Sox hitting??

[Bellhorn04]

No, I'm actually backing up my opinion. It's you and some others that are clinging on to a theory that can't ever actually be proven unless you have a f***ing time machine. DO YOU have a time machine? If so, help me out..... I'd like to do Senior year over.

 

My theory is that the team has their own good reasons for how they set the lineup based on statistical review and knowledge of the players that goes far beyond what anyone has here.

[cp176]

My theory is that the team has their own good reasons for how they set the lineup based on statistical review and knowledge of the players that goes far beyond what anyone has here.

 

No one is really disagreeing with you. I think that we all know there might be many reasons for batting Betts and others where they bat them. My contention will always be that a reliance on statistical data alone to determine what an ideal batting order should be is flawed. You want to support your idea? I'm pretty sure you can find statistics to support it. Good! No one I hope is suggesting they know more than the people in charge. We might know as much about how the actual game is played as most here though.

[sk7326]

With lineups - some of the players care and many don't - so accomodate the guys who care and fit the rest around. At the same time, 2nd best record in the AL, solid 94 win pace. Things have been steadily improving - given the ability to create baserunners, it almost had to.

[Kimmi]

Get going Hanley........ we need a him to drive some runs in..............

 

Hanley has been hot the last 4 games, and he rakes in Texas.

 

Christopher Smith‏Verified account @SmittyOnMLB 7h7 hours ago

 

Hanley Ramirez is 9-for-20 with a homer, three doubles, four RBIs and six runs in his past four games for the Red Sox.

 

Hanley Ramirez has 6 HRs, 2 doubles, 13 RBIs and a .395/.465/.921/1.386 line in 10 games (43 PA) at Globe Life Park where Red Sox play next

[sk7326]

Hanley has been hot the last 4 games, and he rakes in Texas.

 

Christopher Smith‏Verified account @SmittyOnMLB 7h7 hours ago

 

Hanley Ramirez is 9-for-20 with a homer, three doubles, four RBIs and six runs in his past four games for the Red Sox.

 

Hanley Ramirez has 6 HRs, 2 doubles, 13 RBIs and a .395/.465/.921/1.386 line in 10 games (43 PA) at Globe Life Park where Red Sox play next

 

What is funny is that Hanley's season has had its issues but the approach has largely been solid - unlike 2015. He has managed to still get on base at a pretty good clip considering the struggles.

[Kimmi]

OK, gang, it was just the Blue Jays--you know, last in the AL East. Nevertheless, it is possible that we are getting close to the point where we can declare that this stupid thread (which I started) has worn out its welcome. Platooning Lin and Marrero seems to work, so does Vazquez and Leon. HanRam might indeed be coming around. Of the four killer B's, Betts and the now steady (who woulda thunk that?) JBJ have rocketed past Bogaerts and could both be headed toward .900 OPS's, and Bogaerts, Pedroia, and Moreland are all doing fine if not great.

 

I have argued ad nauseum that Ortiz left a big hole. I still think that, but now agree with Kimmi and others that just maybe the Sox can fill that hole with multiple contributions. Nevertheless I will ask the obvious question, should DD still go after a big bat to get us through the 2d half of the season (something I have been opposed to and obviously still am)?

 

A bat would definitely help, though the key is still having our current guys hitting like they are capable of hitting. I have no doubt that Dombrowski will improve our 3B. The question is how he goes about doing that.

 

I would not deplete the farm of any of our top prospects, though I don't think Dombrowski would have an issue doing that. I would look for an inexpensive trade for a solid, professional 3B. If one cannot be found at a reasonable price, then I'd call up Devers.

[Kimmi]

My theory is that the team has their own good reasons for how they set the lineup based on statistical review and knowledge of the players that goes far beyond what anyone has here.

 

Knowledge of the players is a big consideration. Line up tweaks make so little difference that it is more beneficial to put a batter where he feels the most comfortable.

[Kimmi]

No one is really disagreeing with you. I think that we all know there might be many reasons for batting Betts and others where they bat them. My contention will always be that a reliance on statistical data alone to determine what an ideal batting order should be is flawed. You want to support your idea? I'm pretty sure you can find statistics to support it. Good! No one I hope is suggesting they know more than the people in charge. We might know as much about how the actual game is played as most here though.

 

There is no reliance on statistical data alone. I have stated many times that putting a batter where he feels comfortable would be more beneficial than trying to put a batter in his prototypical slot. Unless, of course, a manager is willing to buck all tradition and go completely against the grain.

 

I post my data only to debate your opinion that your best RBI guy bats 3rd. You are basing that opinion on the 'that's the way it's always been done' argument, which less to do with knowing the underlying reasons for batting Betts where he is batting as the statistical data does.

[Emp9]

A bat would definitely help, though the key is still having our current guys hitting like they are capable of hitting. I have no doubt that Dombrowski will improve our 3B. The question is how he goes about doing that.

 

I would not deplete the farm of any of our top prospects, though I don't think Dombrowski would have an issue doing that. I would look for an inexpensive trade for a solid, professional 3B. If one cannot be found at a reasonable price, then I'd call up Devers.

 

I agree. And the bats are starting to wake up. We're finally starting to beat-up our immediate competition in the AL East, sweeping Toronto. We're 3 games up on NYY. I agree, 3B quagmire isn't the ONLY reason for our struggles. Every team has holes, and 3B just happens to be one of ours. Doesn't mean we can't make do somehow. Like you said (& I've been keeping track as well), we have a better record than last season's team at this point. I can't complain about that.

[Kimmi]

With lineups - some of the players care and many don't - so accomodate the guys who care and fit the rest around. At the same time, 2nd best record in the AL, solid 94 win pace. Things have been steadily improving - given the ability to create baserunners, it almost had to.

 

Bravo.

[Kimmi]

I agree. And the bats are starting to wake up. We're finally starting to beat-up our immediate competition in the AL East, sweeping Toronto. We're 3 games up on NYY. I agree, 3B quagmire isn't the ONLY reason for our struggles. Every team has holes, and 3B just happens to be one of ours. Doesn't mean we can't make do somehow. Like you said (& I've been keeping track as well), we have a better record than last season's team at this point. I can't complain about that.

 

Who knows? Pablo might even be the answer to our 3B problem.

 

But yeah, you have to feel pretty good about a 3 game lead and a better record than last season, especially considering our struggles.

[Dojji]

A bat would definitely help, though the key is still having our current guys hitting like they are capable of hitting. I have no doubt that Dombrowski will improve our 3B. The question is how he goes about doing that.

 

I would not deplete the farm of any of our top prospects, though I don't think Dombrowski would have an issue doing that. I would look for an inexpensive trade for a solid, professional 3B. If one cannot be found at a reasonable price, then I'd call up Devers.

 

if the Franchise thought Devers was ready to be called up he would be with the team right now. The need is there. The prospect is there. The only reason the prospect isn't filling the need is, and I guarantee this, DD's scouts are telling him that Devers can't do the job yet.

 

Expecting Devers to jump 2 levels and magically be ready just because the franchise has failed to plan adequately for the third base position is a classic example of wishful thinking.

 

Yes he will take over 3b eventually. We hope. When he's ready. Demanding that he somehow magically be ready now is foolish and more likely to waste our best remaining asset than actually solve the problem.

 

I would rather throw this season away or gamble on Pablo than risk wasting Devers. Leave him where he is until the franchise is comfortable that he's fully ready. And I mean fully ready, not desperation-in-an-emergency-the-same-way-we-murdered-Will-Middlebrooks ready. Until he is ready, work as much of Pablo's money out of him as you can. That's literally the only job left Pablo is good for.

[S5Dewey]

if the Franchise thought Devers was ready to be called up he would be with the team right now. The need is there. The prospect is there. The only reason the prospect isn't filling the need is, and I guarantee this, DD's scouts are telling him that Devers can't do the job yet.

 

Expecting Devers to jump 2 levels and magically be ready just because the franchise has failed to plan adequately for the third base position is a classic example of wishful thinking.

 

Yes he will take over 3b eventually. We hope. When he's ready. Demanding that he somehow magically be ready now is foolish and more likely to waste our best remaining asset than actually solve the problem.

 

I would rather throw this season away or gamble on Pablo than risk wasting Devers. Leave him where he is until the franchise is comfortable that he's fully ready. And I mean fully ready, not desperation-in-an-emergency-the-same-way-we-murdered-Will-Middlebrooks ready. Until he is ready, work as much of Pablo's money out of him as you can. That's literally the only job left Pablo is good for.

 

I'm torn on this issue. Every time I start thinking they should keep Devers in the minors until he's "ready" I ask myself if the Nats f***ed up big time when the put Stephen Strassburg on the shelf right before the playoffs to save his arm.

[Nick]

if the Franchise thought Devers was ready to be called up he would be with the team right now. The need is there. The prospect is there. The only reason the prospect isn't filling the need is, and I guarantee this, DD's scouts are telling him that Devers can't do the job yet.

 

Expecting Devers to jump 2 levels and magically be ready just because the franchise has failed to plan adequately for the third base position is a classic example of wishful thinking.

 

Yes he will take over 3b eventually. We hope. When he's ready. Demanding that he somehow magically be ready now is foolish and more likely to waste our best remaining asset than actually solve the problem.

 

I would rather throw this season away or gamble on Pablo than risk wasting Devers. Leave him where he is until the franchise is comfortable that he's fully ready. And I mean fully ready, not desperation-in-an-emergency-the-same-way-we-murdered-Will-Middlebrooks ready. Until he is ready, work as much of Pablo's money out of him as you can. That's literally the only job left Pablo is good for.

 

What's the difference between a "ready" player failing and a "not ready" player failing? Just as management make mistakes on 'ready' player, they could easily make a mistake on 'not ready' player.

 

Is it possible that Will Middlebrooks was never cut out to be a long term major leaguer?

 

I completely reject the notion that if you don't first succeed you're doomed?

 

Jackie Bradley Jr. vehemently disagrees with you.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the issue with Devers is mainly about his defense not being ready?

[S5Dewey]

Who knows? Pablo might even be the answer to our 3B problem.

 

But yeah, you have to feel pretty good about a 3 game lead and a better record than last season, especially considering our struggles.

 

Who, whoa... let's pump the brakes a little here. As someone said some time ago, "Let's not start sucking each other's dicks yet. We've still got work to do". (one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies, btw.)

 

We're in first place by 3 games not only because the Sox are playing better but also because both the Yankees and the O's - both of whom looked unbeatable when playing the Sox - have hit the skids. We're only a 4 game losing streak from being #2 again.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I like this team but baseball has its ups and downs. Right now we're riding the crest of the wave. Let's hope we ride it long enough to build a commanding lead in the division, but at the same time remember that sooner or later this wave will crash down.

[Emp9]

Oh, you bringin' in The Wolf?! That's all you had to say

[S5Dewey]

Oh, you bringin' in The Wolf?! That's all you had to say

 

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

 

Probably one of the reasons I like that line so much is because it suddenly brings everything back into perspective.

[Bellhorn04]

Holy crap...I like that line too but...it's a good thing Kimmi has a sense of humor...

[Emp9]

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

 

Probably one of the reasons I like that line so much is because it suddenly brings everything back into perspective.

 

Well, the Sox haven't lost 4 games in a row all season long. It's kinda hard to do, dare I say it, with Sale and 3-4 other capable SPs and the pitching staff as a whole, all the way down to Kimbrel. The team seems to be firing on all cylinders right now, but that's been their MO, they're a 2nd half team. Unless some devestating injury happens, I want to lean towards their history of past recent seasons. I never bought into Bal and NY being THAT good in the 1st place. TB could make a run for our money though.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Emp9
spelling

[moonslav59]

We have now jumped to 11th in runs scored...just 4 runs behind the top 10 tier.

We are 7 runs from being top 8.

 

I had given up hope on ending the season being top 3, 4 or 5, but noe, even that seems within reach. We are 33 runs from 5th place and 40 runs from 4th place. It might be too hard to ctahc the Yanks for 3rd (53 runs behind), but I'll take top 5 or 6.

 

We are 5th in OBP just .007 from first and very close to being 3rd. OBP used to be the major factor in scoring runs, but now that the HR is back, we have noticed other teams scoring more than us.

 

We rank 16th in SLG...just .011 from 10th place despite being 26th in HRs 50 away from the league leading Astros. It will be hard for us to reach the top 15 in HRs, but I'm not sure we need to get there to win it all. We are 19 HRs fro #15. .

[cp176]

There is no reliance on statistical data alone. I have stated many times that putting a batter where he feels comfortable would be more beneficial than trying to put a batter in his prototypical slot. Unless, of course, a manager is willing to buck all tradition and go completely against the grain.

 

I post my data only to debate your opinion that your best RBI guy bats 3rd. You are basing that opinion on the 'that's the way it's always been done' argument, which less to do with knowing the underlying reasons for batting Betts where he is batting as the statistical data does.

 

yup - ok - You aren't the only person supporting the idea of leading off with Betts. i'm not alone in my opinion. Betts would be a better fit hitting third for us.

[cp176]

yup - ok - You aren't the only person supporting the idea of leading off with Betts. i'm not alone in my opinion. Betts would be a better fit hitting third for us.

 

Although, I will also add that I am enjoying the fact that we are winning more than where any individual hits in the lineup.

[Kimmi]

if the Franchise thought Devers was ready to be called up he would be with the team right now. The need is there. The prospect is there. The only reason the prospect isn't filling the need is, and I guarantee this, DD's scouts are telling him that Devers can't do the job yet.

 

Expecting Devers to jump 2 levels and magically be ready just because the franchise has failed to plan adequately for the third base position is a classic example of wishful thinking.

 

Yes he will take over 3b eventually. We hope. When he's ready. Demanding that he somehow magically be ready now is foolish and more likely to waste our best remaining asset than actually solve the problem.

 

I would rather throw this season away or gamble on Pablo than risk wasting Devers. Leave him where he is until the franchise is comfortable that he's fully ready. And I mean fully ready, not desperation-in-an-emergency-the-same-way-we-murdered-Will-Middlebrooks ready. Until he is ready, work as much of Pablo's money out of him as you can. That's literally the only job left Pablo is good for.

 

I do not disagree Dojji with most of your post. I have said many times that the FO should not act rashly. I should have added the stipulation of calling up Devers, if he is ready. That said, IMO, if Dombrowski feels 'desperate' enough, he will call up Devers whether he is fully ready or not.

[Kimmi]

Who, whoa... let's pump the brakes a little here. As someone said some time ago, "Let's not start sucking each other's dicks yet. We've still got work to do". (one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies, btw.)

 

We're in first place by 3 games not only because the Sox are playing better but also because both the Yankees and the O's - both of whom looked unbeatable when playing the Sox - have hit the skids. We're only a 4 game losing streak from being #2 again.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I like this team but baseball has its ups and downs. Right now we're riding the crest of the wave. Let's hope we ride it long enough to build a commanding lead in the division, but at the same time remember that sooner or later this wave will crash down.

 

I have not crowned us Division Champs yet. I'm just saying that I feel pretty good having a 3 game lead at this point.

[Kimmi]

Holy crap...I like that line too but...it's a good thing Kimmi has a sense of humor...

 

I really don't even know what you guys are yapping about half the time (with the non baseball talk).

 

The other half the time I just pretend like I didn't see it.

[Kimmi]

Well, the Sox haven't lost 4 games in a row all season long. It's kinda hard to do, dare I say it, with Sale and 3-4 other capable SPs and the pitching staff as a whole, all the way down to Kimbrel. The team seems to be firing on all cylinders right now, but that's been their MO, they're a 2nd half team. Unless some devestating injury happens, I want to lean towards their history of past recent seasons. I never bought into Bal and NY being THAT good in the 1st place. TB could make a run for our money though.

 

I didn't either. I stated several times that they were playing over their heads. That said, I still wouldn't count either team out. The Yankees have the resources to make some moves at the deadline, if they choose to.

[Kimmi]

yup - ok - You aren't the only person supporting the idea of leading off with Betts. i'm not alone in my opinion. Betts would be a better fit hitting third for us.

 

Why? Because that's the way it's always been?

 

My point is that how do you know Betts would be more comfortable or a better fit hitting 3rd than he is hitting 1st? Your opinion of what type of batter should hit 3rd does not take into account Betts' comfort level and human element any more than the statistics saying he should bat 1st does.

[a700hitter]

Why? Because that's the way it's always been?

 

My point is that how do you know Betts would be more comfortable or a better fit hitting 3rd than he is hitting 1st? Your opinion of what type of batter should hit 3rd does not take into account Betts' comfort level and human element any more than the statistics saying he should bat 1st does.

Comfort level with where a player hits in the batting order is real and measurable, but clutch is neither?

[Kimmi]

Comfort level with where a player hits in the batting order is real and measurable, but clutch is neither?

 

Comfort level is real. I didn't say it was measurable. I leave that up to the manager to decipher.