Sox hitting??

[oldtimer]

And this is what I am saying, essentially.

 

If he were a .300 30/30 guy still I probably would not complain about him.

 

So far in almost three seasons we have gotten one good season out of him.

 

Waste of money.

 

So should we make certain he gets 1025 pa's this season and next so we have him again in 2019? Hope not.

[Bellhorn04]

So should we make certain he gets 1025 pa's this season and next so we have him again in 2019? Hope not.

 

I hate that kind of vesting option in a contract.

[Spudboy]

I hate that kind of vesting option in a contract.

 

Me too.

 

Guaranteed contracts suck too.

 

Perform and you keep your job.

 

Just like in real life.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's why I hate that particular kind of option.

 

First of all, because Hanley is sucking we're all grumbling about the prospect of him reaching the number and us getting stuck with him for another year at 22 mill. Perfectly understandable.

 

Second, these things have created some controversy before. Maybe Hanley is having a decent year but the team seems to be trying to cut back on his time to not hit the number. Hanley's agent complains about it, yada yada yada...not a good thing in any way.

[Spudboy]

Here's why I hate that particular kind of option.

 

First of all, because Hanley is sucking we're all grumbling about the prospect of him reaching the number and us getting stuck with him for another year at 22 mill. Perfectly understandable.

 

Second, these things have created some controversy before. Maybe Hanley is having a decent year but the team seems to be trying to cut back on his time to not hit the number. Hanley's agent complains about it, yada yada yada...not a good thing in any way.

 

I agree.

[Emp9]

Good article about Betts this season here:

 

http://boston.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/08/24/musing-about-mookie-betts/

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Hanley does suck, doesn't he? He has an OPS+ of 100, totally unacceptable. I think the unacceptable OPS+ this season justifies a part time role for Hanley next season. He rides the bench next year, only plays against LHP. If he doesn't like it, release him later in the season. At this point in his career, he is an irrelevant player and so releasing him wouldn't hurt the team at all. You can easily replace a no-field OPS+ of 100.

 

Pedroia's knee might resolve the problem anyway. Pedroia might have to be the full time DH in 2018 (or spend a considerable amount of time in the DH spot). In this scenario, the Red Sox should sign a left handed hitting first baseman (perhaps resign Moreland on another one year deal) and platoon that player with da bum, Hanley Ramirez. That would keep Hanley's option from vesting. The bigger issue going forward concerns 2b. Do the Red Sox resign E.Nunez for 2b? What about M.Hernandez?

 

As a full time DH, Pedroia might have a few big offensive seasons in him. To be sure, he can't do any worse than an OPS+ of 100.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[a700hitter]

Hanley does suck, doesn't he? He has an OPS+ of 100, totally unacceptable. I think the unacceptable OPS+ this season justifies a part time role for Hanley next season. He rides the bench next year, only plays against LHP. If he doesn't like it, release him later in the season. At this point in his career, he is an irrelevant player and so releasing him wouldn't hurt the team at all. You can easily replace a no-field OPS+ of 100.

 

Pedroia's knee might resolve the problem anyway. Pedroia might have to be the full time DH in 2018 (or spend a considerable amount of time in the DH spot). In this scenario, the Red Sox should sign a left handed hitting first baseman (perhaps resign Moreland on another one year deal) and platoon that player with da bum, Hanley Ramirez.

it looks like 2016 will be the only good season we will get from Hanley for his hugely overpaid contract. It really is ridiculous that Ben signed him for a long term contract with an annual rate that far exceeds any of David Ottis's single year contracts. Just terrible judgment.

[Bellhorn04]

What was really strange about Hanley's contract was that a lot of people were expecting him to get even more.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

 

Maybe Hanley is having a decent year but the team seems to be trying to cut back on his time to not hit the number. Hanley's agent complains about it, yada yada yada...not a good thing in any way.

 

The thing is, Hanley is not having a decent year this season (he is at replacement level) and so the part time role for next season is already justified and built in based on current performance.

 

If the agent complains, if Hanley complains, you release him. You do not hurt your team by releasing a replacement level player. The Red Sox can easily replace a no-field OPS+ of 100.

 

However, if the Red Sox release him and another team signs him and he gets enough playing time for the option to vest, would the Red Sox be responsible for paying the money on the vesting option? Probably not. But if they are, they need to hold on to him long enough to keep the option from vesting. If the Red Sox aren't responsible (I wish I knew), the organization should seriously consider releasing him in the off-season. Problem solved.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Bellhorn04]

The thing is, Hanley is not having a decent year this season (he is at replacement level) and so the part time role for next season is already justified and built in based on current performance.

 

If the agent complains, if Hanley complains, you release him. You do not hurt your team by releasing a replacement level player. The Red Sox can easily replace a no-field OPS+ of 100.

 

Can't argue with any of that.

 

Just another $22 million sandwich for the team to swallow.

[Spudboy]

Can't argue with any of that.

 

Just another $22 million sandwich for the team to swallow.

 

Or maybe Hanley was a good idea that just did not work out?

 

You know. Like CC, Fatboy, the "5 Cy Young" approach to rotation construction.

 

All these ideas were sound! They should have worked! For some reason they did not work.

 

So many enigmas!!!!

[Maxbialystock]

Agree. Lots of numbers and graphs for something simple--sliders this year have almost killed Betts' bat. But the writer is betting Betts is too good to let that continue much longer. Plus he is hitting the ball hard, even with the popups.

 

This year more and more I think the pitching coach is doing a better job than the hitting coach, but what do I know?

[moonslav59]

I would add that Hanley's great looking career numbers might be skewed slightly by the incredible seasons he had early in his career. Obviously there have been times in recent years where he has looked like the Hanley of yesteryear but not so much now. I just want him to hit.

 

I've never been a HRam fan, and his numbers are padded by early career successes, but he has been over .810 in 3 of his last 5 seasons. This after a couple of down years from 2011 to 2012.

 

He hit 30 HRs last year- something he'd only done once before. That wasn't that long ago.

 

He had his best OPS season in 2013 (year 8 out of 13), albeit a shortened season.

 

Maybe I'm just being an optimist. Maybe I am just feeling we need HRam to be that middle order bat that's been missing this year. Maybe HRam is toast.

 

I just don't see anyone else on the roster I'd rather have DH right now.

 

Next year might be another story, but at $22M, I'm not sure how many of these contracts we can just piss away.

 

 

 

 

[cp176]

I've never been a HRam fan, and his numbers are padded by early career successes, but he has been over .810 in 3 of his last 5 seasons. This after a couple of down years from 2011 to 2012.

 

He hit 30 HRs last year- something he'd only done once before. That wasn't that long ago.

 

He had his best OPS season in 2013 (year 8 out of 13), albeit a shortened season.

 

Maybe I'm just being an optimist. Maybe I am just feeling we need HRam to be that middle order bat that's been missing this year. Maybe HRam is toast.

 

I just don't see anyone else on the roster I'd rather have DH right now.

 

Next year might be another story, but at $22M, I'm not sure how many of these contracts we can just piss away.

 

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with you here. I'm hoping that he will start to hit the way he has hit in the past. I do think that he is a classic example of how using career stats can be used to show a very unclear picture of the value a player might have in the present though.

[moonslav59]

I actually agree with you here. I'm hoping that he will start to hit the way he has hit in the past. I do think that he is a classic example of how using career stats can be used to show a very unclear picture of the value a player might have in the present though.

 

Career stats do often give unclear pictures. Players who had good to great careers but are post prime are sometimes regarded as better than maybe they really are at the point in their career. Its' maybe one reason 30-32 year old free agents get overpaid. In HRam's case, he's just approaching traditional post prime years. There's still a significant chance he has another very good season or two. There's also a significant chance he'll never come close to h s 2016 season again.

 

The other area where the picture often becomes "unclear" is with players in the early part of their career who either started off very slowly (like JBJ) or very well and then went on to have better or worse careers than their "career numbers" seem to indicate they should

be doing (to some).

 

I think one needs to look at what point a player is in his career, weigh his career numbers against his most recent 2-3 year numbers and trends, and then consider that not all players follow traditional bell curve careers. In short, going forward, I would expect JBJ to do better than his career numbers over the next few years, and HRam to do worse than his career numbers over the next few years.

 

[SoxHop]

I actually agree with you here. I'm hoping that he will start to hit the way he has hit in the past. I do think that he is a classic example of how using career stats can be used to show a very unclear picture of the value a player might have in the present though.

 

Too large a sample size....

[cp176]

Too large a sample size....

 

After all of that research, you hit me with this -lol

I was feeling so intelligent too.

[oldtimer]

I've never been a HRam fan, and his numbers are padded by early career successes, but he has been over .810 in 3 of his last 5 seasons. This after a couple of down years from 2011 to 2012.

 

He hit 30 HRs last year- something he'd only done once before. That wasn't that long ago.

 

He had his best OPS season in 2013 (year 8 out of 13), albeit a shortened season.

 

Maybe I'm just being an optimist. Maybe I am just feeling we need HRam to be that middle order bat that's been missing this year. Maybe HRam is toast.

 

I just don't see anyone else on the roster I'd rather have DH right now.

 

Next year might be another story, but at $22M, I'm not sure how many of these contracts we can just piss away.

 

 

 

 

 

While we hope Hanley will perform, the team is handicapped by having a middle of the order bat which is largely disfunctional. Things are more confused by having both Pedey and JBJ sidelined at the present time. If those two make it back then the picture is clarified. Nunez, who is hitting would need a position. Clearly he would be a better option at this point as DH. If we took the $22.7 million dollar contract out of the picture and just went on recent performance, it would be a no brainer. I hate to see him struggle like this but Hanley just isn't getting it done.

 

If we are serious about winning the pennant, hard decisions need to be made. At least Hanley had a good year to justify some of his contract. We ate Craig, Castillo, Sandoval contracts and have a major underperformance from Hanley and the verdict is out on Price. As the song goes, "When will they ever learn".

[SoxHop]

After all of that research, you hit me with this -lol

I was feeling so intelligent too.

 

There should be a stat where you could measure a players "aint what he use to be". Hanley's AWHUTB stat would be very high.

 

I think a combination of age and that shoulder injury has taken him down a couple notches.

 

To me it seems like he is swinging for the fence every at bat like he did the first year with the Sox. I think that may be hurting him also.

[a700hitter]

There should be a stat where you could measure a players "aint what he use to be". Hanley's AWHUTB stat would be very high.

 

I think a combination of age and that shoulder injury has taken him down a couple notches.

 

To me it seems like he is swinging for the fence every at bat like he did the first year with the Sox. I think that may be hurting him also.

How about a stat for players that never live up to potential like "Ain't What he was Cracked Up to Be" or AWHWCUTB or "Potential Unfulfilled" or PUFF.

[SoxHop]

How about a stat for players that never live up to potential like "Ain't What he was Cracked Up to Be" or AWHWCUTB or "Potential Unfulfilled" or PUFF.

 

ahahahaha!!!!!

[S5Dewey]

How about a stat for players that never live up to potential like "Ain't What he was Cracked Up to Be" or AWHWCUTB or "Potential Unfulfilled" or PUFF.

 

PUFF! I like it!

 

It reminds me of the NFL's Physically Unable to Play List, or PUP list.

[cp176]

Now we are talking my language.

[moonslav59]

While we hope Hanley will perform, the team is handicapped by having a middle of the order bat which is largely disfunctional. Things are more confused by having both Pedey and JBJ sidelined at the present time. If those two make it back then the picture is clarified. Nunez, who is hitting would need a position. Clearly he would be a better option at this point as DH. If we took the $22.7 million dollar contract out of the picture and just went on recent performance, it would be a no brainer. I hate to see him struggle like this but Hanley just isn't getting it done.

 

If we are serious about winning the pennant, hard decisions need to be made. At least Hanley had a good year to justify some of his contract. We ate Craig, Castillo, Sandoval contracts and have a major underperformance from Hanley and the verdict is out on Price. As the song goes, "When will they ever learn".

 

How about, We won't get fooled again!"

[cp176]

How about, We won't get fooled again!"

 

you did say you liked "The Who"!

[Larry Cook]

It would be extremely helpful if Hanley got hot for the rest of the season.

 

Just how bad is his shoulder?

[Kimmi]

What was really strange about Hanley's contract was that a lot of people were expecting him to get even more.

 

I had no problem with Hanley's contract. For a hitter of his caliber coming into the 2015 season, it was not unreasonable.

[moonslav59]

I had no problem with Hanley's contract. For a hitter of his caliber coming into the 2015 season, it was not unreasonable.

 

I had hoped we signed him to play 3B, but then I heard about Pablito.

 

I didn't really like the signing, but I felt it was a good attempt at filling a very high need without trading away top prospects.

 

HRam is still young enough to have a long stretch of high productivity. I'm hopeful, but I would not project greatness going forward.

[Kimmi]

While we hope Hanley will perform, the team is handicapped by having a middle of the order bat which is largely disfunctional. Things are more confused by having both Pedey and JBJ sidelined at the present time. If those two make it back then the picture is clarified. Nunez, who is hitting would need a position. Clearly he would be a better option at this point as DH. If we took the $22.7 million dollar contract out of the picture and just went on recent performance, it would be a no brainer. I hate to see him struggle like this but Hanley just isn't getting it done.

 

If we are serious about winning the pennant, hard decisions need to be made. At least Hanley had a good year to justify some of his contract. We ate Craig, Castillo, Sandoval contracts and have a major underperformance from Hanley and the verdict is out on Price. As the song goes, "When will they ever learn".

 

They learn, until the next enticing superstar player comes along, unfortunately.

 

How many people here are wanting to trade for Stanton? How many people here want to give Betts a 10 year deal?