Trade confirmed: Shaw, Dubon, Pennington, to Brewers for RHRP Tyler Thornburg

[Kimmi]

It just seems incredible that we made two separate trades for guys whose arms were not sound enough to throw a pitch for us.

 

Oddly enough, these two trades are two Dombrowski trades that I was okay with.

[Jasonbay44]

DomBrowski has traded for three guys who were damaged, that's been concerning. On paper I was fine with Carson Smith trade, but Pomeranz one was bad, and this one isn't looking good.

[a700hitter]

DomBrowski has traded for three guys who were damaged, that's been concerning. On paper I was fine with Carson Smith trade, but Pomeranz one was bad, and this one isn't looking good.

Does our crack medical staff bear any responsibility?

[Jasonbay44]

Does our crack medical staff bear any responsibility?

 

They do for sure, but even when Pomeranz's injury issues were made public, Dombrowski still decided to take him.

[Northern Star]

I saw that. I'm glad we got 3 years of Thornburg at less cost.

 

2 years. Definitely 2. Well, maybe 1. At least 1, I'm fairly certain.

[moonslav59]

2 years. Definitely 2. Well, maybe 1. At least 1, I'm fairly certain.

 

Looks like 1 year of Davis could end up much better.

[Bellhorn04]

Does our crack medical staff bear any responsibility?

 

I can't help picturing our exams being done by a guy with a stethoscope, a tongue depressor and one of those little hammers they test your reflexes with.

[a700hitter]

I can't help picturing our exams being done by a guy with a stethoscope, a tongue depressor and one of those little hammers they test your reflexes with.

LOL!! High tech. The FO will pour over his stats, but give him a half assed medical exam. Just a bit stupid. It would be like all the engineers inspecting a plane and clearing it for proper maintenance, but forgetting to gas it up.

[mvp 78]

LOL!! High tech. The FO will pour over his stats, but give him a half assed medical exam. Just a bit stupid. It would be like all the engineers inspecting a plane and clearing it for proper maintenance, but forgetting to gas it up.

 

They also found a real truly amazing, bigly amazing and I mean bigly amazing PI to follow Crawford around for a few weeks!

[a700hitter]

They also found a real truly amazing, bigly amazing and I mean bigly amazing PI to follow Crawford around for a few weeks!

And the whole while Crawford had a damaged wrist and elbow, but we confirmed that he did not go clubbing.

[notin]

I can't help picturing our exams being done by a guy with a stethoscope, a tongue depressor and one of those little hammers they test your reflexes with.

 

I'm picturing them being done by a guy with a box of leeches and a chisel he uses on skulls to let the evil spirits out...

[Jack Flap]

To borrow a phrase from the Sale trade thread, "in a vacuum" I still think this has a chance to be a solid trade...the real problem with it was depleting our 3B depth and putting all the pressure on Sandoval to perform. Whether the injury to Thornburg is something that should have been anticipated beforehand is an open question, I think, but if he can come back healthy and pitch like he did last year, it should quiet a lot of the complaints.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jack, even if he comes back and dominates, it's hard to fathom trading a middle of the order 3b for a setup man. Shaw has been solid this year, with power that the sox sorely need at a position that they have no production from at all. If Thornburg has rotator cuff surgery and never comes back to normal, then this trade is a colossal bust

[moonslav59]

Jack, even if he comes back and dominates, it's hard to fathom trading a middle of the order 3b for a setup man. Shaw has been solid this year, with power that the sox sorely need at a position that they have no production from at all. If Thornburg has rotator cuff surgery and never comes back to normal, then this trade is a colossal bust

 

Shaw looked good for us this time last year, too.

 

Let's wait and see if he can do it for a prolonged time, before we pass judgment.

[Kimmi]

Shaw looked good for us this time last year, too.

 

Let's wait and see if he can do it for a prolonged time, before we pass judgment.

 

As I've said before, I think people forget just how bad Shaw was after May of last year. The way he was playing, he was not going to be our answer at 3B.

 

That said, I still think one of Dombrowski's big errors in terms of this year was not having a viable back up plan for 3B.

[vjcsmoke]

As I've said before, I think people forget just how bad Shaw was after May of last year. The way he was playing, he was not going to be our answer at 3B.

 

That said, I still think one of Dombrowski's big errors in terms of this year was not having a viable back up plan for 3B.

 

Trading away Shaw was one of the biggest MISTAKES of the offseason. We have a gaping hole at 3rd base. And how the hell were you counting on Fatso Sandoval to fill that hole? Even if he comes back healthy, he's a mediocre player.

 

Look at what Shaw has done this season:

.281 BA 9HRs 34 RBIs .540 SLG

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/32890/travis-shaw

 

.318 OBP doesn't show much discipline but when overall you are getting an .858 OPS player, well it was one of the worsts moves of the offseason.

 

-Almost- as bad as trading for Drew "damaged goods" Pomeranz last year.

 

Sandoval's terrible contract continues to haunt us.

 

And David Price has yet to pitch this season despite his mega-contract signing.

 

Red Sox continue to waste money and talent. Is it that surprising that we are mediocre?

 

We made the mistake of not replacing Big Papi. Could have easily signed a premier power bat for this season to shore up the lineup. Instead we have to watch Jackie Bradley Jr. whiff over and over again.

 

How do so many "smart" people continue to make so many huge mistakes?

 

It's a long season. But this has just been really frustrating to watch.

[oldtimer]

Trading away Shaw was one of the biggest MISTAKES of the offseason. We have a gaping hole at 3rd base. And how the hell were you counting on Fatso Sandoval to fill that hole? Even if he comes back healthy, he's a mediocre player.

 

Look at what Shaw has done this season:

.281 BA 9HRs 34 RBIs .540 SLG

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/32890/travis-shaw

 

.318 OBP doesn't show much discipline but when overall you are getting an .858 OPS player, well it was one of the worsts moves of the offseason.

 

-Almost- as bad as trading for Drew "damaged goods" Pomeranz last year.

 

Sandoval's terrible contract continues to haunt us.

 

And David Price has yet to pitch this season despite his mega-contract signing.

 

Red Sox continue to waste money and talent. Is it that surprising that we are mediocre?

 

We made the mistake of not replacing Big Papi. Could have easily signed a premier power bat for this season to shore up the lineup. Instead we have to watch Jackie Bradley Jr. whiff over and over again.

 

How do so many "smart" people continue to make so many huge mistakes?

 

It's a long season. But this has just been really frustrating to watch.

 

One answer is that so many people are not smart.

[cp176]

Another way to put it is - We can sometimes be blinded but what might appear to be brilliance or baffled by ********. The game of baseball will never be as complicated as some would like to make it out to be. The best managers and players understand this and they still keep it very simple. It is once again why the attitude that Chris Sale has works for me. keep it simple. i think he did a great job last night keeping his composure when he got squeezed on that pitch to Napoli too.

[sk7326]

Trading away Shaw was one of the biggest MISTAKES of the offseason. We have a gaping hole at 3rd base. And how the hell were you counting on Fatso Sandoval to fill that hole? Even if he comes back healthy, he's a mediocre player.

 

Look at what Shaw has done this season:

.281 BA 9HRs 34 RBIs .540 SLG

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/32890/travis-shaw

 

.318 OBP doesn't show much discipline but when overall you are getting an .858 OPS player, well it was one of the worsts moves of the offseason.

 

-Almost- as bad as trading for Drew "damaged goods" Pomeranz last year.

 

Sandoval's terrible contract continues to haunt us.

 

And David Price has yet to pitch this season despite his mega-contract signing.

 

Red Sox continue to waste money and talent. Is it that surprising that we are mediocre?

 

We made the mistake of not replacing Big Papi. Could have easily signed a premier power bat for this season to shore up the lineup. Instead we have to watch Jackie Bradley Jr. whiff over and over again.

 

How do so many "smart" people continue to make so many huge mistakes?

 

It's a long season. But this has just been really frustrating to watch.

 

Shaw got off to a nice start last year too - he is still more likely to turn into a pumpkin than continue this. The Sox got nothing out of 3B last season, and that has persisted this season. Fourtunately, they won 95 last year with zippo from that position.

[Bellhorn04]

One answer is that so many people are not smart.

 

Another is that many, many MLB players' performance can be really hard to predict with any accuracy.

[S5Dewey]

Another way to put it is - We can sometimes be blinded but what might appear to be brilliance or baffled by ********. The game of baseball will never be as complicated as some would like to make it out to be. The best managers and players understand this and they still keep it very simple. It is once again why the attitude that Chris Sale has works for me. keep it simple. i think he did a great job last night keeping his composure when he got squeezed on that pitch to Napoli too.

 

I agree. Although he did give up the hit to Napoli on the next pitch. I saw that as a momentary thing which he recovered from immediately.

 

And in a related issue, Everyone - including Sale - knew that Sale had the potential to break a ML record. it's hard to complain about the umpiring when your team wins but I will anyway. IMO Sale also showed a lot of composure when he was clearly robbed of two K's when the umpire failed to call what was obviously a 3rd strike. The first missed call resulted in a fly ball to RF and the second was Napoli's hit. I had to wonder in the 7th if Sale would have been trying harder for K's had he been two K's closer to the record.

[mvp 78]

The umpire sucked for both teams last night. That k zone was embarrassing.

[Fisk]

I almost give up on what players do year to year it's so unpredictable. I do not blame the sox for trading Travis Shaw he was terrible from June on last year, and do not expect him to keep this up.

[OH FOY]

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/milwaukee-brewers-mauricio-dubon-fitting-in-quickly/c-233543252/t-185364810

[Spudboy]

As if this trade was not already a resounding dud.

[Dojji]

Shaw got off to a nice start last year too - he is still more likely to turn into a pumpkin than continue this. The Sox got nothing out of 3B last season, and that has persisted this season. Fourtunately, they won 95 last year with zippo from that position.

 

Sorry, I just disagree. At no point last year was Shaw worse than Sandoval. Shaw was at least 1 win above replacement no matter how you massage the metrics. Sandoval hasn't provided above replacement level production at all for the last 2+ years.

 

It *was* predictable that Shaw would outperform Sandoval, even if Shaw himself did not play at an ideal level. Therefore trading Shaw with a very uncertain replacement was not a safe move, and was not a good move, even if the guy we got in return had actually pitched for us. Never fill one hole by creating another.

 

And yes, Sandoval notwithstanding, trading Shaw created a hole. Sandoval should have been counted on to repeat his performance from the prior 2 years. In other words he should be counted on for nothing and not even factored into offseason planning, much less as the titular starting 3B.

 

Pablo's potential emergence should have been set up for a potential pleasant surprise, not a centerpiece of the team's strategy at a key offensive position. The way to bring back a player like this for maximum results is to have a guy behind him who can start at an adequate level and cover for Pablo if he needs more time to get up to speed. That was Shaw, who has proven he knows how to start hot and could have protected Panda from getting overexposed in April and May while he brought himsekf back on form.

 

Who knows, with less pressure on Pablo to immediately produce it might even have happened. With Shaw as a placeholder they could have eased Panda back in instead of throwing him directly into the fire just exactly as if he hadn't been injured and nonexistent for the last 2 years. That way just as Shaw is wearing out and beginning his second half collapse they'd have had a player they were bringing along back to take over the reins, and it would have been good.

 

The point here is that Shaw was not expendable, and DD didn't seem to realize that. Very disappointing decision making for such a veteran GM.

 

Nevermind that this was done in the wake of trading another 3B prospect, Yoan Moncada, to compound the head-scratching nature of the move by reducing the depth at 3B from both above and below.

 

Dombrowski was basically begging to be screwed over at third base this year by going all in on such a questionable gamble as the return of the Panda. All the baseball gods had to do is make the obvious outcome happen. It was a bad move, justifiable only by putting blind faith in a player who does not deserve it.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Dojji

[Spudboy]

Counting on a full productive season by Pablow to help negate the loss of Ortiz was certainly misguided at best.

[harmony]

The Red Sox completed the Tyler Thornburg trade by sending 18-year-old infielder Yeison Coca, whom SoxProspects had ranked 37th on its prospect list:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/brewers-red-sox-complete-thornburg-shaw-trade.html

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/moreprospects.htm

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=coca--000yei&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

[a700hitter]

We didn't get ripped off badly enough? LOL@ sending the Brewers more.

[Jack Flap]