A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[moonslav59]

Cashman was smart signing lights out Relievers, knowing the return these guys bring, especially at the July 31 Deadline. He'll probably do it again with Chapman, not this year, but his value will be high again next 2 years.

 

We did pretty good getting ERod for Miller, but I had hoped we went younger for Lester & Lackey.

[d-money]

Maybe judge can hook Hanley with some of that juice!

[moonslav59]

Oye. Moon you are simply too kind to Pablow. Under no circumstances should you be planning on his plumtitude being on the Sox roster next year. He can not make plays at 3rd, is a shell of his slap hitting self at the plate, and is not exactly Lou Brock on the base paths.

 

Now if by Devine Intervention Pablow starts pounding the ball with XBH galore and a high OBP I would consider keeping him on the roster through this year.

 

The guy is done. It will be further embarrassment for the Sox FO to discharge this lump of goo and eat his $60. mil or so. But that will only be temporary. His presence is hurting this team. Keeping him is just f***ing stupid business.

 

I say give him until the end of June to start playing well and producing. When he fails, cut him free.

 

No where did I ever say or imply that we should PLAN on Pablo being any significant part of next year's roster.

 

I said "assuming he shows some life" this year.

 

I am not confident he will.

 

On another thread I mentioned how I might not even give him one more month to "prove himself".

 

I'm pretty close to being done with Pablo, but with Rutledge and Marrero as our only options until Devers comes up, I'm not cutting Pablo loose right now.

[Nick]

My choice is drafting college pitchers.

 

With pending arrival of 'cliff', we need starting pitchers that can be ready in couple of years.

 

Five solid starting pitchers are a must. Devers at 3B, Travis at 1B, we just need a veteran outfield depth which can be picked up on the cheap.

 

Please do not draft a player that you already know is hurt, Keston Hiura, diminutive hitter that does not have a true position that may require elbow surgery.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Nick

[moonslav59]

My choice is drafting college pitchers.

 

With pending arrival of 'cliff', we need starting pitchers that can be ready in couple of years.

 

Five solid starting pitchers are a must. Devers at 3B, Travis at 1B, we just need a veteran outfield depth which can be picked up on the cheap.

 

Please do not draft a player that you already know is hurt, Keston Hiura, diminutive hitter that does not have a true position that may require elbow surgery.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

At #24, it's pretty much a crap shoot.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox Scouting Mike Minor

By Charlie Wilmoth | June 11, 2017 at 1:25pm CDT

 

The Red Sox are one of several teams scouting Royals lefty Mike Minor, Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets. The 27-34 Royals could move Minor at the trade deadline.

 

The longtime Braves starter has reemerged in 2017 after missing all of the last two big-league seasons to arm trouble, posting a 2.25 ERA, 9.3 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 over 32 relief innings with Kansas City. Minor seems to have gotten even a bit more than the typical velocity bump associated with converting from starting to relief, averaging 94.0 MPH on his fastball after throwing 90.5 MPH in 2014. He’s also been terrific against lefties this season, holding them to a .380 OPS thus far this year.

 

Minor is in the second season of a two-year deal with the Royals he signed while injured. In addition to the remainder of his $4MM salary for this season, his contract also contains a $10MM mutual option or a $1.25MM buyout for 2018.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR...

 

The Red Sox’ signing of first baseman Mitch Moreland rather than Edwin Encarnacion looks like a good one, Jen McCaffrey of MassLive.com writes. Moreland’s offense so far this season has been the best of his career — he’s currently batting .281/.382/.492 with 26 extra-base hits. Encarnacion, meanwhile, has hit .245/.351/.446 with Cleveland, although he’s hit well recently. Interestingly, FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi tweeted today that Moreland turned down more money from the Guardians to play for the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

Chavis hit a 3-run HR tonight. He now has 16 HRs in just a short time.

 

Maybe the Sox do have some power in their prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cashman was smart signing lights out Relievers, knowing the return these guys bring, especially at the July 31 Deadline. He'll probably do it again with Chapman, not this year, but his value will be high again next 2 years.

 

Cash signed one in Miller then offloaded him for a haul of prospects. He dealt for Chap by selling high on two prospects and then re-signed him sans penalty. We develop Betances. We developed Warren, dealt him for Castro, then got him back for Chapman. Holder looks the real deal. Green was dealt for as a prospect and has turned into something really good. The next wave are all guys who throw hard as well

[OH FOY]

Its hard to play Defense behind these Sox Pitchers. The amount of time between pitches, non-consistent in the strike zone. Million Pitches are thrown before the 5th inning, by all the Starters. I can see why this Defense makes some mistakes. Its tough to stay on the field and keep your mind in the game.

Yesterdays game we lost 8-3 took 4hrs 06 minutes.

Yesterday Royals beat the Padres 8-3 took 2Hrs and 27 minutes.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Red Sox look like a wild card team this year. Maybe they can overtake the Yankees, but the Red Sox don't match up particularly well against them (the Red Sox's left handed starters versus the Yankees right handed power bats). But the Red Sox are all in and a pitcher like Chris Sale can be the difference in a playoff series. I don't think this is the time to hoard prospects. The Red Sox have a three year window and they might as well go full charge. They can always rebuild and develop within after this three year window is up. Moustakas is the appropriate fit--a power left handed bat and a clean up hitter, two things the Red Sox need--and so it is incumbent on Dombrowski to acquire him.

 

I like the idea of signing Moustakas and keeping him beyond this season. Devers can spend next season in AAA.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Cash signed one in Miller then offloaded him for a haul of prospects. He dealt for Chap by selling high on two prospects and then re-signed him sans penalty. We develop Betances. We developed Warren, dealt him for Castro, then got him back for Chapman. Holder looks the real deal. Green was dealt for as a prospect and has turned into something really good. The next wave are all guys who throw hard as well

 

Many of Cashman's recent moves have been golden. The A.Hicks trade. The S.Castro trade. The D.Gregorius trade. He acquired Chapman for nothing, stole him from the Reds, then traded him to the Cubs for a stud prospect and then resigned him in free agency. Matt Holliday has been a great fit. He rebuilt the team around three stud players: Judge, Sanchez, and Severino.

 

Compare these moves to the string of bad moves Cherington made that led to his firing and this helps explain why the Yankees are in first place.

 

The jury is still out on Dombrowski, but it is hard to be overly impressed at this juncture.

 

The one major negative concerning the Yankees: I'm not sure if they are built to win in October. I don't trust their starting pitching. Based on performance, it looks like Tanaka will need TJ surgery sooner rather than later.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox look like a wild card team this year. Maybe they can overtake the Yankees, but the Red Sox don't match up particularly well against them (the Red Sox's left handed starters versus the Yankees right handed power bats). But the Red Sox are all in and a pitcher like Chris Sale can be the difference in a playoff series. I don't think this is the time to hoard prospects. The Red Sox have a three year window and they might as well go full charge. They can always rebuild and develop within after this three year window is up. Moustakas is the appropriate fit--a power left handed bat and a clean up hitter, two things the Red Sox need--and so it is incumbent on Dombrowski to acquire him.

 

 

I like the idea of signing Moustakas and keeping him beyond this season. Devers can spend next season in AAA.

 

The Sox are currently far away from "hoarding prospects". We traded away a bunch of top prospects. You want to trade away the rest of the farm? We hear praise on what Cashman did, and now some want us to do the opposite of what he just did.

 

Here are the prospects we recently traded away in order of their top soxprospects.com ranking:

 

1 Yoan Moncada

3 Anderson Espinoza

3 Manuel Margot

3 Garin Cecchini

5 Michael Kopech

6 Javier Guerra

7 Luis Aj Basabe

9 Mauricio Dubon

11 Sean Coyle

12 Travis Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 Wendell Rijo

13 Logan Allen

13 Pat Light

17 Luis Ax Basabe

20 Carlos Asuaje

21 Victor Diaz

24 Josh Pennington

30 Aaron Wilkerson

40 Jose Almonte

43 William Cuevas

 

If this is "hoarding prospects", then I'm the King of England!

 

We have a lot of lower tier prospects that have seemingly moved up this year, but we only have 3 guys that are close to being blue chippers, and we look to have a strong need in the 3 positions they play:

 

1B: Travis

 

3B: Devers

 

SP: Groome

 

I wouldn't trade any of these three.

[mvp 78]

Oh no, Garin Cecchini!!!!!!!!!! What a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oldtimer]

No where did I ever say or imply that we should PLAN on Pablo being any significant part of next year's roster.

 

I said "assuming he shows some life" this year.

 

I am not confident he will.

 

On another thread I mentioned how I might not even give him one more month to "prove himself".

 

I'm pretty close to being done with Pablo, but with Rutledge and Marrero as our only options until Devers comes up, I'm not cutting Pablo loose right now. [/QUOT

 

My choice would be to give up on Sandoval, eat his contract noe now and go hard for Mike Moustakas. He is sitting at a 275 batting avg, 17 HR and an 868 OPS. I would stick him in the center of the lineup along with Moreland and move Hanley back. I know it is dreaming, but the team would be so much stronger with that one move. Lets hope that the pitching can be resolved from within.

[oldtimer]

Many of Cashman's recent moves have been golden. The A.Hicks trade. The S.Castro trade. The D.Gregorius trade. He acquired Chapman for nothing, stole him from the Reds, then traded him to the Cubs for a stud prospect and then resigned him in free agency. Matt Holliday has been a great fit. He rebuilt the team around three stud players: Judge, Sanchez, and Severino.

 

Compare these moves to the string of bad moves Cherington made that led to his firing and this helps explain why the Yankees are in first place.

 

The jury is still out on Dombrowski, but it is hard to be overly impressed at this juncture.

 

The one major negative concerning the Yankees: I'm not sure if they are built to win in October. I don't trust their starting pitching. Based on performance, it looks like Tanaka will need TJ surgery sooner rather than later.

 

I agree that the yankee moves have been smart. Our smart moves recently have been Kimbrel, Sale and Moreland.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are currently far away from "hoarding prospects". We traded away a bunch of top prospects. You want to trade away the rest of the farm? We hear praise on what Cashman did, and now some want us to do the opposite of what he just did.

 

Here are the prospects we recently traded away in order of their top soxprospects.com ranking:

 

1 Yoan Moncada

3 Anderson Espinoza

3 Manuel Margot

3 Garin Cecchini

5 Michael Kopech

6 Javier Guerra

7 Luis Aj Basabe

9 Mauricio Dubon

11 Sean Coyle

12 Travis Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 Wendell Rijo

13 Logan Allen

13 Pat Light

17 Luis Ax Basabe

20 Carlos Asuaje

21 Victor Diaz

24 Josh Pennington

30 Aaron Wilkerson

40 Jose Almonte

43 William Cuevas

 

If this is "hoarding prospects", then I'm the King of England!

 

We have a lot of lower tier prospects that have seemingly moved up this year, but we only have 3 guys that are close to being blue chippers, and we look to have a strong need in the 3 positions they play:

 

1B: Travis

 

3B: Devers

 

SP: Groome

 

I wouldn't trade any of these three.

 

Agreed. Maybe throwing in a prospect with Marrero, one of our 3 potential catchers and perhaps Abad would be the only losses we could accept if we were to get a solid 3rd baseman like Moustakas.

[Nick]

I agree that the yankee moves have been smart. Our smart moves recently have been Kimbrel, Sale and Moreland.

 

I agree.

 

Pablo signing is one of the worst EVER by Ben that continues to haunt us.

[Kimmi]

MLBTR...

 

The Red Sox’ signing of first baseman Mitch Moreland rather than Edwin Encarnacion looks like a good one, Jen McCaffrey of MassLive.com writes. Moreland’s offense so far this season has been the best of his career — he’s currently batting .281/.382/.492 with 26 extra-base hits. Encarnacion, meanwhile, has hit .245/.351/.446 with Cleveland, although he’s hit well recently. Interestingly, FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi tweeted today that Moreland turned down more money from the Guardians to play for the Red Sox.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Dombrowski deserves high kudos for the Moreland signing.

[Kimmi]

The Red Sox look like a wild card team this year. Maybe they can overtake the Yankees, but the Red Sox don't match up particularly well against them (the Red Sox's left handed starters versus the Yankees right handed power bats). But the Red Sox are all in and a pitcher like Chris Sale can be the difference in a playoff series. I don't think this is the time to hoard prospects. The Red Sox have a three year window and they might as well go full charge. They can always rebuild and develop within after this three year window is up. Moustakas is the appropriate fit--a power left handed bat and a clean up hitter, two things the Red Sox need--and so it is incumbent on Dombrowski to acquire him.

 

I like the idea of signing Moustakas and keeping him beyond this season. Devers can spend next season in AAA.

 

I hate the idea of depleting our farm any more, but you kind of have a point. The Sox are all in. They made that clear in the offseason. It would seem kind of counterproductive to now say that they won't pay the price for that one piece or two that could take us all the way.

 

Especially with the cliff looming...

[Kimmi]

I agree that the yankee moves have been smart. Our smart moves recently have been Kimbrel, Sale and Moreland.

 

Cashman took a page out of the Theo Epstein handbook.

[Kimmi]

I agree.

 

Pablo signing is one of the worst EVER by Larry that continues to haunt us.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

And I know I'm alone on this ship, but Pablo needs a longer look.

[Kimmi]

There has been speculation that Hanley's shoulders are bothering him more than he is letting on, and that he is against any type of DL stint because he needs the PAs to have his $22 mil option kick in.

 

As I said, it's only speculation.

[Kimmi]

More thoughts on Hanley: I posted before that I thought Hanley was trying to do too much, thinking that he had to be THE MAN since Ortiz is not longer in the line up. He looks to be swinging for the fences in every at bat. He has also become pull happy, which supports the idea that he's trying to do too much.

[moonslav59]

Agreed. Maybe throwing in a prospect with Marrero, one of our 3 potential catchers and perhaps Abad would be the only losses we could accept if we were to get a solid 3rd baseman like Moustakas.

 

Rebuilding team aren't looking for Abad and probably not Marrero either.

 

Maybe some mix of Ockimey, Chatham, Longhi, Chavis, Larkin or Beeks might be enough.

[Thunder]

Fixed that for you.

 

And I know I'm alone on this ship, but Pablo needs a longer look.

 

You're not alone. It seems like the team just gave up on him this year once he started making a couple errors. I mean the guy is clearly trying, based on how hard he worked this winter. There's such a short leash on him. Granted, Rutledge has filled in beautifully. but he definitely shouldn't just be an afterthought.

[Dojji]

Fixed that for you.

 

And I know I'm alone on this ship, but Pablo needs a longer look.

 

2 1/2 years is a pretty long look. This guy has pissed away chance after chance after chance. At some point anyone with a brain just recognizes the pattern and moves on.

[a700hitter]

Cashman took a page out of the Theo Epstein handbook.

Cashman has 2 more World Championships than Theo.

[moonslav59]

Rutledge and Marrero are not the answer. Even a healthy Holt of Hernandez were not great options for a long term 3Bman.

 

As bad as Pablo has looked, the fact that he is in better shape than maybe even when with SF, I still think he represents our best hope for having a decent FT 3Bman. It's a sad reality, but until Devers is given a shot, I'm not for DFA'ing Pablo right now (as a Globe writer called for today).

 

Rutledge has looked good recently, but he's at best a good back-up.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Cashman took a page out of the Theo Epstein handbook.

 

With all due respect....

 

When has Theo ever dealt away several stars for prospects?

 

What handbook are you talking about?