DD Curse

[Spudboy]

Wilts free throw percentage went WAY up when he started shooting underhand.

 

Then he decided it wasn't cool.......... went back we see everyone do now, and had his percentage drop like crazy......

 

Wilt hit on my Mom.

[cp176]

Rick Berry.

 

scoring machine back in the day

[SoxHop]

Wilt hit on my Mom.

 

I think I remember you saying that. Didn't he do a drive by and check out your Mom.

 

Tell the story again will you. Spud, you have some crazy fun stories you tell.

[Spudboy]

I think I remember you saying that. Didn't he do a drive by and check out your Mom.

 

Tell the story again will you. Spud, you have some crazy fun stories you tell.

 

No it was Cassius Clay who drove by to check out my Mom in at a Louisville bus stop.

 

It seems that my parents were at a Philly jazz club one night when Wilt noticed my Mom standing there and started to promote her.

 

My Dad always said that he was the only one who that brought a good looking piece of ass to faculty parties. My Mom was always very attractive. She always had men sniffing around.

[notin]

OK that's fair enough, you're talking about the closer 'role'.

 

Yrs. The role of closer is overrated.

 

Good relief pitching is essential. Dedicating your best reliever to be a ninth inning specialist is a waste. I loved the way Francona used Miller last season - best reliever to get the best hitters.

[mvp 78]

Yrs. The role of closer is overrated.

 

Good relief pitching is essential. Dedicating your best reliever to be a ninth inning specialist is a waste. I loved the way Francona used Miller last season - best reliever to get the best hitters.

 

It helps having two elite relievers. Otherwise, it's hard for managers to utilize their pens this way.

[S5Dewey]

Bill James said this and I echoed it here some time ago. Use your best reliever - a/k/a your closer - to maintain a lead rather than save him for the 9th to try to preserve one that may no longer be there.

 

I've always wondered why the 'stat people' didn't buy right into this. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Kimbrel pitching to a #4-5-6 hitter in the 7th inning of a close game with runners on base than to start with a clean inning and pitch to #7-8-9 in the 9th?

[SoxHop]

No it was Cassius Clay who drove by to check out my Mom in at a Louisville bus stop.

 

It seems that my parents were at a Philly jazz club one night when Wilt noticed my Mom standing there and started to promote her.

 

My Dad always said that he was the only one who that brought a good looking piece of ass to faculty parties. My Mom was always very attractive. She always had men sniffing around.

 

That's too funny Spud. I hope to one day have a beer together. You seem like a guy I could just hang out and listen to all your stories and be entertained for hours.....

[mvp 78]

Bill James said this and I echoed it here some time ago. Use your best reliever - a/k/a your closer - to maintain a lead rather than save him for the 9th to try to preserve one that may no longer be there.

 

I've always wondered why the 'stat people' didn't buy right into this. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Kimbrel pitching to a #4-5-6 hitter in the 7th inning of a close game with runners on base than to start with a clean inning and pitch to #7-8-9 in the 9th?

 

If pitchers were robots, sure.

[SoxHop]

You all just listen to this amazing podcast.

 

JUST LISTEN....

 

It will blow your mind.

 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/590/choosing-wrong

 

Sorry. THat link was broken.

 

This one works.

 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/590/choosing-wrong

 

I forgot where I heard that statistically if you go for it on fourth down every time, you would win more games. I think the same podcast. I'll look it up.

 

The other thing I heard was trading for higher level picks in the NFL is NEVER a good idea.....

 

Wilt Chamberlain - easily one of the best basketball players of all time - was a terrible free throw shooter. Except for one season when he changed technique and scored more free throws in one game than anyone ever has. Then, crazily, he gave up the technique. Malcolm Gladwell explains why we often make the wrong decisions, in full awareness that they're wrong

[SoxHop]

Sorry. THat link was broken.

 

This one works.

 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/590/choosing-wrong

 

I forgot where I heard that statistically if you go for it on fourth down every time, you would win more games. I think the same podcast. I'll look it up.

 

The other thing I heard was trading for higher level picks in the NFL is NEVER a good idea.....

 

Wilt Chamberlain - easily one of the best basketball players of all time - was a terrible free throw shooter. Except for one season when he changed technique and scored more free throws in one game than anyone ever has. Then, crazily, he gave up the technique. Malcolm Gladwell explains why we often make the wrong decisions, in full awareness that they're wrong

 

My bad again. Looks like you have to pay for the podcast now which hasn't been a thing ever. So much for public radio....... But if you happen to pay the 99 cents it will be worth it....

[SoxHop]

If pitchers were robots, sure.

 

Meaning they feel more comfortable when they know their role and adjust to it and perform better?

 

I'm not sure I buy that.....

[S5Dewey]

If pitchers were robots, sure.

 

Are we getting back into the area of "chocking" and "clutch" here?

[mvp 78]

Meaning they feel more comfortable when they know their role and adjust to it and perform better?

 

I'm not sure I buy that.....

 

Well, that's what ballplayers are always talking about. That they want to feel comfortable and be able to be mentally ready.

[mvp 78]

Are we getting back into the area of "chocking" and "clutch" here?

 

Nope.

[S5Dewey]

Nope.

 

Yeah, we are. If we're talking about a player's mental state that's exactly what we're talking about. Their mental state and how it affects their play.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, we are. If we're talking about a player's mental state that's exactly what we're talking about. Their mental state and how it affects their play.

 

Not mental state per se, but preparation. If you're used to preparing for a 9th inning stint, it's hard to get up for a 6th inning.

[S5Dewey]

I'll tell you what I think.

 

I think there are two groups who want for this to stay the way it is, with a designated closer.

 

There's the manager who now doesn't have to be second-guessed for not using his closer in the 6th, even if the team lost the game.

 

And there's the "closer" who can get a lot more respect (and money!!) for being a successful designated closer than he ever could for being a guy who comes in to put out the fire in the 7th and then leaving the game.

 

But that's JMO, and a bit cynical one.

[Bellhorn04]

I'll tell you what I think.

 

I think there are two groups who want for this to stay the way it is, with a designated closer.

 

There's the manager who now doesn't have to be second-guessed for not using his closer in the 6th, even if the team lost the game.

 

And there's the "closer" who can get a lot more respect (and money!!) for being a successful designated closer than he ever could for being a guy who comes in to put out the fire in the 7th and then leaving the game.

 

But that's JMO, and a bit cynical one.

 

Now I think you're a closet Sabrmetrician.

[jad]

Right. It's one of the side-issues pointed out in Moneyball: it's always safer to 'go with tradition'. Contracts are incentive laden (you get money for saves, not for the team's record), and managers will get pummeled if they don't 'go by the book' even if the book is known to be false. My favorite dumb-ass version of this was a d.b. football announcer commenting on the wisdom of the "prevent defense" (which in this case, cost a game): "But still, it works more often than not." (well, yes: the team that is ahead late in the game wins more often than it loses; just as a baseball team up by a run or two in the 9th inning wins more often, granting its closer a S, than when the game is tied).

[dgalehouse]

I think I've got it now. You can enhance your chances of winning by having Kimbrel pitch the 6th and using Ross or Kelly to close. In football , it is a good idea to go for it on 4th and 20 from your own 15 with a minute left in the half. NBA ? Have Isaiah Thomas shoot free throws underhanded. It worked for Barry. Now you are ready to succeed as a manager/head coach. Don't forget to bring your calculator. By the way, in hockey it might be great to pull the goalie in the 2nd period if trailing by a goal. The sooner you catch up , the better. Honestly , analytics have a use , but some of the deep thinkers want to reinvent the games and throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't foresee any teams adopting some of these " revolutionary " ideas any time soon. Billy Beane might actually win something before it happens. Don't hold your breath.

[cp176]

Yrs. The role of closer is overrated.

 

Good relief pitching is essential. Dedicating your best reliever to be a ninth inning specialist is a waste. I loved the way Francona used Miller last season - best reliever to get the best hitters.

 

i really think that the whole concept of specialization in baseball has gotten too big. I particularly hate the fact that we see it with respect to relief pitchers. set up men - 8th inning specialists - closers. Pigeon holed and stereotyped . Win the game! You have to understand though that I am one of those advocates for your best players making the team regardless of what their options might be.

[mvp 78]

I'm fine with the "relief ace" not being the closer. I think you need a specific personality to do that though. I'm not sure Kimbrel fits that bill. That's where a guy like Carson Smith would come in handy.

[cp176]

I'm fine with the "relief ace" not being the closer. I think you need a specific personality to do that though. I'm not sure Kimbrel fits that bill. That's where a guy like Carson Smith would come in handy.

 

i like that expression "relief ace" much better than "closer". Closer implies only one time that you can actually use a guy. JF takes these things very literally I think.

[Bellhorn04]

Farrell uses Kimbrel the same way virtually all the other managers use their closer.

[mvp 78]

Farrell uses Kimbrel the same way virtually all the other managers use their closer.

 

Yes, except for some managers that have two elite arms.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, except for some managers that have two elite arms.

 

Yeah, the whole 'relief ace' thing seems like a great idea, but you do need those two elite arms.

 

If you have a great closer but the rest of your bullpen is shaky, using your closer to protect a lead in the 7th inning may not be such a great idea. Because if whoever's behind him blows the game you end up with a loss and your closer may not be available next game.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, the whole 'relief ace' thing seems like a great idea, but you do need those two elite arms.

 

If you have a great closer but the rest of your bullpen is shaky, using your closer to protect a lead in the 7th inning may not be such a great idea. Because if whoever's behind him blows the game you end up with a loss and your closer may not be available next game.

 

I only mention it because a lot of people drool over how Andrew Miller was used last year. He was only used that way because of Cody Allen. The Sox don't have that luxury right now.

[notin]

Bill James said this and I echoed it here some time ago. Use your best reliever - a/k/a your closer - to maintain a lead rather than save him for the 9th to try to preserve one that may no longer be there.

 

I've always wondered why the 'stat people' didn't buy right into this. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Kimbrel pitching to a #4-5-6 hitter in the 7th inning of a close game with runners on base than to start with a clean inning and pitch to #7-8-9 in the 9th?

 

 

This stat guy has been saying exactly that going back to BDC..

[S5Dewey]

I think I've got it now. You can enhance your chances of winning by having Kimbrel pitch the 6th and using Ross or Kelly to close. In football , it is a good idea to go for it on 4th and 20 from your own 15 with a minute left in the half. NBA ? Have Isaiah Thomas shoot free throws underhanded. It worked for Barry. Now you are ready to succeed as a manager/head coach. Don't forget to bring your calculator. By the way, in hockey it might be great to pull the goalie in the 2nd period if trailing by a goal. The sooner you catch up , the better. Honestly , analytics have a use , but some of the deep thinkers want to reinvent the games and throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't foresee any teams adopting some of these " revolutionary " ideas any time soon. Billy Beane might actually win something before it happens. Don't hold your breath.

 

???

 

Obviously it's situational. Picture this: Red Sox up by 2 runs, 7th inning, one out, two runners on base for Baltimore, Machado, Trumbo, & Davis due up.

 

Who would you rather have to get those guys out and preserve the lead, Kimbrel, Ross, or Kelly?