Farrell

[oldtimer]

 

No issue with sending Holt. Betances has a high leg kick, he should be relatively easy to run on. Sanchez made a perfect throw.

 

One thing I'd like to see is more feet first sliding. One of the reasons Holt was out was that Gregorious was blocking forcing Holt to go around him diving in. Go in feet first and infielders might stop blocking bases so often.

 

JBJ is up with a runner on first and one out, with the top of the order to follow. JBJ gets a hit, Holt to third one out. Top of the order only needs a fly ball to score him. JBJ strikes out you can send him with two outs. JBJ hits into a double play, its over. I would not have risked getting the second out there.

[Maxbialystock]

 

JBJ is up with a runner on first and one out, with the top of the order to follow. JBJ gets a hit, Holt to third one out. Top of the order only needs a fly ball to score him. JBJ strikes out you can send him with two outs. JBJ hits into a double play, its over. I would not have risked getting the second out there.

 

Your "top of the order" --Nunez, Betts, and Benintendi--were 1 for 12 with 4 K's. The best chance for driving in Holt was JBJ and Holt needed to get to 2b to help make that happen. Plus it was a great throw--just to the right of the bag a tad below waist high, which made the tag much easier. Aggressive baserunning was what got us our first two runs off of three singles.

 

I'm kind of biased against Holt, so I might not have sent him; but it was a reasonable call (by Holt or by Farrell).

[Maxbialystock]

Last night our ace gave up 4 runs on 2 dingers and was saved by a great catch by JBJ and a good one by Benintendi, and our first 6 hitters went 2 for 22 with no rbi's and 1 run scored. The bottom part of the order had all 3 rbi's, 2 from singles and aggressive baserunning and 1 from Devers's dinger.

 

But the story of the game ain't about that. Nope. It's about questioning Holt's attempt to steal 2d in the bottom of the 9th. Go figure.

[Maxbialystock]

How do you come up with that? I'm not sure there is an easy way to figure out games that were lost due to this base running philosophy. It is easier to point out specific game winning occurrences but how do you come up with a calculation of lost opportunities to score more runs? How many games might have turned out differently if they had not run into outs on the bases?

 

Kimmi has previously cited stats that measure the overall effectiveness of a team's running game.

 

Did you not notice that last night our first two runs came on aggressive baserunning and 3 scratch singles? Ditto JBJ scoring from 1st on a double off the green monster which in some instances has held doubles to singles if the leftfielder players it right?

 

It is not boneheaded to take risks and more boneheaded sometimes to play it safe and not try to get that extra base. When your team is ranked 27th in dingers and 10th in runs scored, aggressive baserunning seems to me to make sense. Boneheaded is failing to tag up on a fly, running on a catchable fly with just one out, much of what HanRam does (but isn't doing much these days), getting picked off at 1b (but not always), etc.

[notin]

How do you come up with that? I'm not sure there is an easy way to figure out games that were lost due to this base running philosophy. It is easier to point out specific game winning occurrences but how do you come up with a calculation of lost opportunities to score more runs? How many games might have turned out differently if they had not run into outs on the bases?

 

 

There's a two way street. You also need to figure out how many extra wins, and yes there are some.

 

The team that has run into the second most outs on the bases is Houston, whose offense boasts 3 MVP candidates. If the Sox had that type of firepower, I could see questioning their baserunning. But they don't, and the aggressive baserunning might be doing more good than you realize. And focusing on the outs as stupidity while ignoring the safe plays doesn't change this...

[Bellhorn04]

People sometimes forget how close Dave Roberts came to getting thrown out in 2004. It was so close that a bad umpiring call could have ruined everything. It was a clutch call by that ump.

[oldtimer]

Last night our ace gave up 4 runs on 2 dingers and was saved by a great catch by JBJ and a good one by Benintendi, and our first 6 hitters went 2 for 22 with no rbi's and 1 run scored. The bottom part of the order had all 3 rbi's, 2 from singles and aggressive baserunning and 1 from Devers's dinger.

 

But the story of the game ain't about that. Nope. It's about questioning Holt's attempt to steal 2d in the bottom of the 9th. Go figure.

 

Good baseball is still worth discussing. The play with Holt was not good baseball.

[Bellhorn04]

Good baseball is still worth discussing. The play with Holt was not good baseball.

 

I think it was a totally defensible call sending Holt there.

[mvp 78]

I think it was a totally defensible call sending Holt there.

 

He's a .500 basestealer. I think they need a better pinch running option off the bench if they want to do that.

[mvp 78]

Roberts: great baserunner, send him

 

Holt: meh

[Bellhorn04]

He's a .500 basestealer. I think they need a better pinch running option off the bench if they want to do that.

 

He was 26 out of 32 in his career before that. He may be slower these days, but that's a different question.

[mvp 78]

He was 26 out of 32 in his career before that. He may be slower these days, but that's a different question.

 

He's 5 and 4 the last 2 years. The rest is history pal.

[Bellhorn04]

He's 5 and 4 the last 2 years. The rest is history pal.

 

The Recency Effect.

[mvp 78]

The Recency Effect.

 

The "players are aging" effect.

 

We're not talking about SSS. Baserunning is a skill. Speed can deteriorate over time.

 

I'm fine with the call, but Sox need a better option off the bench imo.

[Bellhorn04]

The "players are aging" effect.

 

We're not talking about SSS. Baserunning is a skill. Speed can deteriorate over time.

 

Holt is only 29, and the team should know if he's lost some speed. If he has, then yes it was probably a bad call.

[OH FOY]

I cant remember what was the count on JBJ when they sent Holt? Sometimes hit and runs are better choices than a straight out steal. Edited August 20, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Maxbialystock]

I cant remember what was the count on JBJ when they sent Holt?

 

2-0 count, and that third pitch was also a ball. It's possible JBJ missed a hit and run signal, but I think we would have heard that by now.

[OH FOY]

WOW! Those are not counts, that usually you'll run on, you usually put a hit and run, to protect the runner, and hitter should get a good pitch. Get the Defense moving around. Edited August 20, 2017 by OH FOY!

[notin]

He's a .500 basestealer. I think they need a better pinch running option off the bench if they want to do that.

 

 

Curse Farrell for not acquiring Rajai Davis mid-game!!

[Bellhorn04]

Curse Farrell for not acquiring Rajai Davis mid-game!!

 

Now that you mention it...thanks Dave!

[Kimmi]

I'm talking stupid plays like forgetting how many outs there are, trying to take 3B with no outs, not watching the runner in front of you hold up on the base you're heading towards, and so on...

 

Being aggressive is not stupid. Being way over aggressive often is.

 

I get that. I know that there have been some obviously stupid base running plays. Being aggressive versus being 'way over aggressive' is a very subjective distinction. I'm just saying that, as fans, we tend to call plays stupid when they result in outs even when they weren't stupid.

[Kimmi]

No issue with sending Holt. Betances has a high leg kick, he should be relatively easy to run on. Sanchez made a perfect throw.

 

One thing I'd like to see is more feet first sliding. One of the reasons Holt was out was that Gregorious was blocking forcing Holt to go around him diving in. Go in feet first and infielders might stop blocking bases so often.

 

I also had no problem with Holt attempting a steal against Betances. It didn't work out this time, but it's a risk you take if you're going to be an 'aggressive baserunning team'.

[Kimmi]

How do you come up with that? I'm not sure there is an easy way to figure out games that were lost due to this base running philosophy. It is easier to point out specific game winning occurrences but how do you come up with a calculation of lost opportunities to score more runs? How many games might have turned out differently if they had not run into outs on the bases?

 

There are cumulative base running stats to measure these things.

 

One of the problems with saying that a particular out on the bases just cost us the game is that there is no way of knowing what might have happened if that out had not been made. We might have lost the game anyway. Therefore, you cannot look at an individual instance and statistically say that play just cost us the game.

[Kimmi]

There's a two way street. You also need to figure out how many extra wins, and yes there are some.

 

The team that has run into the second most outs on the bases is Houston, whose offense boasts 3 MVP candidates. If the Sox had that type of firepower, I could see questioning their baserunning. But they don't, and the aggressive baserunning might be doing more good than you realize. And focusing on the outs as stupidity while ignoring the safe plays doesn't change this...

 

I think it is human nature to remember the outs and not so much the successful attempts.

 

The Astros have cost their team nearly 2 wins in bad baserunning. They are 3rd worst in baseball behind the Phillies and the Mariners.

 

What has hurt the Red Sox more than anything in terms of baserunning is the GIDPs.

[Kimmi]

Curse Farrell for not acquiring Rajai Davis mid-game!!

 

Perhaps there is something to the idea of signing Usain Bolt, just for that purpose?

[Bellhorn04]

Perhaps there is something to the idea of signing Usain Bolt, just for that purpose?

 

Did you see our brilliant discussion on Herb Washington?

[Kimmi]

Did you see our brilliant discussion on Herb Washington?

 

Of course I did. I read all of your brilliant discussions.

[moonslav59]

Not only is playing .499 OPS guy Holt dead wrong, batting him lead-off is criminal.

 

JF should be locked up.

 

That being said, watch Holt go 3 for 5 today.

[Nick]

Not only is playing .499 OPS guy Holt dead wrong, batting him lead-off is criminal.

 

JF should be locked up.

 

That being said, watch Holt go 3 for 5 today.

 

I suggested on Game Thread that we take automatic out every time he is due up. That will speed up the game. Today that's automatic 5 outs. Shave off 15 minutes.

[moonslav59]

I suggested on Game Thread that we take automatic out every time he is due up. That will speed up the game. Today that's automatic 5 outs. Shave off 15 minutes.

 

LOL

 

He might be able to hit some foul balls and drive up the pitch count.