A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[Beaneater]

2000 ERA (This blows my mind!)

1.74 Pedro

3.70 Clemens

3.79 Mussina

3.79 Sirotka

3.88 Colon

 

That is unreal.

[dannycater]

Here's the best part of that 5some although it was more about Pedro striking domination of the AL ERA title. Pedro-Sox. Clemens-former Sox. Mussina-should have been Sox, but last second Yank, thus allowing DD to net Manny, and Colon, who later played for Sox and incredibly 17 years later was still in MLB.

[Maxbialystock]

When Pedro was robbed of the MVP, I gave up caring about such awards.

 

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for. Plus they only pitch/play every 5th day. Plus, on the days they pitch, they don't have to hit or run the bases or, really, field very much. If they make an error, it even helps their ERA.

 

But to me the biggest factor is that pitchers don't have to put up with the meat grinder that a 162 game season has become, especially with games lasting longer and longer. This is also why I don't believe in DH as MVP's.

 

I don't mind admitting that in its purest sense "most valuable player" can apply to a pitcher or a DH. My complaint is that neither pays his dues by going out there and manning a position game after game after game. They may be talented and valuable, but they aren't real baseball players.

[dannycater]

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for. Plus they only pitch/play every 5th day. Plus, on the days they pitch, they don't have to hit or run the bases or, really, field very much. If they make an error, it even helps their ERA.

 

But to me the biggest factor is that pitchers don't have to put up with the meat grinder that a 162 game season has become, especially with games lasting longer and longer. This is also why I don't believe in DH as MVP's.

 

I don't mind admitting that in its purest sense "most valuable player" can apply to a pitcher or a DH. My complaint is that neither pays his dues by going out there and manning a position game after game after game. They may be talented and valuable, but they aren't real baseball players.

 

As a member of the VinaGosko March N Chowdah Society, when you start making statements that pitchers don't pay their dues, you are completely daft.

[harmony]

Judge will slump: Sale will get even better.

I recently traded for Chris Sale in fantasy baseball but I expect the lefthander to regress. Sale has already exceeded last year's fWAR.

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for. Plus they only pitch/play every 5th day. Plus, on the days they pitch, they don't have to hit or run the bases or, really, field very much. If they make an error, it even helps their ERA.

 

But to me the biggest factor is that pitchers don't have to put up with the meat grinder that a 162 game season has become, especially with games lasting longer and longer. This is also why I don't believe in DH as MVP's.

 

I don't mind admitting that in its purest sense "most valuable player" can apply to a pitcher or a DH. My complaint is that neither pays his dues by going out there and manning a position game after game after game. They may be talented and valuable, but they aren't real baseball players.

 

It's not so much about games: it's about PAs. I've never bought the 162 games vs 33 game argument. Here's why...

 

Pedro

 

1999: 835 batters faced

 

2000: 817 batters faced

 

No batter ever reaches over 800 PAs.

 

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for.

 

Batters have Silver Slugger awards that no AL pitcher can ever win.

[dgalehouse]

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for.

 

Batters have Silver Slugger awards that no AL pitcher can ever win.

 

As a rule , I think the MVP should be for an every day player. Pedro was the exception to the rule. Generally speaking , the MVP is for the player of the year. The Cy Young is for the pitcher of the year. The Silver Slugger Award is not remotely comparable.

[moonslav59]

As a rule , I think the MVP should be for an every day player. Pedro was the exception to the rule. Generally speaking , the MVP is for the player of the year. The Cy Young is for the pitcher of the year. The Silver Slugger Award is not remotely comparable.

 

It's not comparable, because they've made the MVP into the top hitter award.

 

Cy Young= Best pitcher

Silver Slugger= Best hitter

Gold Glove= Best fielder

 

MVP= Best player.

 

If someone wants to credit an everyday player more than a SP'er who usually has faced over 800 batters, that's okay with me, but to leave Pedro off the ballot all together made the award useless to me. I just don't care about any of these awards anymore. The Gold Glove award is an even bigger joke. They gave the award to a DH one year, for God's sake!

 

[sk7326]

As a rule , I think the MVP should be for an every day player. Pedro was the exception to the rule. Generally speaking , the MVP is for the player of the year. The Cy Young is for the pitcher of the year. The Silver Slugger Award is not remotely comparable.

 

pitchers are players.

 

When Eck and Willie Hernandez won MVPs it was a sick joke. (not as bad as Mark Moseley somehow winning NFL MVP once) But the years Clemens and Verlander won were totally justified. Starters pitch 35 times but have a much more direct impact on the game than any position player does.

[sk7326]

I'm pretty opposed to pitcher MVP's myself. They already have the Cy Young award which position players are ineligible for. Plus they only pitch/play every 5th day. Plus, on the days they pitch, they don't have to hit or run the bases or, really, field very much. If they make an error, it even helps their ERA.

 

But to me the biggest factor is that pitchers don't have to put up with the meat grinder that a 162 game season has become, especially with games lasting longer and longer. This is also why I don't believe in DH as MVP's.

 

I don't mind admitting that in its purest sense "most valuable player" can apply to a pitcher or a DH. My complaint is that neither pays his dues by going out there and manning a position game after game after game. They may be talented and valuable, but they aren't real baseball players.

 

Position players are eligible - it's just that they can't pitch well enough!

 

A DH absolutely should be an MVP candidate - but when you give up the chance to contribute on the defensive end, that should matter as well. Simply playing a position (badly - see Miggy) should not earn any points.

[moonslav59]

Would anyone be interested in trading for Lowrie (.805 OPS) & Doolittle (0.689 WHIP/12.8 K/9)?

 

It might not be as costly as other options out there.

[sk7326]

Would anyone be interested in trading for Lowrie (.805 OPS) & Doolittle (0.689 WHIP/12.8 K/9)?

 

It might not be as costly as other options out there.

 

That is a more sensible idea.

[oldtimer]

Just finished watching the game and was pleased with the win, although the Yankees gave it to us. We squandered several chances early on, including a bases loaded no out situation with the top of the order up. Smart hitting would have got us more than one run, but other than Pedroia we didn't look smart at the plate.

 

Pomeranz made a mistake to Sanchez. Don't know why he threw a fastball down the center of the plate when he had him set up for his effective curve ball. Otherwise, Pomeranz had a good performance.

 

The notable performances for me were

 

#1 Hanley who hit a two run shot, a hard hit single and worried the Yankees enough to draw a pass in the 9th. Good to see him have a that game.

#2 Pedroia is a smart player and hitter and tonight was important with his crafty hitting.

#3 Lin came in and made a nice catch and put up a good at bat, even though he finally struck out.

#4 Beni came in an put in a charge on a ball for an out but then also drew the final walk. I really think had he not been walked he would have hit a ball to the outfield and won it anyway.

 

I came away still thinking the Sox need some help in the hitting department and that DD must see that and knows he has to do something. The Yankees put up an all star from triple A tonight and he was overmatched at the plate. Maybe Devers would also have a lot of trouble makeing the adjustment. I am hoping for a trade that will give us one more good bat, although Lin impresses me.

[moonslav59]

Just finished watching the game and was pleased with the win, although the Yankees gave it to us. We squandered several chances early on, including a bases loaded no out situation with the top of the order up. Smart hitting would have got us more than one run, but other than Pedroia we didn't look smart at the plate.

 

Pomeranz made a mistake to Sanchez. Don't know why he threw a fastball down the center of the plate when he had him set up for his effective curve ball. Otherwise, Pomeranz had a good performance.

 

The notable performances for me were

 

#1 Hanley who hit a two run shot, a hard hit single and worried the Yankees enough to draw a pass in the 9th. Good to see him have a that game.

#2 Pedroia is a smart player and hitter and tonight was important with his crafty hitting.

#3 Lin came in and made a nice catch and put up a good at bat, even though he finally struck out.

#4 Beni came in an put in a charge on a ball for an out but then also drew the final walk. I really think had he not been walked he would have hit a ball to the outfield and won it anyway.

 

I came away still thinking the Sox need some help in the hitting department and that DD must see that and knows he has to do something. The Yankees put up an all star from triple A tonight and he was overmatched at the plate. Maybe Devers would also have a lot of trouble makeing the adjustment. I am hoping for a trade that will give us one more good bat, although Lin impresses me.

 

Great win.

 

I'm glad they put HRam 4th.

 

Some were calling us to trade for a big bat to platoon with him.

[SoxHop]

Great win.

 

I'm glad they put HRam 4th.

 

Some were calling us to trade for a big bat to platoon with him.

 

Hanram seems to be heating up. I think the last 10 game road trip he started hitting some bombs......... we need him to perform...

[moonslav59]

Hanram seems to be heating up. I think the last 10 game road trip he started hitting some bombs......... we need him to perform...

 

Yes, and we'll need HRam to be a force from here on out.

 

I'm confident he can help lead us to something special.

[oldtimer]

Yes, and we'll need HRam to be a force from here on out.

 

I'm confident he can help lead us to something special.

 

I forgot to mention the double steal last night which was also important to the win. Chapman, like a lot of closers, doesn't seem to hold guys well.

[Spudboy]

Yes, and we'll need HRam to be a force from here on out.

 

I'm confident he can help lead us to something special.

 

I'm not.

 

The guy is a sloth.

 

He cares only about Hanley and can not be relied upon to perform well consistently.

 

He used to get by with his supreme athleticism but now is impactful randomly.

 

I want him to do well because he is on my favorite team. Otherwise, I can't wait for the clown to be gone.

[SoxHop]

I forgot to mention the double steal last night which was also important to the win. Chapman, like a lot of closers, doesn't seem to hold guys well.

 

That was real heads up ball right there.

[S5Dewey]

I'm not.

 

The guy is a sloth.

 

He cares only about Hanley and can not be relied upon to perform well consistently.

 

He used to get by with his supreme athleticism but now is impactful randomly.

 

I want him to do well because he is on my favorite team. Otherwise, I can't wait for the clown to be gone.

 

I wish I didn't agree with this post... but I do. :-(

 

It seems like every time he does something good his next act is to find a TV camera and preen for it.

 

Then last night after the big win over the Yankees he was absolutely rude to the NESN guy interviewing him. He gave stock answers to a couple of questions - which is ok with me, they all do that - and then ended the interview by proclaiming that he was 'out of there' and left the NESN guy there alone. Kudos to NESN for trying to put the best face on the situation.

 

Like Spud, I hope he does very well for the Sox this year because they team needs for him to do well, but I'm getting tired of his me-me-me schtick.

[bowman]

Again, Hanley is not a money player, and will let you down more than he will come through. Too many times he comes up and instead of trying to make contact to drive in a run he swings from his ass and at pitches out of the zone. He is a head case. Wish we could send him packing too, but any production he does put up is badley needed because we still have a couple voids to fill. Be nice to bring in Frazier and get him on tract and maybe try to resign him. Right now 1b, 3d, dh, are far from being locked down positions. Moreland is hot and cold, Hanley??, and 3d until Devers is actually here and producing is still a problem. If DD makes one or two right moves, we may have the fire power to make a deep run. I for sure wouldn't trade someone like Devers or Groome for a rental. Going forward, I would have no problem trading a blue chipper for an impact player but he needs to be under team control...

[Nick]

I'm not.

 

The guy is a sloth.

 

He cares only about Hanley and can not be relied upon to perform well consistently.

 

He used to get by with his supreme athleticism but now is impactful randomly.

 

I want him to do well because he is on my favorite team. Otherwise, I can't wait for the clown to be gone.

 

Actually I'm right with you. Fair or unfair, I get the impression his teammates simply tolerate him. He just looks to me like a stupid baseball player. Look I've coached and I've had smart kids that were stupid inside the sport. Hell he maybe a genius off the field but just doesn't make intelligent decisions on the field.

[moonslav59]

I'm not.

 

The guy is a sloth.

 

He cares only about Hanley and can not be relied upon to perform well consistently.

 

He used to get by with his supreme athleticism but now is impactful randomly.

 

I want him to do well because he is on my favorite team. Otherwise, I can't wait for the clown to be gone.

 

You don't get to be in "supreme" athletic shape by being a "sloth."

 

HRam is a beast. He's been battling an injury and still doing well.

 

He's come on strong recently.

 

Moreland has been slumping badly. Beni has looked like a great platoon hitter. I'd be fine with JBJ at clean-up and HRam 5th, but I think it's time to end the Moreland as clean-up, at least for now. He did a great job for us over the first have, and he's battling an injury as well, but it time to make some slight changes to the line-up.

[moonslav59]

Again, Hanley is not a money player, and will let you down more than he will come through. Too many times he comes up and instead of trying to make contact to drive in a run he swings from his ass and at pitches out of the zone. He is a head case. Wish we could send him packing too, but any production he does put up is badley needed because we still have a couple voids to fill. Be nice to bring in Frazier and get him on tract and maybe try to resign him. Right now 1b, 3d, dh, are far from being locked down positions. Moreland is hot and cold, Hanley??, and 3d until Devers is actually here and producing is still a problem. If DD makes one or two right moves, we may have the fire power to make a deep run. I for sure wouldn't trade someone like Devers or Groome for a rental. Going forward, I would have no problem trading a blue chipper for an impact player but he needs to be under team control...

 

I disagree.

 

HRam has ripped the ball many times this year, when it counted. Some have gone for loud outs, but he's also gotten his fair share of useful hits.

 

The numbers back up my opinion:

 

Late & Close OPS:

.903 BEtts

.835 Pedey

.814 HRam

.812 JBJ

.809 Bogey

.774 Beni

.724 Moreland

.670 Leon

.399 Vaz

[Emp9]

HanRam has been somewhat pedestrian but he doesn't suck. All he needs is one good month for his numbers to skyrocket. We know what he's capable of.

 

HanRam's not the problem just because he rubs some the wrong way for whatever reason. I think if you throw in another .280-.300 hitter in the lineup, this offense will be just fine (preferably at 3B who can play average to above average defense).

 

S5, what interview are you talking about? The on-field interview after the game? If so, I didn't find anything he said to be anything but what a normal teammate would say.

[S5Dewey]

HanRam has been somewhat pedestrian but he doesn't suck. All he needs is one good month for his numbers to skyrocket. We know what he's capable of.

 

HanRam's not the problem just because he rubs some the wrong way for whatever reason. I think if you throw in another .280-.300 hitter in the lineup, this offense will be just fine (preferably at 3B who can play average to above average defense).

 

S5, what interview are you talking about? The on-field interview after the game? If so, I didn't find anything he said to be anything but what a normal teammate would say.

 

Yes, I agree with what he said. It was textbook "make an appearance and say nothing". I find questions like, "How does hitting that HR make you feel" are a waste of time and insulting to everyone. I mean.. what's he going to say other than what he says? Unfortunately it's what they're expected to do.

 

My issue is with how abruptly he walked away from the NESN guy, who obviously had another softball question or two to ask. IMO it was "cheezy" of him to do that, like he has more important things to do than to talk to reporters.

[moonslav59]

HRam is far far far away from the weakest link on our team.

 

There's no way he should be benched or platooned, especially as he has been one of our hottest hitters.

 

I don't see any attitude issues, but I can see how some look at his history, his manner with the media or maybe his "dreads" and come to conclusions, but I've never heard any player or coach even hint at any issues with his attitude.

 

I don't by the "sloth" argument. Unless he ends up testing positive for roids, you don't get to look like he does by slouching or being lazy. It reminds me of how Manny was called lazy, even though he was usually the first to arrive to the park and the last to leave. His extra batting practice was legendary, yet we were told by some, "He didn't care."

 

Let's cut some slack for our players, or else nobody will ever want to play here anymore.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Now that Kelly is heading to the DL, let's look back at all the pitching injuries for just the first half of 2017:

 

SP1 Sale 0

SP2 Price 10 starts missed (returned)

SP3 Porcello 0

SP4 ERod 10 starts missed (returning soon)

SP5 Wright to miss 27 starts

SP6 Pomeranz 0

SP7 Kendrick 0

SP8 Velazquez 0

SP9 Johnson (out hurt after 4 starts)

SP10 Fister 0

SP11 Elias (out all year)

 

RP1 Kimbrel 0

RP2 C Smith (Out all year but may return)

RP3 Thornburg (out all year)

RP4 Joe Kelly (Just went on DL)

RP5 R Ross (Has been on DL most of the season)

RP6 Barnes 0

RP7 Hembree 0

RP8 Abad 0

RP9 Scott 0

RP10 Workman (was out for most of first half)

RP11 Boyer 0

RP12 Taylor 0

RP13 A Maddox 0

RP14 N Ramirez 0

 

(Did I miss any DL's?)

 

 

 

[oldtimer]

I just quit watching the game at the end of the 11th. The Sox had many chances to score but haven't been able. I can't take any more tonight. Last inning Pedie got to 2nd with no one out. Our top of the order and 3,4,5 hitters look helpless. Beni has hit well but should have made it to third on JBJ's hit but didn't make the try and would have scored on a fly ball. I hope for the best.