The Return of Pablo?

[a700hitter]

i hear you. but we have brought people in "late" that have helped us get to parades before. it's not like he's supplanting Mike Schmidt.....

The guy has not had enough competition to get ready. I would not even trust him in the field.

[Slasher9]

The guy has not had enough competition to get ready. I would not even trust him in the field.

 

good point on the defense.

[Maxbialystock]

I think all the naysayers about the postseason are right. But I still like the idea that Sandoval has made progress and could be considered (without being selected) for the postseason.

[oldtimer]

I think all the naysayers about the postseason are right. But I still like the idea that Sandoval has made progress and could be considered (without being selected) for the postseason.

 

Consideration will be for next season. Word is he has lost 30 pounds, so at least it shows he is trying to come back. He has a long way to go to convince the organization he can have a positive impact on the team, but he big salary means he will at least get a look. Meanwhile, we have problems with all our 3rd base prospects and need to decide how to handle 1st and DH as well so that gives him additional opportunity.

[moonslav59]

Some people were talking about HanRam the same way last winter.

 

I'm not writing off Pablo yet.

[a700hitter]

Some people were talking about HanRam the same way last winter.

 

I'm not writing off Pablo yet.

Hanley got moved to a position that he was incapable of playing. He needed to get back into the IF and learn a new position. Donut Boy can no longer play his position, is obese, and there is no other position for him.

[moonslav59]

Hanley got moved to a position that he was incapable of playing. He needed to get back into the IF and learn a new position. Donut Boy can no longer play his position, is obese, and there is no other position for him.

 

Not long ago Pablo was a decent fielder.

 

HanRam has never been a decent fielder.

 

Pablo may or may not be obese by the spring.

 

I'm not predicting anything positive from Pablo, but I'm not writing him off either.

[S5Dewey]

Not long ago Pablo was a decent fielder.

 

HanRam has never been a decent fielder.

 

Pablo may or may not be obese by the spring.

 

I'm not predicting anything positive from Pablo, but I'm not writing him off either.

 

You can't write him off as long as he's making that much money. The fortunate thing for him is that nobody has stepped up to take his position. Hell, who knows, it may be Sandoval's job to lose in ST.

 

It's going to be interesting to see if DD has a Plan B in place for 3B come March 1, 2017.

[Bellhorn04]

You can't write him off as long as he's making that much money. The fortunate thing for him is that nobody has stepped up to take his position. Hell, who knows, it may be Sandoval's job to lose in ST.

 

It's going to be interesting to see if DD has a Plan B in place for 3B come March 1, 2017.

 

What kind of Plan B are you thinking? We already have 3 third basemen including Moncada.

[oldtimer]

What kind of Plan B are you thinking? We already have 3 third basemen including Moncada.

 

Moncada is unlikely to be ready by April. JF will not even use him as a pinch runner now so he has no use on the playoff roster. He needs further development. Third base will be open and with Hanley some combination or 1st and DH there is room for another player. We should move at least 1 third baseman by next year. To me Hill is gone but even Shaw is iffy despite being able to contribute at either 1st or 3rd. DD won't sit on this one.

[S5Dewey]

What kind of Plan B are you thinking? We already have 3 third basemen including Moncada.

 

The fact that someone is told to play third base doesn't make them a ML third baseman. The team currently has one third baseman (who can't bend over to get to the ball) and three third baseman wannabees.

 

I've long advocated for solid up the middle, and if you have to make concessions to get power you do it at the corners. I would be perfectly comfortable with Travis Shaw at third if he had an OPS of ~.850 but that .730 doesn't get it done for me. I can see the possibility of DD acquiring - probably through trade - a third baseman with Shaw's defensive ability who can hit for power more consistently.

Then if neither Sandoval nor one of the wannabees acts like a real third baseman during ST there's a known commodity third baseman as Plan B. And if one of the three DOES show up in ST the Plan B guy either gets sent to Pawtucket (where we still don't have a third baseman, or he'd be playing in Boston now) or he gets traded.

 

It would have to be one of those low-risk/high reward guys (think: Grady Sizemore) in order to do it but it would at least give us a backup plan.

[southpaw777]

If there's an open spot for him (3B) then what's the "situation"? Besides, why would the Sox trade a guy who profiles as a generational talent if things break right? Moncada's the type of talent of talent you develop instead of trading. Looking bad during a cup of coffee at the MLB level does absolutely nothing to change that.

 

Exactly...anyone saying that Moncada has been "exposed" hasnt a clue. He is a 20-21 yo kid who was given a COC in MLB waaaaay before he was truly ready. Hes only played in 100 professional games.. He's getting a great learning experience being up here and watching the other guys take care of business... talking to Papi, Hanley, Pedey and all the vets, taking it all in. My guess is he should get time in winter ball and a full year in AAA at 3b...Unless his perfromance dictates a quicker rise to Boston. But I wouldnt count on him to start in Boston in 2017..

[Slasher9]

Hanley got moved to a position that he was incapable of playing. He needed to get back into the IF and learn a new position. Donut Boy can no longer play his position, is obese, and there is no other position for him.

 

or he's lost 30 #'s thus far and will continue to shred weight. it is possible.

[southpaw777]

The fact that someone is told to play third base doesn't make them a ML third baseman. The team currently has one third baseman (who can't bend over to get to the ball) and three third baseman wannabees.

 

I've long advocated for solid up the middle, and if you have to make concessions to get power you do it at the corners. I would be perfectly comfortable with Travis Shaw at third if he had an OPS of ~.850 but that .730 doesn't get it done for me. I can see the possibility of DD acquiring - probably through trade - a third baseman with Shaw's defensive ability who can hit for power more consistently.

Then if neither Sandoval nor one of the wannabees acts like a real third baseman during ST there's a known commodity third baseman as Plan B. And if one of the three DOES show up in ST the Plan B guy either gets sent to Pawtucket (where we still don't have a third baseman, or he'd be playing in Boston now) or he gets traded.

 

It would have to be one of those low-risk/high reward guys (think: Grady Sizemore) in order to do it but it would at least give us a backup plan.

 

Ill take 800-820 from the corners. 850 + isnt easy for most. Whats the average mlb ops for 3b this year? That would be more of a fair comparison

[S5Dewey]

Ill take 800-820 from the corners. 850 + isnt easy for most. Whats the average mlb ops for 3b this year? That would be more of a fair comparison

 

That's fair. But I'll say it again, that .730 doesn't get it done for me. If Shaw wants the position he needs to work on the offensive side of his game this winter.

[moonslav59]

You can't write him off as long as he's making that much money. The fortunate thing for him is that nobody has stepped up to take his position. Hell, who knows, it may be Sandoval's job to lose in ST.

 

It's going to be interesting to see if DD has a Plan B in place for 3B come March 1, 2017.

 

This is DD's toughest choice this winter.

 

If he acquires a solid 3Bman under team control for more than a year, he may....

1) block Moncada and maybe even Devers if signed for 2 or more years.

2) make a similar mistake as the Pablo acquisition and find another stiff.

3) squeeze a roster spot away from someone like Shaw, Pablo, Hernandez, Rutledge or even a 1Bman's job like Sam Travis who might have ended up surprising us with better play than the guy he gets.

 

I could see us trying to pry Robertson and Frazier away from the CWS. Maybe they'd take Shaw, Owens and (gulp) Swihart for 2 years of Robertson and 1 year of Toss Frazier, who I view as about the same as Shaw but with twice the HRs and 25% more RBIs.

 

 

[mvp 78]

Ill take 800-820 from the corners. 850 + isnt easy for most. Whats the average mlb ops for 3b this year? That would be more of a fair comparison

 

Of the 24 qualifiers, .966 is tops (Donaldson) and .705 is worst (Headley). Shaw sits at .732, ranked 21st.

 

The 12th ranked guy (Rendon aka middle of the pack) is .799.

 

In terms of WAR, Shaw is 15th.

[S5Dewey]

This is DD's toughest choice this winter.

 

If he acquires a solid 3Bman under team control for more than a year, he may....

1) block Moncada and maybe even Devers if signed for 2 or more years.

2) make a similar mistake as the Pablo acquisition and find another stiff.

3) squeeze a roster spot away from someone like Shaw, Pablo, Hernandez, Rutledge or even a 1Bman's job like Sam Travis who might have ended up surprising us with better play than the guy he gets.

 

I could see us trying to pry Robertson and Frazier away from the CWS. Maybe they'd take Shaw, Owens and (gulp) Swihart for 2 years of Robertson and 1 year of Toss Frazier, who I view as about the same as Shaw but with twice the HRs and 25% more RBIs.

 

 

 

All true, which is why I wouldn't acquire a solid 3Bman under team control for more than two years. This team has won the ALE without paying for a Josh Donaldson (well, actually they are paying premium $ for a 3Bman, but that's another sad story) so were I DD/JH I'd be spending the bulk of my money on improving the pen. That is... UNLESS they could unload some of those albatross contracts languishing in Pawtucket, then it's Katie, Bar The Door!

[moonslav59]

All true, which is why I wouldn't acquire a solid 3Bman under team control for more than two years. This team has won the ALE without paying for a Josh Donaldson (well, actually they are paying premium $ for a 3Bman, but that's another sad story) so were I DD/JH I'd be spending the bulk of my money on improving the pen. That is... UNLESS they could unload some of those albatross contracts languishing in Pawtucket, then it's Katie, Bar The Door!

 

I agree, but I'd rather get a 3Bman long term than a DH long term.

 

We could then try Moncada in LF (or, gulp, DH) or dare to use Moncada, Beni or Devers in a trade.

[S5Dewey]

I agree, but I'd rather get a 3Bman long term than a DH long term.

 

We could then try Moncada in LF (or, gulp, DH) or dare to use Moncada, Beni or Devers in a trade.

This brings up that 800 lb gorilla sitting on the coffee table.

 

This team has more quality young players than they have positions for, some of them are going to have to go, and the decisions to who stays and who goes are going to be difficult because they all have huge upsides. In DD we trust, I guess.

[moonslav59]

This brings up that 800 lb gorilla sitting on the coffee table.

 

This team has more quality young players than they have positions for, some of them are going to have to go, and the decisions to who stays and who goes are going to be difficult because they all have huge upsides. In DD we trust, I guess.

 

I'm not against trading top prospects, especially those that appear to be blocked. However, I did not like the idea of trading Espi for Pomeranz and 3 good prospects for a highly paid closer (Kimbrel).

 

With that, I'm not sure I trust DD on choosing who to trade for (maybe more than choosing who to trade).

[S5Dewey]

Ok, but tell me, how did you feel about the Pomeranz and Kimbrel deals? :D

[User Name]

I bet Pomeranz ends up being a better value for us than Espinoza for the Padres. In DD I trust.

[greenwell]

Of the 24 qualifiers, .966 is tops (Donaldson) and .705 is worst (Headley). Shaw sits at .732, ranked 21st.

 

The 12th ranked guy (Rendon aka middle of the pack) is .799.

 

In terms of WAR, Shaw is 15th.

 

ML avg ops at third is 0.780, the redsox are the only team below .700 (although they are at 0.699)

[Slasher9]

I bet Pomeranz ends up being a better value for us than Espinoza for the Padres. In DD I trust.

 

$5?

[Wade Boggs]

I bet Pomeranz ends up being a better value for us than Espinoza for the Padres. In DD I trust.

 

I like Pomeranz. They needed to get someone in that rotation. The up and down Erod and Buchholz at the time forced it.

 

But if your trading your number1 pitching prospect in your farm system, your going up one more level than Pomeranz.

Let's just say in the off season you could have added him in a deal for Chris Sale or somebody like that. Jmo.

But everything I'm saying is Monday morning quarterbacking. It's a tough call one way or another.

[sk7326]

I support the idea of both deals ...

 

If you are going burn three Top 100 prospects like the Sox did, you do it for young, controllable talent.

 

Now - I am not sure Pomeranz for Espinoza was a great value. At the same time, Pomeranz is young and has a much earlier ETA. Espinoza is a bit of a prodigy - but it will be at least 2-3 years before you are getting 150 big league innings out of him. Now I hear a lot of whining about developing pitching talent - a trade like this (just like the original Adrian Gonzalez trade) shows that some of that is by choice. (such as out of necessity turning a top starting prospect into an elite closer)

 

Kimbrel is - again, the right sort of guy (young, good, under contract) to get for the price they paid - a Top 100 low level SS and a Top 100 high floor, starting caliber CF. But this deal was more problematic because the marginal value of a "great" closer is just not that high.

 

Both trades made sense for both sides. It would have been nice to have the prospects for a Sale or Quintana trade ... but flags fly forever, and certainly both players have helped (at least a little)

[oldtimer]

or he's lost 30 #'s thus far and will continue to shred weight. it is possible.

 

Jesus, what did he weigh before? 270?

[S5Dewey]

Jesus, what did he weigh before? 270?

 

Noooobody knowwwwwws.... but it wasn't pretty. Remember the ST pics of his belly hanging over his belt?

[a700hitter]

Noooobody knowwwwwws.... but it wasn't pretty. Remember the ST pics of his belly hanging over his belt?

He was big enough to bust a belt buckle.