Big Papi, Teddy or Foxx---your choice

[bosoxmal]

Sox Greatest Hitter of All Time

 

 

We Sox fans will miss David Ortiz. Probably as much as we missed Ted Williams and, before him, Jimmie Foxx. So, who was the greatest hitter of the three? Ted? Or, just maybe, Foxx. Here are some very typical Foxx numbers for 1929 and, ten years later, 1939:

 

 

Games BA HR SLG OPS BB K

 

 

1929 .354 33 .635 .463 103 70

 

1939 .360 35 .694 .464 89 72

 

 

From one decade to another! Some day I'll do a similar look at Ted's. I have never paid much attention to WAR (too complicated), but if one subtracted the difference between BB and K's, then multiplied that with SLG, wouldn't that tell it all? What really startled me was the numbers ten years apart!

[a700hitter]

Sox Greatest Hitter of All Time

 

 

We Sox fans will miss David Ortiz. Probably as much as we missed Ted Williams and, before him, Jimmie Foxx. So, who was the greatest hitter of the three? Ted? Or, just maybe, Foxx. Here are some very typical Foxx numbers for 1929 and, ten years later, 1939:

 

 

Games BA HR SLG OPS BB K

 

 

1929 .354 33 .635 .463 103 70

 

1939 .360 35 .694 .464 89 72

 

 

From one decade to another! Some day I'll do a similar look at Ted's. I have never paid much attention to WAR (too complicated), but if one subtracted the difference between BB and K's, then multiplied that with SLG, wouldn't that tell it all? What really startled me was the numbers ten years apart!

Did you see Foxx play. I assume that you did, because you saw Lefty Grove. What is your opinion of him iin comparison to the greats of his day and afterward. Based on what I have read about him and his stats, it seems that he was on another level from most but a few very elite hitters.

[bosoxmal]

Did you see Foxx play. I assume that you did, because you saw Lefty Grove. What is your opinion of him iin comparison to the greats of his day and afterward. Based on what I have read about him and his stats, it seems that he was on another level from most but a few very elite hitters.

 

Yes, my first game was in 1932. At Braves Field. I remember the year, and that it was mid summer. We were moving from Keene, NH., where I was born, to Somerville where I grew up. My father worked on the railroad and he took me down to Boston before we moved. The idea being to keep me from being traumatized, I guess. He took me a game because I spent every decent day playing somewhere. My first hero was Wally Berger.

 

 

Fox was the best RH hitter who ever played the game. His longevity was something else. It would be difficult to chose between Foxx and Gehrig. I think lefties always have had a little advantage. There are a helluva lot more RH pitchers than there are LH pitchers. It's been a long, long time, and I know sometimes memory banks play tricks sometimes. You remember what you want to remember, I guess. My father took me to at least 6 to 8 games a year. Almost always on a Sunday. At that time he had a steady run, and Sundays was his day off. When Cleveland came to town, it seemed that it was a tradition that Grove would pitch, and Cleveland sometimes arranged their staff so he would face Feller. Reason? The Gate! Ticket prices peaked at about $.55 for the grandstand, and when you were making $75 every two weeks, that was a lot of money. I hope some others here who were born in the earl twenties could add to this. Thanks for asking.

Edited October 19, 2016 by bosoxmal

[moonslav59]

Just looking at the numbers, it's got to be Teddy.

 

Papi was the man come playoff time.

 

Foxx was amazing in his own right.

[moonslav59]

How about these two back-to-back seasons by a Red Sox shortstop?

 

.290 39 159 (led AL) .930 OPS

.295 30 144 (led AL) .872 OPS

 

I know bosoxmal knows who I'm talking about, but does anyone else?

 

[mvp 78]

How about these two back-to-back seasons by a Red Sox shortstop?

 

.290 39 159 (led AL) .930 OPS

.295 30 144 (led AL) .872 OPS

 

I know bosoxmal knows who I'm talking about, but does anyone else?

 

 

Julio Cesar Lugo

[Dojji]

Well I went through the obvious recent guys (Nomar, Valentin), not them, then I checked a couple of the more famous offensive shortstops I remembered from Sox history (Cronin, Petrocelli) and it's not them. I'm obviously forgetting someone.

[mvp 78]

Well I went through the obvious recent guys (Nomar, Valentin), not them, then I checked a couple of the more famous offensive shortstops I remembered from Sox history (Cronin, Petrocelli) and it's not them. I'm obviously forgetting someone.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stephve01.shtml

[Dojji]

Cool. I learned something today.

[a700hitter]

I am guessing Vern Stephens.

[a700hitter]

I am guessing Vern Stephens.

Edit. Got it right. I would have guessed Cronin but Doji said that it wasn't Cronin. I also read every one of Teddy Ballgames books and every other Red Sox history book when I was a kid so I learned about Doerr, Pesky, and then Stephens, Parnell, Jackie Jensen, Piersall, and Bill Goodman and on and on.

[cp176]

Yes, my first game was in 1932. At Braves Field. I remember the year, and that it was mid summer. We were moving from Keene, NH., where I was born, to Somerville where I grew up. My father worked on the railroad and he took me down to Boston before we moved. The idea being to keep me from being traumatized, I guess. He took me a game because I spent every decent day playing somewhere. My first hero was Wally Berger.

 

 

Fox was the best RH hitter who ever played the game. His longevity was something else. It would be difficult to chose between Foxx and Gehrig. I think lefties always have had a little advantage. There are a helluva lot more RH pitchers than there are LH pitchers. It's been a long, long time, and I know sometimes memory banks play tricks sometimes. You remember what you want to remember, I guess. My father took me to at least 6 to 8 games a year. Almost always on a Sunday. At that time he had a steady run, and Sundays was his day off. When Cleveland came to town, it seemed that it was a tradition that Grove would pitch, and Cleveland sometimes arranged their staff so he would face Feller. Reason? The Gate! Ticket prices peaked at about $.55 for the grandstand, and when you were making $75 every two weeks, that was a lot of money. I hope some others here who were born in the earl twenties could add to this. Thanks for asking.

 

great post thank you!!!

[Bellhorn04]

I am guessing Vern Stephens.

 

Well done.

[sk7326]

The Red Sox Top 20 in wRC+ (1918 to 1946, 3500 PA minimum, approximately 5 seasons of PAs ... remembering 100 is league average)

 

1. Ted Williams 188

2. Manny Ramirez 154

3. Jimmie Foxx 151

4. David Ortiz 146

5. Fred Lynn 142

6. Wade Boggs 142

7. Mo Vaughn 136

8. Nomar Garciaparra 134

9. Carl Yastrzemski 130

10. Kevin Youkilis 130

11. Dwight Evans 129

12. Reggie Smith 129

13. Carlton Fisk 129

14. Jim Rice 128

15. Jackie Jensen 123

16. Joe Cronin 122

17. Mike Greenwell 120

18. Trot Nixon 118

19. Dustin Pedroia 117

20. Bobby Doerr 115

[mvp 78]

Seeing Mo Vaughn's name ahead of Nomar's makes my heart feel very warm.

[moonslav59]

Seeing Mo Vaughn's name ahead of Nomar's makes my heart feel very warm.

 

...but, seeing his name ahead of Yaz gives me the taste of vomit in my mouth.

 

Wow on the Trotskyite.

[mvp 78]

...but, seeing his name ahead of Yaz gives me the taste of vomit in my mouth.

 

Wow on the Trotskyite.

 

Well, you used career WRC+ and Carl had a lot of down years towards the end of his career.

 

Maybe you should have done the 5 best seasons for each?

 

Mo's WRC+ doesn't include his downward spiral with the Angels and Mets. His career WRC+ is 129 (same as Lynn's career total).

[sk7326]

Since the talk was greatest Sox hitter, was fair to stick with Red Sox careers - so Yaz' career suffers due to it just being so darn long. I used 3500 PAs so we could get a sample of 5ish seasons in a Sox uniform. But to examine peak, the 25 best Red Sox SEASONS by wRC+

 

1. Ted Williams 1957 - 223

2. Ted Williams 1941 - 221

3. Ted Williams 1946 - 215

4. Ted Williams 1942 - 209

5. Ted Williams 1954 - 207

6. Ted Williams 1947 - 207

7. Babe Ruth 1919 - 203

8. Yaz 1967 - 194

9. Ted Williams 1949 - 189

10. Manny Ramirez 2002 - 185

11. Ted Williams 1948 - 183

12. Jimmie Foxx 1939 - 181

13. Yaz 1970 - 179

14. Ted Williams 1958 - 179

15. David Ortiz 2007 - 175

16. Fred Lynn 1979 - 174

17. Ted Williams 1956 - 174

18. Jimmie Foxx 1938 - 173

19. Wade Boggs 1987 - 171

20. Yaz 1968 - 170

21. Bob Johnson 1944 - 169

22. Dwight Evans 1981 - 168

23. Wade Boggs 1988 - 167

24. Ted Williams 1951 - 166

25. Carlton Fisk 1972 - 165

[devildavid]

Yes, my first game was in 1932. At Braves Field. I remember the year, and that it was mid summer. We were moving from Keene, NH., where I was born, to Somerville where I grew up. My father worked on the railroad and he took me down to Boston before we moved. The idea being to keep me from being traumatized, I guess. He took me a game because I spent every decent day playing somewhere. My first hero was Wally Berger.

 

 

Fox was the best RH hitter who ever played the game. His longevity was something else. It would be difficult to chose between Foxx and Gehrig. I think lefties always have had a little advantage. There are a helluva lot more RH pitchers than there are LH pitchers. It's been a long, long time, and I know sometimes memory banks play tricks sometimes. You remember what you want to remember, I guess. My father took me to at least 6 to 8 games a year. Almost always on a Sunday. At that time he had a steady run, and Sundays was his day off. When Cleveland came to town, it seemed that it was a tradition that Grove would pitch, and Cleveland sometimes arranged their staff so he would face Feller. Reason? The Gate! Ticket prices peaked at about $.55 for the grandstand, and when you were making $75 every two weeks, that was a lot of money. I hope some others here who were born in the earl twenties could add to this. Thanks for asking.

 

I thought you might like this article on Foxx. He was a great all around ballplayer.

 

http://sabr.org/research/real-jimmie-foxx

[a700hitter]

Yes, my first game was in 1932. At Braves Field. I remember the year, and that it was mid summer. We were moving from Keene, NH., where I was born, to Somerville where I grew up. My father worked on the railroad and he took me down to Boston before we moved. The idea being to keep me from being traumatized, I guess. He took me a game because I spent every decent day playing somewhere. My first hero was Wally Berger.

 

 

Fox was the best RH hitter who ever played the game. His longevity was something else. It would be difficult to chose between Foxx and Gehrig. I think lefties always have had a little advantage. There are a helluva lot more RH pitchers than there are LH pitchers. It's been a long, long time, and I know sometimes memory banks play tricks sometimes. You remember what you want to remember, I guess. My father took me to at least 6 to 8 games a year. Almost always on a Sunday. At that time he had a steady run, and Sundays was his day off. When Cleveland came to town, it seemed that it was a tradition that Grove would pitch, and Cleveland sometimes arranged their staff so he would face Feller. Reason? The Gate! Ticket prices peaked at about $.55 for the grandstand, and when you were making $75 every two weeks, that was a lot of money. I hope some others here who were born in the earl twenties could add to this. Thanks for asking.

Thanks for sharing those memories.

[jad]

How about these two back-to-back seasons by a Red Sox shortstop?

 

.290 39 159 (led AL) .930 OPS

.295 30 144 (led AL) .872 OPS

 

I know bosoxmal knows who I'm talking about, but does anyone else?

 

 

Oh my God, I thought we were about to get a Don Buddin reference, who epitomized the RS and their plight in the late 50s.

[BOSOX11]

Or Pumpsie Green.

[jacksonianmarch]

How about these two back-to-back seasons by a Red Sox shortstop?

 

.290 39 159 (led AL) .930 OPS

.295 30 144 (led AL) .872 OPS

 

I know bosoxmal knows who I'm talking about, but does anyone else?

 

 

Petrocelli or Nomar?

[Bellhorn04]

Petrocelli or Nomar?

 

700hitter got it above - Vern Stephens.

[bosoxmal]

I thought you might like this article on Foxx. He was a great all around ballplayer.

 

http://sabr.org/research/real-jimmie-foxx

Thank you! Two things sent my memory bank into full gear. I'm not checking stats because they might conflict with the memories; One was his fielding at first base. I believe his stats were greater than great, but his range was very limited. This is a little unfair because he was compared to an incredibly talented 1st baseman (Babe Dahlgren) who followed him. Everyone knew he was always playing hurt, and I doubt if many fans booed when a ball slipped past him and over the base. Another part of the story that was always of interest to me was his alcoholism. I would not be around now except that in 1960, at the age of 36, I found myself in AA. I guess it was at least 15 years after that when I heard of his poverty and alcohol problems.I went into the service in March 1943, and did not come home until September 1948. No one sought out copies of the Stars and Stripes more regularly than I did. Yes. Jimmie Foxx will always be my all time favorite. Thanks again for the article. I enjoyed reading it. Edited November 1, 2016 by bosoxmal

[harmony]

High Heat Stats ‏@HighHeatStats · 7h7 hours ago

 

Today in 1992, the Mariners signed David Arias as an amateur free agent. He was known for most of his career as David Ortiz.

 

0 replies 122 retweets 148 likes

 

[vjcsmoke]

Sox Greatest Hitter of All Time

 

 

We Sox fans will miss David Ortiz. Probably as much as we missed Ted Williams and, before him, Jimmie Foxx. So, who was the greatest hitter of the three? Ted? Or, just maybe, Foxx. Here are some very typical Foxx numbers for 1929 and, ten years later, 1939:

 

 

Games BA HR SLG OPS BB K

 

 

1929 .354 33 .635 .463 103 70

 

1939 .360 35 .694 .464 89 72

 

 

From one decade to another! Some day I'll do a similar look at Ted's. I have never paid much attention to WAR (too complicated), but if one subtracted the difference between BB and K's, then multiplied that with SLG, wouldn't that tell it all? What really startled me was the numbers ten years apart!

 

I'd go with Ted Williams, Big Papi, and Jimmie Foxx in that order.

[notin]

How about these two back-to-back seasons by a Red Sox shortstop?

 

.290 39 159 (led AL) .930 OPS

.295 30 144 (led AL) .872 OPS

 

I know bosoxmal knows who I'm talking about, but does anyone else?

 

 

Got to be Vern Stephens

[notin]

Personally I've always felt Jimmie Foxx was one of the most, if not the flat out most underrated player in MLB history.

 

This is a guy who was second in all time home runs when he retired, youngest to 500 HRs before A-Rod. And remains the only player in MLB history to hit 50 home runs on a team that didn't hit 100...

[greenwell]

What do people think about Ortiz number being retired? I for one don't understand the rush or need to make another exception to their rules. I understood Johnny Pesky considering how much time he spent with the sox. I wasn't as big a fan of retiring Pedro's number, but at least they waited until he got in the HOF. Papi qualifies in all other ways and he will get in the hall. Ted Williams waited, Carl Yastremski waited, why not wait the 5 years for Papi as well?