Trade confirmed: Shaw, Dubon, Pennington, to Brewers for RHRP Tyler Thornburg

[a700hitter]

Lol!

[Spudboy]

Lol

[Jack Flap]

Thornburg will undergo surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome, ending his season...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/tyler-thornburg-to-undergo-surgery-for-thoracic-outlet-syndrome.html

[Spudboy]

This trade just keeps getting better.

 

How did this all happen?

[Bellhorn04]

Thornburg will undergo surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome, ending his season...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/tyler-thornburg-to-undergo-surgery-for-thoracic-outlet-syndrome.html

 

Well, I guess it's good they finally diagnosed the issue...I guess...

 

I hope our crack medical staff didn't miss something earlier...

[NativeBostonian]

Well, I guess it's good they finally diagnosed the issue...I guess...

 

I hope our crack medical staff didn't miss something earlier...

 

This is the second year that the Red Sox traded for a relief pitcher that needed season ending surgery before the season even began.

[mvp 78]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2017/06/13/travis-shaw-returns-brewers-after-daughters-open-heart-surgery/391441001/

 

It's still pathetic that Shaw is spending time with his newborn. He needs to hit those dingers! That's his only job.

[mvp 78]

Thornburg will undergo surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome, ending his season...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/tyler-thornburg-to-undergo-surgery-for-thoracic-outlet-syndrome.html

 

His career is ovah.

[royf19]

I hated this trade from the start, specifically because I didn't want to give up Shaw. Not that I expected Shaw to do as well as he's doing. I didn't trust Sandoval at third, so I would have been satisfied with what Shaw did last year, .242 16 HR 72 RBI, along with the versatility of him being able to play 1B and 3B.

[Kimmi]

I actually liked this trade. I had no problem with trading Shaw. That said, there was failure in having a viable Plan B in the event that Pablo could not cut it.

[NativeBostonian]

I actually liked this trade. I had no problem with trading Shaw. That said, there was failure in having a viable Plan B in the event that Pablo could not cut it.

 

I agree, this trade was a good one. But, again, just ran into some awful luck.

[moonslav59]

I liked the trade at the time, so it's hard for me to criticize it in hindsight.

 

I do expect Travis Shaw to slump again as the season wears on, but we sure could have used his bat this year at 3B.

[Jack Flap]

Assuming there was a plan for third base other than betting the house on a Panda revival, Shaw-for-Thornburg would have been a sensible one-for-one deal given their respective roles and histories. Why it was necessary to throw in three other prospects is a little beyond me, even if I don't expect any of them to come back to haunt us too badly.

[Jack Flap]

This is the second year that the Red Sox traded for a relief pitcher that needed season ending surgery before the season even began.

 

Then there's Pomeranz who, while he hasn't needed surgery, did have underlying medical issues that became almost immediately apparent after the trade. (Yes, in this case it was concealed from us by the Padres, but the Red Sox also missed it...)

Edited June 16, 2017 by Jack Flap

[OH FOY]

Losing Dubon and Logan Allen are killers to an organization for depth. The throw in to Trades are hurting us.

[mvp 78]

Losing Dubon and Logan Allen are killers to an organization for depth. The throw in to Trades are hurting us.

 

Dubon, sure. Logan Allen, nope.

[moonslav59]

2017 Numbers:

 

Moncada (AAA): .271 7 19 .796 in 247 PAs

 

Margot (MLB): .259 4 13 .694 in 200 PAs

 

A Espinoza: Injured

 

Kopech (AA): 4-3 2.90 12.0 K/9 & 5.8 BB/9

 

T Shaw (MLB): .302 11 46 .888 in 245 PAs

 

M Dubon (AA): .289 2 23 .717 in 276 PAs

 

L Ax. Basabe (A+): .221 3 15 .641 in 251 PAs

 

L Aj. Basabe (A): .224 2 7 .642 in 200 PAs

 

L Allen (A): 4-3 1.88 11.0 K/9 & 3.6 BB/9 in 57 IP

 

J Guerra (A+) .241 3 25 .586 in 240 PAs

 

C Asuaje (AAA) .238 2 32 .703 in 210 PAs (2 PAs in MLB)

 

V Diaz (A): 0-1 7.71 in 4.2 IP (Injured)

 

P Light (AAA): 3-0 3.76 6.8 K/9 & 5.1 BB/9 in 26.1 IP

 

W Rijo (A+ and AA): .196 0 4 .619 in 56 PAs

 

A Wilkerson (AA): 5-2 3.36 in 64.1 IP

 

J Alomote (A+): 4-5 3.90 in 67 IP (86K/37BB)

[OH FOY]

I see Moncada been struggling. Last 30 days hitting .155 Edited June 16, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Jack Flap]

Dubon, sure. Logan Allen, nope.

 

Why not? He's posting strong numbers in High-A at age 20...he's no Espinoza or Kopech in terms of ceiling, but I'd call him a not insignificant loss for a system very thin on potential starting pitchers.

[notin]

Then there's Pomeranz who, while he hasn't needed surgery, did have underlying medical issues that became almost immediately apparent after the trade. (Yes, in this case it was concealed from us by the Padres, but the Red Sox also missed it...)

 

 

Not only missed ot, but apparently accepted it even after it was revealed. ...

[notin]

Why not? He's posting strong numbers in High-A at age 20...he's no Espinoza or Kopech in terms of ceiling, but I'd call him a not insignificant loss for a system very thin on potential starting pitchers.

 

At this point, any player dealt shouldn't be written off. It's not about their future in MLB so much as it is about their value as a trade chip.

 

I guess the counterargument is that we don't need to make any deals for pitching since any arm Dombrowski acquires is probably going to get injured almost immediately anyway....

[mvp 78]

Why not? He's posting strong numbers in High-A at age 20...he's no Espinoza or Kopech in terms of ceiling, but I'd call him a not insignificant loss for a system very thin on potential starting pitchers.

 

He wouldn't be a potential MLB pitcher for another 4 years. I can't count that as starting depth. Dubon could be on the MLB roster today.

[Jack Flap]

Okay, I see what your point was now. Nvm.

[mvp 78]

Okay, I see what your point was now. Nvm.

 

Allen is pitching great this year. He's just too far away for me to get excited over.

 

I think a trade of Shaw and Allen for Thornburg should have been enough. I can't believe that Dubon was required especially since Dubon was being groomed as a super utility guy and was getting a lot of OF practice. I'd rather Dubon than Rutledge.

[Emp9]

My big concern, as I suspect for many here, is if our starters can eat more innings as to not wear out our pretty decent BP over the 2nd half. Going forward towards the trade deadline, I am curious to see what the Sox spend their last dime on... An upgrade at 3B defensively & offensively, or another BP piece?... or maybe even starter depth?

 

What does everyone here think they'll wind-up trying to upgrade?

[moonslav59]

My big concern, as I suspect for many here, is if our starters can eat more innings as to not wear out our pretty decent BP over the 2nd half. Going forward towards the trade deadline, I am curious to see what the Sox spend their last dime on... An upgrade at 3B defensively & offensively, or another BP piece?... or maybe even starter depth?

 

What does everyone here think they'll wind-up trying to upgrade?

 

We have enough cap space to trade for a rather costly 3Bman and a starter, since we will only be on the hook for about 1/3 of their salaries.

 

My question is more about how much are we willing to give up for higher quality players.

[Emp9]

We have enough cap space to trade for a rather costly 3Bman and a starter, since we will only be on the hook for about 1/3 of their salaries.

 

My question is more about how much are we willing to give up for higher quality players.

 

That too. I guess I'd include prospects under Last dime, since that's about where we are on that front as well.

 

For a team trying to drop salary, I'm trying to figure out how significant 1/3 is for them, and how many 1/3rds are they dropping... across players? Being there are a lot of close races this year again, I don't think we'll find out who'll be sellers until the last minute.

 

I guess my main question is what's our biggest need? Or do we even know yet? If ERod comes back like he hasn't missed a beat, then we may not need an additional SP. If Smith comes back and doesn't miss a beat, we may not need to go after a BP upgrade. If we bring up Devers and he looks promising/adequate we may not need a 3B. A big bat in the order would be nice, and if that big bat can play 3B (average defense) that would be ideal. That would plug 2 holes at the same time.

[moonslav59]

That too. I guess I'd include prospects under Last dime, since that's about where we are on that front as well.

 

For a team trying to drop salary, I'm trying to figure out how significant 1/3 is for them, and how many 1/3rds are they dropping... across players? Being there are a lot of close races this year again, I don't think we'll find out who'll be sellers until the last minute.

 

I guess my main question is what's our biggest need? Or do we even know yet? If ERod comes back like he hasn't missed a beat, then we may not need an additional SP. If Smith comes back and doesn't miss a beat, we may not need to go after a BP upgrade. If we bring up Devers and he looks promising/adequate we may not need a 3B. A big bat in the order would be nice, and if that big bat can play 3B (average defense) that would be ideal. That would plug 2 holes at the same time.

 

I think we have about $8-9M to "play with", so that's about $24-27M of yearly contracts we can take on (.33 x $27M=$9M). That's two players making about $13M each or 3 players making $9M each.

 

I think the main issue is not going to be how big is the salary (dump) we get from someone. It's going to be about how good of prospects we'll be willing to give up and how good the players we seek will be.

 

I'm fine with trades like the Ziegler one last year, but normally, I'm against trades for top end rentals.

[Kimmi]

At this point, any player dealt shouldn't be written off. It's not about their future in MLB so much as it is about their value as a trade chip.

 

This is a good point.

[moonslav59]

This is a good point.

 

Take Javier Guerra. His stock has fallen off a cliff since the trade, but my position was never about Kimbrel vs Guerra (and others), it was about what else we could have traded Guerra (and others) for instead of Kimbrel.

 

Same goes with Espinoza, although I really wanted us to hold onto him.