Sox hitting??

[oldtimer]

Since you started it, I now feel like its ok to criticize Mookie. I was going to bring it up, but I was afraid to take the heat. I have been an off and on critic of Mookie but sometimes it is taken as bashing. I think the excitement over some of Mookie's exploits overshadow any talk of weaknesses in his game. It's probably too early in his career to accurately gauge what kind of hitter he really is. But you are correct, he has not been hitting lately.

 

Watching the games last night and tonight, it is pretty clear that the Yankees are much more capable pf producing runs than we are at the present time. A decent pitcher leaves us with 4 or 5 hits for a game and no one is really that much of a home run threat. Mookie is off a little right now but so is most of the lineup. If we don't start hitting better we cannot make it up with superior pitching. Instead it will be frustrating losses 3 to 1 or against the Yankee 7 or 8 to 1. There has to be frustration mounting on the club. I don't see much potential for a remedy.

[illinoisredsox]

Watching the games last night and tonight, it is pretty clear that the Yankees are much more capable pf producing runs than we are at the present time. A decent pitcher leaves us with 4 or 5 hits for a game and no one is really that much of a home run threat. Mookie is off a little right now but so is most of the lineup. If we don't start hitting better we cannot make it up with superior pitching. Instead it will be frustrating losses 3 to 1 or against the Yankee 7 or 8 to 1. There has to be frustration mounting on the club. I don't see much potential for a remedy.

 

This is where they miss Ortiz. Yes, his presence in the line-up would have meant something (although expecting him to repeat last year would be a pipe dream). But he had a way of getting to players. He could get on them if they needed to be gotten on. Relax them with something goofy if that needed to be done. I don't see that type of player on this club. They need a Millar or a Damon, somebody who can loosen things up a little. They have too many of the same type player, quiet types. You need a mixture of both on a team.

[bosoxmal]

As Betts goes, so go the Red Sox. Been true for 2 years/ 228 AB, hitting .259? Not good news.

[Bellhorn04]

This is where they miss Ortiz. Yes, his presence in the line-up would have meant something (although expecting him to repeat last year would be a pipe dream). But he had a way of getting to players. He could get on them if they needed to be gotten on. Relax them with something goofy if that needed to be done. I don't see that type of player on this club. They need a Millar or a Damon, somebody who can loosen things up a little. They have too many of the same type player, quiet types. You need a mixture of both on a team.

 

But what about the Outfield Dance?

[moonslav59]

As Betts goes, so go the Red Sox. Been true for 2 years/ 228 AB, hitting .259? Not good news.

 

Betts has one of the team's highest WAR. He's not the problem or even close to being a concern.

 

His BA on May 18th 2016 was .256. (He was only at .269 on 5/28/16.)

 

His BA on June 11th 2015 was .234. (He was at .257 on June 18th.)

 

Betts has always been a slow starter. This doesn't mean he's going to get red hot to finish this year, but if I had to guess, I'd say he will end up close to last year's numbers.

 

Even with the slow start, his 162 game pace gives him 26 HRs and 95 RBIs.

[Station 13]

Betts BABIP is about 50 points below his career average, and watching the games, he is hitting into bad lucks. One would think he is fishing away like Sandoval looking at his numbers on the surface.

[Maxbialystock]

Betts has one of the team's highest WAR. He's not the problem or even close to being a concern.

 

His BA on May 18th 2016 was .256. (He was only at .269 on 5/28/16.)

 

His BA on June 11th 2015 was .234. (He was at .257 on June 18th.)

 

Betts has always been a slow starter. This doesn't mean he's going to get red hot to finish this year, but if I had to guess, I'd say he will end up close to last year's numbers.

 

Even with the slow start, his 162 game pace gives him 26 HRs and 95 RBIs.

 

So I have to ask: would agree this team needs at least one .900 OPS hitter? Last year we had two, Ortiz and Betts. This year we have none. I don't think Bogaerts will get there because of the power/dinger issue. And forget HanRam because all he wants to do his get his exercise at the plate by swinging as hard as he can. Benintendi is possible, but only that--and certainly not probable.

 

Which means, I think, that if a .900 hitter is kind of important, Betts needs to be that guy and isn't.

 

I will, however, grant you that Betts is only one of several--Pedroia, Beni, HanRam, JBJ, etc --underperformers on this team, hitting-wise.

[moonslav59]

So I have to ask: would agree this team needs at least one .900 OPS hitter? Last year we had two, Ortiz and Betts. This year we have none. I don't think Bogaerts will get there because of the power/dinger issue. And forget HanRam because all he wants to do his get his exercise at the plate by swinging as hard as he can. Benintendi is possible, but only that--and certainly not probable.

 

Which means, I think, that if a .900 hitter is kind of important, Betts needs to be that guy and isn't.

 

I will, however, grant you that Betts is only one of several--Pedroia, Beni, HanRam, JBJ, etc --underperformers on this team, hitting-wise.

 

I do think there are ways to win without a .900 hitters, but of course it's easier when we have one or two.

 

I do think Betts will end up near .900 by season's end.

 

I also think players like JBJ, Pedey and HRam should all significantly improve their OPS by year's end.

 

If it doesn't happen, then we may not have much of a chance, but I never base my future projections on the most recent 2 day, 2 week or 2 month sample size.

 

 

Just 2 days ago, many were optimistic. 2 days before that many were seriously down. It's been like a yo-yo for some here.

 

Take the long view. We have some very good players on this team. The last 2 games or 2 months does not change that.

 

Can several all have bad years at the same time? Sure.

 

Can or will they revert back closer to their norm (last 1-3 year numbers) as the season continues?

 

I say more likely than repeating the first 2 months over the next 4 months.

 

[Slasher9]

Betts BABIP is about 50 points below his career average, and watching the games, he is hitting into bad lucks. One would think he is fishing away like Sandoval looking at his numbers on the surface.

 

Sandoval's BABIP is 64 points below his career average.

[moonslav59]

Betts BABIP is about 50 points below his career average, and watching the games, he is hitting into bad lucks. One would think he is fishing away like Sandoval looking at his numbers on the surface.

 

Yes, and the numbers back this up:

 

Hard hit balls %:

 

31.7% 2015

33.4% 2016

36.8% 2017

 

His LD%, however, is down 2%. He's also pulling the ball more than ever (about 4% more).

 

The BAbip should right itself as the season progresses.

 

2015: .310

2016: .322

2017: .256

 

 

[Station 13]

Sandoval's BABIP is 64 points below his career average.

 

It should be lower, he chases everything.

[moonslav59]

Sandoval's BABIP is 64 points below his career average.

 

...and his LD% and Hard Hit Balls % are higher than his career numbers as well.

 

I'm still holding onto a sliver of hope this guy can help us going forward.

[Bellhorn04]

From Alex Speier's piece in the Globe today titled "These Red Sox feel like they're one bat short":

 

"Pineda's outing marked the 13th time this season that an opposing starter had thrown at least 5 innings without permitting an earned run against the Sox. No other team in the AL has been shut down in such complete fashion by opposing starters so frequently. (The Angels are the only other AL team against whom opposing starters have at least 10 such games.)"

[bosoxmal]

Betts has one of the team's highest WAR. He's not the problem or even close to being a concern.

 

His BA on May 18th 2016 was .256. (He was only at .269 on 5/28/16.)

 

His BA on June 11th 2015 was .234. (He was at .257 on June 18th.)

 

Betts has always been a slow starter. This doesn't mean he's going to get red hot to finish this year, but if I had to guess, I'd say he will end up close to last year's numbers.

 

Even with the slow start, his 162 game pace gives him 26 HRs and 95 RBIs.

You want to compare his BA in June 1917 to his BA in 1915? That makes no sense whatsoever. The fact is, when Mookie is hitting, the Sox are winning. When he is not hitting the Sox are losing. I repeat, "As Mookie Goes, So Go the Red Sox."

[Station 13]

From Alex Speier's piece in the Globe today titled "These Red Sox feel like they're one bat short":

 

"Pineda's outing marked the 13th time this season that an opposing starter had thrown at least 5 innings without permitting an earned run against the Sox. No other team in the AL has been shut down in such complete fashion by opposing starters so frequently. (The Angels are the only other AL team against whom opposing starters have at least 10 such games.)"

 

Also from that article, Sox scoring 2.5 runs average vs opposing starters, no wonder it feels like s*** watching the team all year.

[Maxbialystock]

A lot of negativity on this thread. Despite moonslav's admonitions that things will improve, I'm inclined to agree with the negativity because I think the biggest factor is the absence of Ortiz, which is unfixable.

 

With Ortiz gone, the next best thing beyond question is Betts, which means I pretty much agree with bosoxmal.

 

Might I add that we are in pretty uncharted waters this season--so far, anyway. Historically, a Sox team that ain't scoring a lot ain't winning. But these guys are winning--above .500 anyway--and are just 3 games back of the Yankees and in top position for a wild card slot. I mean, how bad can that be?

[moonslav59]

You want to compare his BA in June 1917 to his BA in 1915? That makes no sense whatsoever. The fact is, when Mookie is hitting, the Sox are winning. When he is not hitting the Sox are losing. I repeat, "As Mookie Goes, So Go the Red Sox."

 

My point is that the future (the rest of the season) might be brighter than the past with Mookie.

 

He's a notorious slow starter, so I expect him to do better, and as you point out, then the Sox will too.

[MADSTORK]

If you look at the Yankees lineup since Game 1 of the season with a few changes here and there, the 3 4 5 hitters all are right handed batters. Farrell publicly stated before the season started he likes a lefty righty, lefty righty lineup to keep the opposing pitcher off balance.

 

In my opinion your not putting out your best batting order on a daily basis in regards to that theory. Not to mention a rookie who has gone threw a terrible slump in the #2 and #4 positions in the order.

 

Pedroia

XB

Betts

Ramirez

Moreland

AB

Bradley

Sandoval

Catcher

 

You have Young and Travis to pinch hit in the later innings vs the LHR

[moonslav59]

A lot of negativity on this thread. Despite moonslav's admonitions that things will improve, I'm inclined to agree with the negativity because I think the biggest factor is the absence of Ortiz, which is unfixable.

 

With Ortiz gone, the next best thing beyond question is Betts, which means I pretty much agree with bosoxmal.

 

Might I add that we are in pretty uncharted waters this season--so far, anyway. Historically, a Sox team that ain't scoring a lot ain't winning. But these guys are winning--above .500 anyway--and are just 3 games back of the Yankees and in top position for a wild card slot. I mean, how bad can that be?

 

Since the Sox have never won a ring in my lifetime without a big bat (or two), it's hard to imagine how we could do it without one.

 

Maybe we can't.

 

I will say that I feel Betts will be near 30 Hrs and 110+ RBIs by the end of the season. If he's not, we may still sneak into the playoffs, and if (maybe a big if) we can cobble together 3 hot starters by playoff time, we'll have a good chance to make it to the WS.

 

I realize there are a lot of "ifs" here, but in the past our "ifs" were always about pitching. Now, the tables have seemingly turned.

 

I'm not without serious concerns about this team, but I still think our offense will (or should) come around.

 

Here are the Sox numbers over the last 365 days:

 

.894 Ramirez (34 HRs 102 RBIs)

.865 M Betts (26 Hrs 101 RBIs)

.790 Pedroia (10 69)

.783 Benintendi (10 45 in 315 ABs)

.780 Bogaerts (17 75)

.774 S Leon (11 50 in 361 ABs)

.759 Bradley (24 73)

.738 Young

.718 Vazquez

 

These are pretty good numbers.

 

No doubt, losing Papi hurts and will continue to hurt, but we have some pretty good hitters on this team. Except for Bogey, they just happen to not be hitting well so far this year.

 

[oldtimer]

If you look at the Yankees lineup since Game 1 of the season with a few changes here and there, the 3 4 5 hitters all are right handed batters. Farrell publicly stated before the season started he likes a lefty righty, lefty righty lineup to keep the opposing pitcher off balance.

 

In my opinion your not putting out your best batting order on a daily basis in regards to that theory. Not to mention a rookie who has gone threw a terrible slump in the #2 and #4 positions in the order.

 

Pedroia

XB

Betts

Ramirez

Moreland

AB

Bradley

Sandoval

Catcher

 

You have Young and Travis to pinch hit in the later innings vs the LHR

 

You can see from tonight that JF has made a number of moves in the lineup including sending Sam Travis to AAA. Pedroia is back so they either had to part with a guy or send Travis down so JF decided on a player with options. Now the lineup he chose keeps Betts at the leadoff, Pedroia second, Bogaerts stays in the third hole. Further along Moreland is now our firstbaseman and is hitting 4th with Beni 5th, Hanley is moved down to 6th, since he is slumping, Bradley is 7th and Leon 8th while 3rd base is 9th. We'll see if this shakeup motivates any hitters. JF said he wanted more lefthanded hitters closer together in the lineup.

[moonslav59]

You can see from tonight that JF has made a number of moves in the lineup including sending Sam Travis to AAA. Pedroia is back so they either had to part with a guy or send Travis down so JF decided on a player with options. Now the lineup he chose keeps Betts at the leadoff, Pedroia second, Bogaerts stays in the third hole. Further along Moreland is now our firstbaseman and is hitting 4th with Beni 5th, Hanley is moved down to 6th, since he is slumping, Bradley is 7th and Leon 8th while 3rd base is 9th. We'll see if this shakeup motivates any hitters. JF said he wanted more lefthanded hitters closer together in the lineup.

 

It's not much of a "shake-up", except for maybe HRam in the 6 slot.

 

Quite frankly, I don't get it. Beni is arguable in a slump more than HRam, but for some reason Beni always seems to be in the top 5 slots.

 

28 day OPS:

.946 JBJ

.854 Moreland

.804 Bogey

.756 HRam

.745 Pedey

.662 Vaz

.656 Betts

.592 Beni

 

14 Days...

.968 JBJ

.828 Moreland

.697 HRam

.683 Bogey

.679 Beni

.598 Betts

 

Only in the 7 day sample does Beni shine, but so does HRam:

1.271 Beni

.911 HRam

.782 Moreland

.649 Bogey

.566 JBJ

.558 Betts

[a700hitter]

Our pitchers are afraid to throw strikes, because we can't score runs to support them. Pitch counts are up to 100 in the 4th inning.

[moonslav59]

Our pitchers are afraid to throw strikes, because we can't score runs to support them. Pitch counts are up to 100 in the 4th inning.

 

We saw the same thing last year when scoring way more runs.

[a700hitter]

We saw the same thing last year when scoring way more runs.

Maybe so, but I don't remember it being this bad last year.

[Bellhorn04]

The funny thing is that if you knew Moreland would be OPS'ing 850 at this point you'd think our offense would be in pretty good shape.

[oldtimer]

The funny thing is that if you knew Moreland would be OPS'ing 850 at this point you'd think our offense would be in pretty good shape.

 

Our left handed batters came through tonight with Moreland and Bradley getting the decisive blows. The relief pitching held up and Kimbrel was great again. We need the wins at home after the two tough losses in NY and will a road trip facing us.

[moonslav59]

Maybe so, but I don't remember it being this bad last year.

 

Pretty close.

 

2016: 6.0 IP/GS

2017: 5.9 IP/GS

 

[moonslav59]

The funny thing is that if you knew Moreland would be OPS'ing 850 at this point you'd think our offense would be in pretty good shape.

 

For sure.

 

It's been a strange season for our offense.

[oldtimer]

For sure.

 

It's been a strange season for our offense.

 

I have often thought that a stat for how many times a player takes the collar versus games played in would reveal more about a players offensive value than some of the available stats. A player can go off against weak pitching and perhaps build BA and RBI stats, but then take the collar day after day and have the same offensive stats as a guy who hits in more games and is a lot more consistent. I find no place where such a stat exists.

[Kimmi]

Since you started it, I now feel like its ok to criticize Mookie. I was going to bring it up, but I was afraid to take the heat. I have been an off and on critic of Mookie but sometimes it is taken as bashing. I think the excitement over some of Mookie's exploits overshadow any talk of weaknesses in his game. It's probably too early in his career to accurately gauge what kind of hitter he really is. But you are correct, he has not been hitting lately.

 

Anyone who knows the least bit about me knows that I am the last person who would ever 'bash' any of our players. My post, and I'm sure your posts as well, are in no way meant to bash him. I just don't understand why he is getting a free pass from most in regards to our team's offensive struggles.

 

I know he's been unlucky in terms of BABIP. I am not concerned about him in the long run. But that doesn't mean that he hasn't been part of our offensive struggles. He's one of the guys who is supposed to lead the offensive charge.