Farrell

[moonslav59]

Holt is fine on the roster. I think they just need to bring Lin up and drop one of their relievers. Having 13 pitchers is overkill imo.

 

If Moreland aand HRam are both unable to play 1B, then maybe Travis needs to be called up.

 

Lin can probably wait until Sept 1st.

[Spudboy]

That assumes imbeciles have the ability to reason.

 

Even if Moreland is hurt, HRam could have played 1B and Young could play vs the RHP as the DH. Young has done pretty well vs RHPs this year, and even his 2-3 year numbers vs RHPs compare favorably with Holt's over the last 2-3 years.

 

Yet you did not answer my question.

 

Okay.

[moonslav59]

Is it that Farrell has reason that you may not be aware of?

 

Probably. My question was a bit facetious, especially the "infatuation" choice.

 

We all know he's not playing him because of his offensive or defensive skills.

 

I guess the "playing him, so we can see if he deserves to be DFA'd or not" excuse is about the best I've heard, so far.

 

Maybe there's an unknown reason Young is not being allowed to play more.

 

Nobody on this site knows everything going on behind closed doors, but we give our opinions anyways based on what we know or believe.

[oldtimer]

The Sept 1st call up is still 10 days away and in those ten days we are playing American league teams, so it makes sense to make a player move now to try to plug our weakness with a utility infielder. I heard Pedey is doing well, but I don't expect him back in those ten days. Its a tough stretch with games daily so cutting back to 12 pitches could put some pressure on unless we are willing to shuttle some back and forth.

 

In looking at what teams typically do on Sept 1st, we can add any person from the 40 man roster but typically teams don't add too many (3 to 5) until the AAA minor league season closes. An exception last year was the Cubbies who added 8 players on Sept 1st and then 2 more later on. I think Brentz, Lin and Travis would make sense for us along with a couple of BP arms.

[moonslav59]

The Sept 1st call up is still 10 days away and in those ten days we are playing American league teams, so it makes sense to make a player move now to try to plug our weakness with a utility infielder. I heard Pedey is doing well, but I don't expect him back in those ten days. Its a tough stretch with games daily so cutting back to 12 pitches could put some pressure on unless we are willing to shuttle some back and forth.

 

In looking at what teams typically do on Sept 1st, we can add any person from the 40 man roster but typically teams don't add too many (3 to 5) until the AAA minor league season closes. An exception last year was the Cubbies who added 8 players on Sept 1st and then 2 more later on. I think Brentz, Lin and Travis would make sense for us along with a couple of BP arms.

 

Yes, but they'll have to DFA someone (Selsky?) to add Brentz to the 40 man roster.

 

DFA Selsky and add Brentz.

 

I could see 7 or 8...

 

Add to MLB team roster on Sept 1st:

Brentz

(Assume Velazques stays for Barnes)

Lin

Marrero

Travis

Butler or Swihart

Carson Smith

Boyer

Maddox

Maybe Beeks or Johnson

 

[oldtimer]

Yes, but they'll have to DFA someone (Selsky?) to add Brentz to the 40 man roster.

 

DFA Selsky and add Brentz.

 

I could see 7 or 8...

 

Add to MLB team roster on Sept 1st:

Brentz

(Assume Velazques stays for Barnes)

Lin

Marrero

Travis

Butler or Swihart

Carson Smith

Boyer

Maddox

Maybe Beeks or Johnson

 

 

Yes, they need to get Brentz on the 40 man and your suggestion is a good one. Early on they can also use Lin and Travis who could actually get some burn right now, especially until Pedey comes back. Carson Smith if he is ready (don't think he is quite there yet) and Maddox might also help. Furher additions like a catcher to give Leon a little rest might help only when we have secured our spot. I doubt if that will occur early in September. If we caan hold Cleveland off and get home field advantage it is worth playing our top guys right until the end of season.

[illinoisredsox]

Yes, but they'll have to DFA someone (Selsky?) to add Brentz to the 40 man roster.

 

DFA Selsky and add Brentz.

 

I could see 7 or 8...

 

Add to MLB team roster on Sept 1st:

Brentz

(Assume Velazques stays for Barnes)

Lin

Marrero

Travis

Butler or Swihart

Carson Smith

Boyer

Maddox

Maybe Beeks or Johnson

 

 

They will have to DFA somebody to put Smith on the 40 man as well (he's still on the 60-day DL, which means he doesn't count towards the 40 man). Probably Owens or Elias will go. Beeks would require a release as well.

 

3rd catcher would probably be Swihart, since he is on the 40 man and Butler is not.

[moonslav59]

Yes, they need to get Brentz on the 40 man and your suggestion is a good one. Early on they can also use Lin and Travis who could actually get some burn right now, especially until Pedey comes back. Carson Smith if he is ready (don't think he is quite there yet) and Maddox might also help. Furher additions like a catcher to give Leon a little rest might help only when we have secured our spot. I doubt if that will occur early in September. If we caan hold Cleveland off and get home field advantage it is worth playing our top guys right until the end of season.

 

One major reason to add a third catcher, is that it allows a manager to more freely PH for the starting catcher, although the way Vaz is hitting, we may not want or need to do that too often.

[illinoisredsox]

Yes, they need to get Brentz on the 40 man and your suggestion is a good one. Early on they can also use Lin and Travis who could actually get some burn right now, especially until Pedey comes back. Carson Smith if he is ready (don't think he is quite there yet) and Maddox might also help. Furher additions like a catcher to give Leon a little rest might help only when we have secured our spot. I doubt if that will occur early in September. If we caan hold Cleveland off and get home field advantage it is worth playing our top guys right until the end of season.

 

Smith should stay at Pawtucket as long as possible (their season ends on Labor Day); he's still in spring training for all practical purposes. I think that is the plan. 30 days is the maximum rehab assignment for pitchers and Smith was sent to Pawtucket on his rehab on August 6 (exactly 30 days before the end of the AAA season).

[illinoisredsox]

One major reason to add a third catcher, is that it allows a manager to more freely PH for the starting catcher, although the way Vaz is hitting, we may not want or need to do that too often.

 

PH may not be required, but with Lin and Marrero up, it would certainly allow for PR if need be (especially for Leon).

[moonslav59]

They will have to DFA somebody to put Smith on the 40 man as well (he's still on the 60-day DL, which means he doesn't count towards the 40 man). Probably Owens or Elias will go. Beeks would require a release as well.

 

3rd catcher would probably be Swihart, since he is on the 40 man and Butler is not.

 

I don't disagree, and I understand why management has held off releasing anybody until they NEED to, but with some rule 5 guys needing to be added in November, it's getting close to the time where we need to clear some dead space off the 40 man roster.

 

Yes, Someone has to go to take Smith off the 60 day DL, and if we want to add Brentz, we'll need to drop someone else. Of course, the rule 5 needs are secondary right now, so we need to look at who is on the 40 man roster than may not provide any assets this year, and who does not look to be an asset going forward as well. Some of the players I listed below may be too good to DFA, and we could trade for a prospect not needing to be on the 40 man roster this year or next. Here's a list of possible 40 man roster casualties by September first or by rule 5 time.

Henry Owens (add Beeks or Butler)

Steve Selsky (add Brentz or Butler)

Josh Rutledge (on 60 DL, so does not open a new slot by DFA'ing him)

Blaine Boyer?

 

Possible trade (most likely after the season but before rule 5 time):

Brock Holt

Roenis Elias (1 option)

Hembree (out of options and a crowded 2018 bullpen)

R Ross (still has 2 options)

Kyle Martin (3 options)

Hector Velazquez (3)

Marrero (1 option)

 

[moonslav59]

PH may not be required, but with Lin and Marrero up, it would certainly allow for PR if need be (especially for Leon).

 

Good point.

[moonslav59]

Smith should stay at Pawtucket as long as possible (their season ends on Labor Day); he's still in spring training for all practical purposes. I think that is the plan. 30 days is the maximum rehab assignment for pitchers and Smith was sent to Pawtucket on his rehab on August 6 (exactly 30 days before the end of the AAA season).

 

Does a 60 day DL guy need to be on the active 40 man roster by September 1st to qualify for the playoff rosters?

 

I know he's on the 40 man roster now, but what's the rule here?

[Maxbialystock]

Probably. My question was a bit facetious, especially the "infatuation" choice.

 

We all know he's not playing him because of his offensive or defensive skills.

 

I guess the "playing him, so we can see if he deserves to be DFA'd or not" excuse is about the best I've heard, so far.

 

Maybe there's an unknown reason Young is not being allowed to play more.

 

Nobody on this site knows everything going on behind closed doors, but we give our opinions anyways based on what we know or believe.

 

Honestly, I fine it hard to believe they are playing Holt mostly to see if he is a keeper. Not in a pennant race in the middle of August and not against the Yankees--whom we lead by 4.5 for the AL East--or the Guardians, whom we lead by 2.5 for the second best record in the AL. For now Holt serves a useful purpose because of his versatility, especially when Farrell is carrying 13 pitchers and has infielders who are out (Pedroia) or hurting. I agree he is master of none of the positions he plays and that his hitting this year is very subpar.

 

Nevertheless I disagree that he is a liability when he is on the field. Here's why. Since he resumed playing on July 16, he has played in 29 games during which the Sox were 18-11, a winning percentage of .620 vs. the .576 the Sox have for the season to date. I also looked at his game log for those 29 games and specifically at the losses by 1 or 2 runs when one can presume a single hitter could have made a real difference. There have been six games the Sox lost by 1 or 2 runs in which Holt played. Of those six, he actually contributed to the offense with one or more hits or rbi's, or he had 0 at bats and was probably a pinch runner or defender. The single game when it is fair to say Holt had an adverse effect on the outcome was Monday's 5-4 loss in which he was 0 for 4 and committed that error (which I also think was a tough play). I did not charge him with the 4-3 loss to the Yankees when he was a pinch runner and was caught stealing on a 2-0 count with JBJ at the plate because I believe Farrell had called for a hit and run--2-0 count is ideal for that--that JBJ missed. Plus it was a close play even though Holt is not that good a base stealer.

 

I agree completely with what you said about our not knowing what is being decided behind closed doors and that all we can offer is our opinion, and I certainly respect yours. But I also disagree for the reasons stated above. DFA might be a consideration, but in August in a pennant race there has to be a better reason for playing Holt. Interestingly, he only missed one game in the 16 games he was active for in July. In August, he has not played in 5 of 18 games. This is mostly because Devers and Nunez have been added to the roster, both are infielder, and both can hit.

[illinoisredsox]

Does a 60 day DL guy need to be on the active 40 man roster by September 1st to qualify for the playoff rosters?

 

I know he's on the 40 man roster now, but what's the rule here?

 

According to this, no, so long as he is in the organization.

Per Major League Baseball's collective bargaining agreement, players must meet certain criteria in order to be eligible for postseason play.

 

Players must be on the 40-man roster, the 60-day disabled list or the bereavement/family medical emergency list as of midnight ET on Aug. 31 to be eligible for their respective clubs' postseason rosters. Consequently, players that are acquired via September trades or signed as free agents in September are ineligible for postseason play.

 

Clubs can petition the Commissioner's Office to add any player that was not on the 40-man roster as of Aug. 31 -- provided the player was in the organization on Aug. 31 and is replacing a player who has spent at least 60 days on the 60-day disabled list. The Royals were able to use this tactic to add Brandon Finnegan to their roster during the 2014 postseason, despite the fact that Finnegan was not on the 40-man roster as of Aug. 31.

 

Additionally, all players who have served part of a suspension for performance-enhancing drugs in a given season are ineligible for postseason play that year.

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/postseason-eligibility

[moonslav59]

Honestly, I fine it hard to believe they are playing Holt mostly to see if he is a keeper. Not in a pennant race in the middle of August and not against the Yankees--whom we lead by 4.5 for the AL East--or the Guardians, whom we lead by 2.5 for the second best record in the AL. For now Holt serves a useful purpose because of his versatility, especially when Farrell is carrying 13 pitchers and has infielders who are out (Pedroia) or hurting. I agree he is master of none of the positions he plays and that his hitting this year is very subpar.

 

Nevertheless I disagree that he is a liability when he is on the field. Here's why. Since he resumed playing on July 16, he has played in 29 games during which the Sox were 18-11, a winning percentage of .620 vs. the .576 the Sox have for the season to date. I also looked at his game log for those 29 games and specifically at the losses by 1 or 2 runs when one can presume a single hitter could have made a real difference. There have been six games the Sox lost by 1 or 2 runs in which Holt played. Of those six, he actually contributed to the offense with one or more hits or rbi's, or he had 0 at bats and was probably a pinch runner or defender. The single game when it is fair to say Holt had an adverse effect on the outcome was Monday's 5-4 loss in which he was 0 for 4 and committed that error (which I also think was a tough play). I did not charge him with the 4-3 loss to the Yankees when he was a pinch runner and was caught stealing on a 2-0 count with JBJ at the plate because I believe Farrell had called for a hit and run--2-0 count is ideal for that--that JBJ missed. Plus it was a close play even though Holt is not that good a base stealer.

 

I agree completely with what you said about our not knowing what is being decided behind closed doors and that all we can offer is our opinion, and I certainly respect yours. But I also disagree for the reasons stated above. DFA might be a consideration, but in August in a pennant race there has to be a better reason for playing Holt. Interestingly, he only missed one game in the 16 games he was active for in July. In August, he has not played in 5 of 18 games. This is mostly because Devers and Nunez have been added to the roster, both are infielder, and both can hit.

 

I don't think they will DFA Holt or are thinking about it. I just said that's the best excuse I've heard.

 

I get the "versatility" argument, and on a team with 13 pitchers AND HRam as a near DH only player, he deserves to be on the 25 man roster over Lin or Marrero.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the "liability" in the field point. I think he is slightly sub-standard on defense everywhere but maybe 2B.

 

My issue is with Holt starting so much, and Holt leading off or batting 2nd 5 times this year. He's clearly the worst non pitcher/catcher hitter on the team.

 

Keeping Holt on the bench actually maximizes the versatility aspect of his skill set. For example, starting Young and having Holt on the bench allos JF much more leeway on what he wants to do during the game, in terms of PH'ing or defensive substitutions. Holt offer more choices.

 

Lastly, there was a time Holt was the best sub we had on the 40 man roster at several positions, That's just not true anymore- for various reasons, not all having to do with Holt's decline and injury-related issues.

 

I any non-catcher goes on the DL, I'd prefer these players to Holt for a 10+ game stretch:

 

1B: HRam or Moreland (with Young DH), Travis

2B: Nunez, Hernandez, Marrero/Lin/Holt tied

3B: Nunez, Hernandez, Marrero/Lin tied, then Holt

SS: Nunez, Hernandez, Lin, Marrero then Holt

OF: Young, maybe add Brentz, then Holt

 

Maybe JF is hoping Holt can be like he was that all star season. That's probably the correct answer, but you touched on what's bothering me: we're in a playoff race now. It's not a time for experimenting. I realize Holt is out of options, and there was only so long they could push the whole "rehab" stint on the farm. I'm fine with Holt being on the 25 man roster. I'd go to 12 pitchers soon, and avoid starting Holt at just about all costs.

 

When he does start, never bat him 1-6 or 7, let alone 1-2. Forget the comfort level of current players and their accustomed slots. We have no accustomed slots for anyone this year.

 

[moonslav59]

According to this, no, so long as he is in the organization.

Per Major League Baseball's collective bargaining agreement, players must meet certain criteria in order to be eligible for postseason play.

 

Players must be on the 40-man roster, the 60-day disabled list or the bereavement/family medical emergency list as of midnight ET on Aug. 31 to be eligible for their respective clubs' postseason rosters. Consequently, players that are acquired via September trades or signed as free agents in September are ineligible for postseason play.

 

Clubs can petition the Commissioner's Office to add any player that was not on the 40-man roster as of Aug. 31 -- provided the player was in the organization on Aug. 31 and is replacing a player who has spent at least 60 days on the 60-day disabled list. The Royals were able to use this tactic to add Brandon Finnegan to their roster during the 2014 postseason, despite the fact that Finnegan was not on the 40-man roster as of Aug. 31.

 

Additionally, all players who have served part of a suspension for performance-enhancing drugs in a given season are ineligible for postseason play that year.

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/postseason-eligibility

 

Thanks. That's good news. No need to rush CSmith.

[a700hitter]

All the hand-wringing over a super-sub guy like Holt is perplexing. There is no big upgrade in the organization that is reliable that overcomes his versatility. He is a bench guy. If he was as good as a starter, he would be a starter. He's a solid pro, and when he is in the lineup giving someone a rest, I am not pulling out my hair. I pull my hair out as our runners run into ridiculous outs on the bases and when our LF doesn't know where or when to throw a ball. Those things frustrate me, because they are fixable through coaching.

[BstHcpr]

All the hand-wringing over a super-sub guy like Holt is perplexing. There is no big upgrade in the organization that is reliable that overcomes his versatility. He is a bench guy. If he was as good as a starter, he would be a starter. He's a solid pro, and when he is in the lineup giving someone a rest, I am not pulling out my hair. I pull my hair out as our runners run into ridiculous outs on the bases and when our LF doesn't know where or when to throw a ball. Those things frustrate me, because they are fixable through coaching.

 

Agreed. The "upgrades" are Lin and Marerro? Travis? Those guys aren't even hitting AAA pitching.

[oldtimer]

Agreed. The "upgrades" are Lin and Marerro? Travis? Those guys aren't even hitting AAA pitching.

 

Lin hit 280 for the Sox when up.

[mvp 78]

Agreed. The "upgrades" are Lin and Marerro? Travis? Those guys aren't even hitting AAA pitching.

 

Holt is a negative WAR player. He's batting below .200. I bet Lin could do that and provide better defense.

[BstHcpr]

Holt is a negative WAR player. He's batting below .200. I bet Lin could do that and provide better defense.

 

Maybe. I think it's marginal either way.

[illinoisredsox]

Lin hit 280 for the Sox when up.

 

Yes, but he's also hitting .241 in Pawtucket and is a career .241 hitter over 6 minor league seasons (2000+ plate appearances). He's better than Holt defensively (and probably a better baserunner).

 

Interestingly, he's been playing a fair amount of outfield at Pawtucket (15 out of 27 games). They know he can do the job in the infield, so one has to wonder if the Sox are grooming him to replace Holt in the super utility role next season.

[oldtimer]

Yes, but he's also hitting .241 in Pawtucket and is a career .241 hitter over 6 minor league seasons (2000+ plate appearances). He's better than Holt defensively (and probably a better baserunner).

 

Interestingly, he's been playing a fair amount of outfield at Pawtucket (15 out of 27 games). They know he can do the job in the infield, so one has to wonder if the Sox are grooming him to replace Holt in the super utility role next season.

 

Marerro is being brought up so its clear where JF thinks he wants to go. holt will now be the utility outfielder.

[illinoisredsox]

Marerro is being brought up so its clear where JF thinks he wants to go. holt will now be the utility outfielder.

 

I can't say I blame him there. There are no other OFs on the 40 man roster. IMO, Holt is a better OF than IF (defensively). I'm not saying he's great. But in the midst of a pennant race, I'm not sure I trust the 4th OF spot to a kid (Lin) who has maybe played 20 games in the OF professionally.

 

Brentz, who would require a roster move as in DFAing somebody, might be okay as a hitter but he's a terrible OF.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I would have called up Brentz and deactivated Jim Rutledge (or whatever his name is). I would then platoon Young and Brentz in LF, starting Young against RHP (he is hitting better against right-handers this year).

 

Marrero makes sense in that they will probably give Devers a day off here and there against LHP. Nevertheless, I'm not crazy about the idea of Holt starting in LF and would prefer getting a little more power in the lineup.

[moonslav59]

Holt is a negative WAR player. He's batting below .200. I bet Lin could do that and provide better defense.

 

Lin can't play 1B or LF--not that Holt is any good at either.

[moonslav59]

I can't say I blame him there. There are no other OFs on the 40 man roster. IMO, Holt is a better OF than IF (defensively). I'm not saying he's great. But in the midst of a pennant race, I'm not sure I trust the 4th OF spot to a kid (Lin) who has maybe played 20 games in the OF professionally.

 

Brentz, who would require a roster move as in DFAing somebody, might be okay as a hitter but he's a terrible OF.

 

Sleskey is on the 40 man roster.

 

He's an OF'er.

 

Holt is a better choice for our needs right now, but he should not be starting 5 games during a stretch where we had 4 days off in 20 days.

 

When he is forced to start, he should never bat 1 or 2.

[moonslav59]

I would have called up Brentz and deactivated Jim Rutledge (or whatever his name is). I would then platoon Young and Brentz in LF, starting Young against RHP (he is hitting better against right-handers this year).

 

Marrero makes sense in that they will probably give Devers a day off here and there against LHP. Nevertheless, I'm not crazy about the idea of Holt starting in LF and would prefer getting a little more power in the lineup.

 

Rutledge is on the 60 DL, so DFA'ing him does not open a slot on the 40 man roster.

 

We'd have to DFA Selsky or someone else.

[Kimmi]

Maybe. I think it's marginal either way.

 

It's marginal. It's certainly not worth losing sleep over.