Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[mvp 78]

My feelings about trying to retain all of - Betts, Benintendi, Bradley, and Bogaerts - are starting to change. If it could be done at a resonalbly competitive cost then maybe. I think that we are likely seeing what Bradley and Bogaerts are going to be going forward. As much as I like them, I think that they quite possibly can be replaced with players of equal talent and value. With Benintendi and Betts I think the jury is still out as to what we might be looking at down the line. If keeping them all comes at the expense of signing players that could help us in other ways and in other areas, it just might not be ultimately worth it.

 

The jury is still out on Betts? He's an MVP caliber player. I sign him even if I can't sign 2 of the other guys.

 

Order of preference:

Betts

Xbo

JBJ (if his bat was more consistent, he'd be #2)

Benintendi (his defense is a big question mark and his track record is smaller at this point)

[cp176]

I think that he is an mvp caliber player as well. What you will specifically get from him year in and year out is the question. He would be my number one to sign as well. As much as I like the rest of the foursome, I would not commit big $ to any of them for some time.

[notin]

People in a pennant race will always overpay for hitting or pitching. Especially if you throw some money into the deal.

 

Yes but the only teams that might be interested in Hanley would be contending teams. A team in contention isn't going to trade a hitter for Hanley. Not a hitter we want anyway.

 

Basically this proposal was that the Sox need to trade Hanley for a hitter better than Hanley. That's not going to happen. ..

[notin]

The jury is still out on Betts? He's an MVP caliber player. I sign him even if I can't sign 2 of the other guys.

 

Order of preference:

Betts

Xbo

JBJ (if his bat was more consistent, he'd be #2)

Benintendi (his defense is a big question mark and his track record is smaller at this point)

 

I would argue Bogaerts is the most expendable. He has the least control and his defense at short is more suspect than Benintendi's is in left...

[notin]

1. Call up Devers and demote Marrero.

2. Make a trade for Todd Frazier, assuming the White Sox don't want the moon. Chavis and Ockimey? Frazier is really the smart choice because he could take over for either Devers or Moreland if needed to.

3. Add a bullpen arm. Not Robertson. Hopefully we finally see Carson Smith, but what does anyone really expect from a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in 16 months.

4. A depth starter might not be a bad way to go. I'd hate to see a meaningful September game started by Hector Velasquez or Doug Fister. This isn't an urgent need now. But if the White Sox want Brian Johnson for Frazier, it could escalate. ...

[mvp 78]

I would argue Bogaerts is the most expendable. He has the least control and his defense at short is more suspect than Benintendi's is in left...

 

You can make a case for any of the other guys to be at 2. I put Bogey there because he has a slightly longer track record than JBJ and has succeeded when hitting at the top of the lineup, while Beni and JBJ seem better suited 5-9. I wish Bogey's defense was better, but it's not bad enough that will move him off position any time soon.

[Hugh2]

I would argue Bogaerts is the most expendable. He has the least control and his defense at short is more suspect than Benintendi's is in left...

 

Bogaerts strikes me as the type of guy who may not be as valuable as JBJ or Betts right now but might end up having the longer career. I can see him as the guy who develops power later in his career and becomes a 30/100 guy. But then again, he could be the guy who is what he is and gets way overpaid because he's a Boras client.

 

out of the big 4, I do think you have to try and sign at least 2 of them and trade 1-2 during their last year to help replenish the farm. Which I'm sure won't happen if (and shouldn't) if we are in contention.

[moonslav59]

What prospect could the Red Sox land for Hanley Ramirez, who has posted 0.1 fWAR this year on his annual salary of $22 million?

 

The Sox would likely need to add a prospect to offset the negative value of Ramirez.

 

I meant to write HRam + cash for a prospect.

 

Also, I never said I was for the idea. I was responding to some other poster.

 

I am not for trading HRam. I think he will do better here on out and should bat 4th or 5th.

[mvp 78]

1. Call up Devers and demote Marrero.

2. Make a trade for Todd Frazier, assuming the White Sox don't want the moon. Chavis and Ockimey? Frazier is really the smart choice because he could take over for either Devers or Moreland if needed to.

3. Add a bullpen arm. Not Robertson. Hopefully we finally see Carson Smith, but what does anyone really expect from a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in 16 months.

4. A depth starter might not be a bad way to go. I'd hate to see a meaningful September game started by Hector Velasquez or Doug Fister. This isn't an urgent need now. But if the White Sox want Brian Johnson for Frazier, it could escalate. ...

 

Call up Devers AND trade for Frazier? Why call up Devers if you're just going to plop him on the bench? If he's called up, you start him from day 1. If you are worried about control, you wait until September.

[moonslav59]

The jury is still out on Betts? He's an MVP caliber player. I sign him even if I can't sign 2 of the other guys.

 

Order of preference:

Betts

Xbo

JBJ (if his bat was more consistent, he'd be #2)

Benintendi (his defense is a big question mark and his track record is smaller at this point)

 

Look at the numbers. Other than JBJ's horrific start to his career, he's been more consistent and better than Bogey at the plate. He's also a much better defender.

 

1) Betts

2) JBJ

3) Beni

4) Bogey

[notin]

Call up Devers AND trade for Frazier? Why call up Devers if you're just going to plop him on the bench? If he's called up, you start him from day 1. If you are worried about control, you wait until September.

 

Actually I would plop Moreland on the bench in that scenario. If Devers struggled mightily, then Frazier could replace him at third...

[Hugh2]

Actually I would plop Moreland on the bench in that scenario. If Devers struggled mightily, then Frazier could replace him at third...

 

I was thinking the same thing, can't Frazier play 1B too? Moreland seems to be coming back down to earth and his defense has not been as advertised.

 

I'd honestly be more comfortable with Hanley at 1B at this point if he can give us what he did last year there.

[OH FOY]

Johnson pitches good tonight and Chavis is holding his own at Double AA, in fact I think he's starting to get it both might be valuable Trade Pcs. At this point you want to keep the Lower level arms.

[Hugh2]

Yes but the only teams that might be interested in Hanley would be contending teams. A team in contention isn't going to trade a hitter for Hanley. Not a hitter we want anyway.

 

Basically this proposal was that the Sox need to trade Hanley for a hitter better than Hanley. That's not going to happen. ..

 

Good point, I think in some scenario in which we trade Hanley to strengthen the big league club would likely have to involve a 3rd team.

[OH FOY]

Another thing Sox are on the Clock, if the Rays make a move to strengthen their BP, they will be tough, going forward. They have the Starters.

[mvp 78]

Look at the numbers. Other than JBJ's horrific start to his career, he's been more consistent and better than Bogey at the plate. He's also a much better defender.

 

1) Betts

2) JBJ

3) Beni

4) Bogey

 

I did look at the numbers.

 

Career WAR:

XBo 12.1

JBJ 9.4

 

Since 4/1/16:

XBo 7.3

JBJ 6.7

[jad]

I have difficulty following collective narratives that advocate giving up on players with All-Star credentials while seeing a .210 hitter as the team's salvation. But then, I have been a RS fan since the 50s and none of this should come as a surprise.

[Hugh2]

I have difficulty following collective narratives that advocate giving up on players with All-Star credentials while seeing a .210 hitter as the team's salvation. But then, I have been a RS fan since the 50s and none of this should come as a surprise.

 

 

Pablo Sandoval was an all star once. Sometimes it's good to give up on players.

[Emp9]

Bogaerts strikes me as the type of guy who may not be as valuable as JBJ or Betts right now but might end up having the longer career. I can see him as the guy who develops power later in his career and becomes a 30/100 guy. But then again, he could be the guy who is what he is and gets way overpaid because he's a Boras client.

 

out of the big 4, I do think you have to try and sign at least 2 of them and trade 1-2 during their last year to help replenish the farm. Which I'm sure won't happen if (and shouldn't) if we are in contention.

 

This is what I've been thinking for a while now. Winning a championship may take the pressure off too, in regards to trying to keep them all (nice thought, i know). Beni is too far away to worry about right now tho and I find XB the most expendable if there's a good defensive SS to be had for cheaper when the time comes. It's one of the only ways to stay young and competitive for us in the coming years and it becomes less of a hard choice when we all know we can't keep them all when Free Agency comes knocking at the door.

[Bellhorn04]

I have difficulty following collective narratives that advocate giving up on players with All-Star credentials while seeing a .210 hitter as the team's salvation. But then, I have been a RS fan since the 50s and none of this should come as a surprise.

 

Who's giving up on who???

[moonslav59]

I did look at the numbers.

 

Career WAR:

XBo 12.1

JBJ 9.4

 

Since 4/1/16:

XBo 7.3

JBJ 6.7

 

I meant about consistency. I cherry-picked the start time, but here it is:

 

OPS by half-seasons

JBJ/Bogey

2nd 2015: .891/.803

1st 2016: .926/.863

2nd 2016: .728/.729

1st 2017: .853/.815

 

By Month (60+ PAs)

8/15: 1.163/.761

9/15: .739/.876

4/16: .807/.785

5/16: 1.175/1.017

6/16: .805/.815

7/16: .839/.830

8/16: .651/.599

9/16: .731/.750

4/17 .596/.731

5/17 .808/.949

6/17: 1.009/.763

 

I don't see much difference here, but I'll take JBJ's offense over Bogey's since Aug 2015. I'll take his defense, too.

 

My guess is JBJ has been about as consistent or more so than most in MLB since AUG 2015.

 

2015-2017 (note PA differential)

Bogey (1744) OBP .355 / SLG .434 (.789 OPS) wRC+ 110/wOBA .342

J.B.Jr. (1204) OBP .346 / SLG .483 (.829 OPS) wRC+ 117/wOBA .352

 

UZR/150

Bogey -0.1 SS

J.B.Jr. +4.1 CF (+55.1 LF & +20.7 RF)

 

[mvp 78]

JBJ is far from consistent. He is a feast or famine guy. We've seen it just this year. He'll have a molten hot month and then disappear. Remember earlier this year when everyone wanted to trade him?

[sk7326]

Call up Devers AND trade for Frazier? Why call up Devers if you're just going to plop him on the bench? If he's called up, you start him from day 1. If you are worried about control, you wait until September.

 

If the idea is trade for Frazier to solve FIRST BASE - that makes more sense

[sk7326]

I meant about consistency. I cherry-picked the start time, but here it is:

 

OPS by half-seasons

JBJ/Bogey

2nd 2015: .891/.803

1st 2016: .926/.863

2nd 2016: .728/.729

1st 2017: .853/.815

 

By Month (60+ PAs)

8/15: 1.163/.761

9/15: .739/.876

4/16: .807/.785

5/16: 1.175/1.017

6/16: .805/.815

7/16: .839/.830

8/16: .651/.599

9/16: .731/.750

4/17 .596/.731

5/17 .808/.949

6/17: 1.009/.763

 

I don't see much difference here, but I'll take JBJ's offense over Bogey's since Aug 2015. I'll take his defense, too.

 

My guess is JBJ has been about as consistent or more so than most in MLB since AUG 2015.

 

2015-2017 (note PA differential)

Bogey (1744) OBP .355 / SLG .434 (.789 OPS) wRC+ 110/wOBA .342

J.B.Jr. (1204) OBP .346 / SLG .483 (.829 OPS) wRC+ 117/wOBA .352

 

UZR/150

Bogey -0.1 SS

J.B.Jr. +4.1 CF (+55.1 LF & +20.7 RF)

 

 

Similar production premium positions and Bradley is 2.5 years older

[sk7326]

Priority?

 

1. Betts - He is a legitimate top 10-15 player. He won't be 25 until October

2. Bogaerts - A 3 or 4 win shortstop whose career is looking more like Derek Jeter than A-Rod ... which is fine. He won't be 25 until October

3. Benintendi - Still on rookie deal, has handled aggressive promotion well.

4. Bradley - He's been good! But his production is peaks and valleys - always is. Excellent defender. But he is the most dispensible of the 4 Bs and if you can make a needle moving deal, then yeah you move him and figure it out.

[WVRedSoxFan]

Def don't wanna see Hanley Ramirez in the lineup next year.

[mvp 78]

Def don't wanna see Hanley Ramirez in the lineup next year.

 

DFA Hanley in the offseason. Sign Smoak/Cruz/Gattis as a FA?

[harmony]

I have difficulty following collective narratives that advocate giving up on players with All-Star credentials while seeing a .210 hitter as the team's salvation. But then, I have been a RS fan since the 50s and none of this should come as a surprise.

Citing batting average instead of on-base percentage evokes the 1950s.

[harmony]

DFA Hanley in the offseason. Sign Smoak/Cruz/Gattis as a FA?

Nelson Cruz remains under team control through the 2018 season.

[Emp9]

Citing batting average instead of on-base percentage evokes the 1950s.

 

I guess we could try to walk in the winning run every game, but I have my doubts on that being a sound strategy. It worked this past weekend. whooopi!!!!