mark managing the early 70s Oakland teams.

 

It’s way too early to evaluate Cora. He’s made mistakes this year. But he’s still a second year manager with a lot to learn.

 

Yes, and I'm not counting what managers did before or after Boston, so Williams is 3rd in my book.

 

Yes, Cora makes mistakes and so did Tito and every manager.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

If you think Tito is a great manager, it speaks well for your baseball IQ.

 

When I first joined a Sox board in 2007, the thing that shocked me was how many people were ripping him.

[S5Dewey]

If you think Tito is a great manager, it speaks well for your baseball IQ.

 

When I first joined a Sox board in 2007, the thing that shocked me was how many people were ripping him.

 

If there's one thing I've learned about fans it's that when they drop their fanny into their seat there are two things they're sure they can do better than the person who's doing it. They can coach better and they can officiate better.

[Slasher9]

If you think Tito is a great manager, it speaks well for your baseball IQ.

 

When I first joined a Sox board in 2007, the thing that shocked me was how many people were ripping him.

 

yup. and we won the whole dang thing that year too.

tito is the GOAT sox manager.

[Bellhorn04]

If there's one thing I've learned about fans it's that when they drop their fanny into their seat there are two things they're sure they can do better than the person who's doing it. They can coach better and they can officiate better.

 

I would add that they also think they can do a better job than the team's General Manager (or President) with the roster construction.

[moonslav59]

If you think Tito is a great manager, it speaks well for your baseball IQ.

 

When I first joined a Sox board in 2007, the thing that shocked me was how many people were ripping him.

 

Some things bugged me about Tito, but I was very supportive and praised him way more than criticizing him. At the end, I turned, but I was no where near the first.

 

(BTW, I was the last to turn on Booby V.- something I'm not proud of. I turned on Farrell maybe earlier than most.

[notin]

If you think Tito is a great manager, it speaks well for your baseball IQ.

 

When I first joined a Sox board in 2007, the thing that shocked me was how many people were ripping him.

 

Usually there are two reasons a manager gets ripped.

 

1. Hindsight

2. Doing something the accuser would not have done.

[Bellhorn04]

Usually there are two reasons a manager gets ripped.

 

1. Hindsight

2. Doing something the accuser would not have done.

 

Do you remember the '14 games and counting' thread? That was in 2007. Someone went through all the game logs and with perfect 20/20 hindsight found 14 losses with moves or non-moves by Tito that may have cost that particular game. It was a classic.