Sox hitting??

[BstHcpr]

 

Another question I asked to Cameron about hypothetical Betts extension.

 

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-2448.html

[Kimmi]

You will continue to devalue the human element of baseball in favor of statistics. I will continue to believe that the human element has more to do with what a player will do in his next game or AB than statistics do.

 

I'm good with that.

 

I do not devalue the human element at all. You continue to use this strawman argument, however.

 

I value stats more than you do. That, I can accept. I don't think I value the human element any less than you do.

[Kimmi]

Can you provide an example of this, because I can't find one.

 

Because it's simply not true.

[SoxnCycles]

Because it's simply not true.

 

You really need to be nicer, when you tell someone they're wrong.

[Kimmi]

Asked and answered.

 

There has been a long-going discussion here about the value of statistics vs. the value of the human element. There are currently 142 pages in this thread. I'm not going back through pages and pages of previous posts to try to prove what many posters here already know.

 

Either we respect other poster's opinions or we don't. Pretty simple stuff.

 

You and a few other posters here seem to think that by posting stats that refute what you are saying, we are being disrespectful. It is not being disrespectful. It is simply supporting an opinion.

 

You continue to claim that I'm being disrespectful to you. If you think that's the case, please put me on ignore.

[mvp 78]

I am aware of all of that. Having a 3rd catching option available in case of emergency gives Farrell some more flexibility in case he wants to pinch hit or pinch run for one of his catchers.

 

I'm not sure I'd want Swihart behind the plate in any situation right now. Maybe mop up during a blowout?

[Kimmi]

Maybe, we should wait on that 10 year, $300M contract offer.

 

Betts is a very good player even in his 'down' year. I'm with you about not offering him a 10 year deal. But if we're going to do it, I'd do it now, where we would be buying out 3 of his arb years.

[a700hitter]

Because it's simply not true.

I thought you acknowledged the mental aspect of the game?

[Kimmi]

You really need to be nicer, when you tell someone they're wrong.

 

Thank you.

[Kimmi]

I'm not sure I'd want Swihart behind the plate in any situation right now. Maybe mop up during a blowout?

 

That could be. Just a thought. And again, it would be an emergency case in which Farrell pinch hit or ran for one of the catchers, and the other one got injured.

[S5Dewey]

You really need to be nicer, when you tell someone they're wrong.

 

No. What she needs to be is open to the idea that there are two valid opinions and hers may not always be right.

[mvp 78]

No. What she needs to be is open to the idea that there are two valid opinions and hers may not always be right.

 

I think someone needs a nap.

[S5Dewey]

I think someone needs a nap.

 

??? Isn't that the way normal, considerate people conduct their lives? By realizing that there's a chance that they may not always be right and governing their behavior accordingly?

[jad]

You really need to be nicer, when you tell someone they're wrong.

 

I thought this was the internet. Now you're saying ordinary rules of civil behavior apply?? I'm shocked! What a world! What a world!

[BstHcpr]

Mookie Betts. He's a good player. I think I was too high with 10/300. I would see if he would accept 10/270 first.

[S5Dewey]

You and a few other posters here seem to think that by posting stats that refute what you are saying, we are being disrespectful. It is not being disrespectful. It is simply supporting an opinion.

 

You continue to claim that I'm being disrespectful to you. If you think that's the case, please put me on ignore.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

I've extended some olive branches in an effort to defuse this thing, saying that "I believe there's room for both the statistics and the human element in this game and I'm willing to accept the opinions of the 'stat geeks for what they are", as well as "I will continue to believe that the human element has more to do with what a player will do in his next game or AB than statistics do. I'm good with that", and, "I've taken a new approach. When I now see things that statistics don't bear our (like Price not winning in his last outing and Fister pitching the gem he did last night) I don't even mention it. It's called "respect", and I've had them broken off and poked back in my face.

 

If your solution is the Ignore feature rather than trying to reach an amicable agreement, then use it.

[Kimmi]

Not gonna happen.

 

I've extended some olive branches in an effort to defuse this thing, saying that "I believe there's room for both the statistics and the human element in this game and I'm willing to accept the opinions of the 'stat geeks for what they are", as well as "I will continue to believe that the human element has more to do with what a player will do in his next game or AB than statistics do. I'm good with that", and, "I've taken a new approach. When I now see things that statistics don't bear our (like Price not winning in his last outing and Fister pitching the gem he did last night) I don't even mention it. It's called "respect", and I've had them broken off and poked back in my face.

 

If your solution is the Ignore feature rather than trying to reach an amicable agreement, then use it.

 

I am sorry that you feel disrespected. I have told you time and time again that I mean no disrespect. I have also said repeatedly that the human element is a huge part of the game and that scouts (eye test) are as important as stats are. You reply with something along the lines that it's just lip service, and continue to post what you think my opinion of the human element is, despite what I have said. In essence, you're calling me a liar. Talk about disrespect.

 

There is room for everyone's opinion on here. I have never said that you're not allowed to have or voice your opinion regarding the human element or anything else. I have never belittled or mocked your opinion, as you have mine. Do I disagree with a lot of what you say? Absolutely. Does that make me disrespectful? Hardly.

 

I am going to continue to post the way that I post. If you feel so disrespected by me, you really should do yourself a favor and put me on ignore.

[Bellhorn04]

I think one of the sources of confusion/conflict is that while we all have certain beliefs about the human element's effect on performance, statistics are generally not capable of measuring that effect.

[S5Dewey]

I think one of the sources of confusion/conflict is that while we all have certain beliefs about the human element's effect on performance, statistics are generally not capable of measuring that effect.

 

Thank you. I'm good with that.

[S5Dewey]

I am sorry that you feel disrespected. I have told you time and time again that I mean no disrespect. I have also said repeatedly that the human element is a huge part of the game and that scouts (eye test) are as important as stats are. You reply with something along the lines that it's just lip service, and continue to post what you think my opinion of the human element is, despite what I have said. In essence, you're calling me a liar. Talk about disrespect.

 

There is room for everyone's opinion on here. I have never said that you're not allowed to have or voice your opinion regarding the human element or anything else. I have never belittled or mocked your opinion, as you have mine. Do I disagree with a lot of what you say? Absolutely. Does that make me disrespectful? Hardly.

 

I am going to continue to post the way that I post. If you feel so disrespected by me, you really should do yourself a favor and put me on ignore.

 

That's fair. And I'll continue to do the same thing,

[cp176]

One thing that I never claimed to be was much of a hitting coach but when I see Hanley swing the bat I do get confused. If the ball is in the center of the strike zone, he stands a good chance of making contact but that swing never changes much. He doesn't give me the impression that he swings at the ball as opposed to just swinging through the strike zone. The best hitters whether they are simply contact or power hitters look to me as though they are actually locating the ball and making adjustments to hit it where it is pitched. We can all hope that he gets a chance to see a few more hangers in the middle of the zone I guess. Those he murders!

[Bellhorn04]

One thing that I never claimed to be was much of a hitting coach but when I see Hanley swing the bat I do get confused. If the ball is in the center of the strike zone, he stands a good chance of making contact but that swing never changes much. He doesn't give me the impression that he swings at the ball as opposed to just swinging through the strike zone. The best hitters whether they are simply contact or power hitters look to me as though they are actually locating the ball and making adjustments to hit it where it is pitched. We can all hope that he gets a chance to see a few more hangers in the middle of the zone I guess. Those he murders!

 

And yet Hanley has a .292 career batting average and .855 OPS, numbers that most hitters would love to have. It is indeed a funny game.

[oldtimer]

And yet Hanley has a .292 career batting average and .855 OPS, numbers that most hitters would love to have. It is indeed a funny game.

 

Of course this year he would also love to have those numbers. He just looks disconnected up there. He reportedly works hard and cares, so I clearly don't get it. If he goes up there and hits again like he did last night then we will have a major hole in the lineup. If he performs then great for JF and the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course this year he would also love to have those numbers. He just looks disconnected up there. He reportedly works hard and cares, so I clearly don't get it. If he goes up there and hits again like he did last night then we will have a major hole in the lineup. If he performs then great for JF and the Sox.

 

Kluber is a tough pitcher. He had 12 strikeouts last night. Hanley wasn't the only one having trouble making contact.

[cp176]

And yet Hanley has a .292 career batting average and .855 OPS, numbers that most hitters would love to have. It is indeed a funny game.

 

Good one here - You know me by now - I'm never going to doubt this statistical evidence that tells us all that he is just one fine all time hitter -lol

 

Just throwing out an observation.

[cp176]

Good one here - You know me by now - I'm never going to doubt this statistical evidence that tells us all that he is just one fine all time hitter -lol

 

Just throwing out an observation.

 

I would add that Hanley's great looking career numbers might be skewed slightly by the incredible seasons he had early in his career. Obviously there have been times in recent years where he has looked like the Hanley of yesteryear but not so much now. I just want him to hit.

[Spudboy]

I think one of the sources of confusion/conflict is that while we all have certain beliefs about the human element's effect on performance, statistics are generally not capable of measuring that effect.

 

Maybe.

 

But one thing that annoys several members that I have spoken with is having their ideas poo-pooed by people who believe their own ideas are beyond reproach because they have seen some statistic or study. These people insult others by being inflexible and never for a single moment acknowledge that they may not be correct.

 

Then for the cherry on top they get pissed off and say that they have been insulted.

 

We never had this sort of problem before on Talksox. I don't speak for everybody but a handful of posters that I communicate with have voiced similar opinions to me recently.

 

I don't see any utility in the ignore function. I just don't read or respond to their posts and hope that they will lose interest in Talksox.

[Spudboy]

And yet Hanley has a .292 career batting average and .855 OPS, numbers that most hitters would love to have. It is indeed a funny game.

 

Not recently. He is a 250 hitter with occasional power.

 

And he is no longer fast.

 

A bahgain at only $22. mil.

[Bellhorn04]

Not recently. He is a 250 hitter with occasional power.

 

And he is no longer fast.

 

A bahgain at only $22. mil.

 

He's having a s*** season, no doubt about that. As I've said before, the day we signed Pablo and Hanley was a very bad day for the franchise. $41 million a year for virtually zero net production.

[Spudboy]

He's having a s*** season, no doubt about that. As I've said before, the day we signed Pablo and Hanley was a very bad day for the franchise. $41 million a year for virtually zero net production.

 

And this is what I am saying, essentially.

 

If he were a .300 30/30 guy still I probably would not complain about him.

 

So far in almost three seasons we have gotten one good season out of him.

 

Waste of money.