Lineup Discussions

mvp 78 · August 9, 2016

That could work right now, except we really don't know Moncada. From what I read, his power is awesome, but doesn't he strike out a lot? I wonder of we'll see him until spring training. Plug Encanaciana in that hole and, iin front of Betts, he'll see a lot of good pitches.

He strikes out a lot, but he also walks a lot. He's a very patient hitter that knows the strike zone better than the AA umpires.

mvp 78 · August 9, 2016

If Farrell is the coach next year, you can guarantee that Moncada will be hitting 9th in a platoon through the AS break.

a700hitter · August 9, 2016

Did you read those word for word? I generally just skimmed them hoping he'd get to the point.

I spot checked the longer ones. And read the shorter ones.

sk7326 · August 9, 2016

Offense has hit a funk - but also just came from 11 games in pretty pitcher friendly parks. On the bright side, it looks like Benintendi is at least no overwhelmed out there. You can see the .300/.370 sort of potential with 15 HR sort of pop.

Of the two, he is not MVP material (that's Moncada), but quality starter who could make a few ASGs? That looks possible. And yes, the Fred Lynn salad is kind of amazing.

As I noted - I think the team wants him to see the ball go through the net here ... not hold him back per se, but try to shift some matchups and whatnot so he does not come up here and go 2 for 30 right away. It feels like they have accomplished that, now I think he will play quite a bit more.

Bellhorn04 · August 9, 2016

The lead off hitter is considered one of the most likely players in the lineup to get on base. Mookye's is .350. The number 3 hitter is usually the best over all hitter in the lineup. That's is Betts. Mookey's "BA with men in scoring position/ is NEARLY .500!

To be exact:

Mookie's BA with 2 outs and RISP is .500, in 36 at-bats.

Mookie's BA with RISP is .376, in 85 at-bats.

All the more reason I want him at the plate as much as possible!

oldtimer · August 9, 2016

Moncada has taken zero AB's at the MLB level, yet he'd be hitting third next year?

All truth passes through 3 stages.

First it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed.

Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

"Schooenhauer"

Bellhorn04 · August 9, 2016

All truth passes through 3 stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

"Schooenhauer"

I like it.

Station 13 · August 9, 2016

To be exact:

Mookie's BA with 2 outs and RISP is .500, in 36 at-bats.

Mookie's BA with RISP is .376, in 85 at-bats.

All the more reason I want him at the plate as much as possible!

you mean you like Mookie to hit more with RISP opportunities? Then bat him behind higher OBP dudes like Pedroia and JBJ/Bogaerts.

moonslav59 · August 9, 2016

Assuming Papi does not return and we don't sign big hitter, I see this situation:

Locks:

SS: Bogey

RF: Betts

CF: JBJ

2B: Pedey

C: Leon/Vaz/Swihart

The rest is in question:

LF: Probably Beni, with platoon with Young a possibility. Swihart has a shot. Holt is reserve only.

3B: Probably Shaw to begin the season. Maybe Moncada wins the job during the season. Hernandez is a long shot.

1B: HanRam probably starts the season at 1B, but may move to DH, if Moncada wins the 3B job and Shaw moves to 1B. Travis is a long shot.

DH: I see Young and maybe Moncada starting here with Moncada moving to 3B during the season, depending on his defense. If Young platoons with Beni, Moncada may be the FT DH to start the season. I know this seems blasphemous to some who view Moncada as a 5 tool- never DH player, so maybe we just grin and bear it by playing Moncada at 3B to start the year. Shaw can spell him, when we face a tough LH'd pitcher, and Young can DH in those games.

With Moncada playing, I see this:

1) Beni

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) JBJ

5) Pedey

6) HanRam/Young vs LHPs

7) Shaw/HanRam vs LHPs

8) Moncada

9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

(Maybe Shaw sits vs LHPs: 3B Moncada, 1B HanRam & DH Young, maybe Beni sits vs some LHPs with Young in LF, or maybe Moncada sits vs some LHPs)

If Beni has not earned the leadoff slot, we have a tough choice. I might go with:

1) Bogey

2) Pedey

3) Betts

4) JBJ

5) Hanram/Young vs LHPs

6) Shaw/Beni vs LHPs

7) Beni/HanRam vs LHPs

8) Moncada

9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

I'd like to see Swihart and Vaz on the 25 man roster with Leon. Maybe Swi can also learn 1B to give us some flex there.

That means it comes down to Holt or Hernandez. I like Hernandez better, since the need for a super sub is lessened with Papi's departure, and Swihart/Young as back up OF, Shaw/Swi as back up 1B, and Hernandez a better fielder at SS, 3B and maybe 2B over Holt. It's probably best to keep both with Hernandez at AAA for depth, but if we need to include Holt in a big package to get an ace, so be it.

mvp 78 · August 9, 2016

All truth passes through 3 stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

"Schooenhauer"

Trade Pedroia

moonslav59 · August 9, 2016

Trade Pedroia

...then what?

Sign Encarnacion, Rich Hill and two solid RP'ers?

1) Beni LF

2) Bogey SS

3) Betts RF

4) Encarnacion DH

5) JBJ CF

6) HanRam 1B/Shaw 3B

7) Shaw 3B/HanRam 1B

8) Moncada 2B

9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

Bellhorn04 · August 9, 2016

you mean you like Mookie to hit more with RISP opportunities? Then bat him behind higher OBP dudes like Pedroia and JBJ/Bogaerts.

Mookie's OBP since July 1 has been much higher than those guys, so that idea is out the window. Mookie's just about the only guy we have who hasn't been struggling. Moving him in the order isn't going to accomplish anything.

mvp 78 · August 9, 2016

...then what?

Sign Encarnacion, Rich Hill and two solid RP'ers?

1) Beni LF
2) Bogey SS
3) Betts RF
4) Encarnacion DH
5) JBJ CF
6) HanRam 1B/Shaw 3B
7) Shaw 3B/HanRam 1B
8) Moncada 2B
9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

No thanks to Rich Hill.

Eddy Ballgame · August 10, 2016

Assuming Papi does not return and we don't sign big hitter, I see this situation:

Locks:

SS: Bogey
RF: Betts
CF: JBJ
2B: Pedey
C: Leon/Vaz/Swihart

The rest is in question:
LF: Probably Beni, with platoon with Young a possibility. Swihart has a shot. Holt is reserve only.
3B: Probably Shaw to begin the season. Maybe Moncada wins the job during the season. Hernandez is a long shot.
1B: HanRam probably starts the season at 1B, but may move to DH, if Moncada wins the 3B job and Shaw moves to 1B. Travis is a long shot.
DH: I see Young and maybe Moncada starting here with Moncada moving to 3B during the season, depending on his defense. If Young platoons with Beni, Moncada may be the FT DH to start the season. I know this seems blasphemous to some who view Moncada as a 5 tool- never DH player, so maybe we just grin and bear it by playing Moncada at 3B to start the year. Shaw can spell him, when we face a tough LH'd pitcher, and Young can DH in those games.

With Moncada playing, I see this:

1) Beni
2) Bogey
3) Betts
4) JBJ
5) Pedey
6) HanRam/Young vs LHPs
7) Shaw/HanRam vs LHPs
8) Moncada
9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

(Maybe Shaw sits vs LHPs: 3B Moncada, 1B HanRam & DH Young, maybe Beni sits vs some LHPs with Young in LF, or maybe Moncada sits vs some LHPs)

If Beni has not earned the leadoff slot, we have a tough choice. I might go with:

1) Bogey
2) Pedey
3) Betts
4) JBJ
5) Hanram/Young vs LHPs
6) Shaw/Beni vs LHPs
7) Beni/HanRam vs LHPs
8) Moncada
9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

I'd like to see Swihart and Vaz on the 25 man roster with Leon. Maybe Swi can also learn 1B to give us some flex there.

That means it comes down to Holt or Hernandez. I like Hernandez better, since the need for a super sub is lessened with Papi's departure, and Swihart/Young as back up OF, Shaw/Swi as back up 1B, and Hernandez a better fielder at SS, 3B and maybe 2B over Holt. It's probably best to keep both with Hernandez at AAA for depth, but if we need to include Holt in a big package to get an ace, so be it.

If you really believe that there is even a remote chance that Moncada will DH and Swihart will be some sort of super sub at this stage of their development, can you at least name one player with their talent who actually did so in the history of baseball? I can't.

You also mention "If Young platoons with Bentinendi." That would never happen either at this point. Benintendi either wins a full time job in spring training or he will in Pawtucket. I've never heard or seen an example of a top prospect starting a season as a platoon player. Not being a ball buster, I just can't figure out why you think any of these things would ever happen.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

a700hitter · August 10, 2016

When Pedroia hits, this team scores. It is as simple as that.

bowman · August 10, 2016

Still early in his career, but I'm pretty sure if we trade Benny we would have really screwed up... Sweet swing to all fields..

Bellhorn04 · August 10, 2016

When Pedroia hits, this team scores. It is as simple as that.

Rules to live by.

Bellhorn04 · August 10, 2016

Nice 9-1 combination...Beni and the Betts.

devildavid · August 10, 2016

you mean you like Mookie to hit more with RISP opportunities? Then bat him behind higher OBP dudes like Pedroia and JBJ/Bogaerts.

Thank you.

moonslav59 · August 10, 2016

I think his main point is that Pedroia fits the profile of a leadoff batter due to his OBP while Mookie fits the profile of a slugging RBI hitter as evidenced by his SLG.

Except that fangraphs lists Pedey as our second worst baserunner behind Papi.

Bogey has about the same OBP as Pedey, so wy not Bogey first, Pedey second and Betts third?

devildavid · August 10, 2016

I think his main point is that Pedroia fits the profile of a leadoff batter due to his OBP while Mookie fits the profile of a slugging RBI hitter as evidenced by his SLG.

Except that fangraphs lists Pedey as our second worst baserunner behind Papi.

Bogey has about the same OBP as Pedey, so wy not Bogey first, Pedey second and Betts third?

Sounds good to me. Bogey has good speed.

moonslav59 · August 10, 2016

156 qualified batters in MLB

Base running rankings by fangraphs

1) Billy Hamilton 9.6

2) Sterling Marte 7.9

3) Rajai Davis 6.9

4) Brett Gardner 6.8

5) Mike Trout 6.8

6) Mookie Betts 6.7

...

10) Xander Bogaerts 5.4

11) Jackie Bradley 5.4

...

89) Travis Shaw

...

103) Hanley Ramirez

...

149) Dustin Pedroia

...

154) David Ortiz

fangraphs considers Pedey the 8th worst runner in MLB this year.

a700hitter · August 10, 2016

156 qualified batters in MLB

Base running rankings by fangraphs

1) Billy Hamilton 9.6
2) Sterling Marte 7.9
3) Rajai Davis 6.9
4) Brett Gardner 6.8
5) Mike Trout 6.8
6) Mookie Betts 6.7
...
10) Xander Bogaerts 5.4
11) Jackie Bradley 5.4
...
89) Travis Shaw
...
103) Hanley Ramirez
...
149) Dustin Pedroia
...
154) David Ortiz

fangraphs considers Pedey the 8th worst runner in MLB this year.

And fangraphs is again exposed as being very imperfect.

Bellhorn04 · August 10, 2016

I think his main point is that Pedroia fits the profile of a leadoff batter due to his OBP while Mookie fits the profile of a slugging RBI hitter as evidenced by his SLG.

Except that fangraphs lists Pedey as our second worst baserunner behind Papi.

Bogey has about the same OBP as Pedey, so wy not Bogey first, Pedey second and Betts third?

Bogey has been slumping.

Since July 1 he is hitting 258/320/402.

If you want to juggle his spot right now it would make more sense to move him down in the order.

oldtimer · August 10, 2016

Assuming Papi does not return and we don't sign big hitter, I see this situation:

Locks:

SS: Bogey
RF: Betts
CF: JBJ
2B: Pedey
C: Leon/Vaz/Swihart

The rest is in question:
LF: Probably Beni, with platoon with Young a possibility. Swihart has a shot. Holt is reserve only.
3B: Probably Shaw to begin the season. Maybe Moncada wins the job during the season. Hernandez is a long shot.
1B: HanRam probably starts the season at 1B, but may move to DH, if Moncada wins the 3B job and Shaw moves to 1B. Travis is a long shot.
DH: I see Young and maybe Moncada starting here with Moncada moving to 3B during the season, depending on his defense. If Young platoons with Beni, Moncada may be the FT DH to start the season. I know this seems blasphemous to some who view Moncada as a 5 tool- never DH player, so maybe we just grin and bear it by playing Moncada at 3B to start the year. Shaw can spell him, when we face a tough LH'd pitcher, and Young can DH in those games.

With Moncada playing, I see this:

1) Beni
2) Bogey
3) Betts
4) JBJ
5) Pedey
6) HanRam/Young vs LHPs
7) Shaw/HanRam vs LHPs
8) Moncada
9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

(Maybe Shaw sits vs LHPs: 3B Moncada, 1B HanRam & DH Young, maybe Beni sits vs some LHPs with Young in LF, or maybe Moncada sits vs some LHPs)

If Beni has not earned the leadoff slot, we have a tough choice. I might go with:

1) Bogey
2) Pedey
3) Betts
4) JBJ
5) Hanram/Young vs LHPs
6) Shaw/Beni vs LHPs
7) Beni/HanRam vs LHPs
8) Moncada
9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

I'd like to see Swihart and Vaz on the 25 man roster with Leon. Maybe Swi can also learn 1B to give us some flex there.

That means it comes down to Holt or Hernandez. I like Hernandez better, since the need for a super sub is lessened with Papi's departure, and Swihart/Young as back up OF, Shaw/Swi as back up 1B, and Hernandez a better fielder at SS, 3B and maybe 2B over Holt. It's probably best to keep both with Hernandez at AAA for depth, but if we need to include Holt in a big package to get an ace, so be it.

I know your not a big fan of Hanley (neither am I) and would trade him if we could find any reasonable deal. I too see Holt as possible trade bait with Hernandez waiting in the wings but I would keep Hill as a utility infielder. Swihart will undergo ankle surgery so his recovery may take some time next season.

I would err on the side of caution with Encarnacion. Long term contracts for high $$$ rarely work out for guys late in their careers. I would not bat Moncada as a designated hitter. The kid has enormous potential and needs to find a home in the field. If it be at 3rd, so much the better. One scenario is to generate a DH from utility field players existing within our team framework.

The concept of moving Pedey down in the lineup somewhat is a good one. He still is a productive hitting and field player but his bat may be better placed around the 6th spot.

User Name · August 10, 2016

All truth passes through 3 stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

"Schooenhauer"

Truth is based on fact. There is no fact here, only wishful thinking and very flawed logic.

Bellhorn04 · August 10, 2016

#MookieLeads

Spudboy · August 10, 2016

I'd put JBJ back in the 9 hole.

moonslav59 · August 10, 2016

And fangraphs is again exposed as being very imperfect.

Nobody claims to be perfect, but I don't disagree that Pedey is in the bottom tier of base runners.

He's gutsy. His head is in the game, but he's much slower now.

moonslav59 · August 10, 2016

Bogey has been slumping.

Since July 1 he is hitting 258/320/402.

If you want to juggle his spot right now it would make more sense to move him down in the order.

No, I don't. Betts is hot as hell and is getting on base a lot.

I was responding to the idea of putting Pedey first and Bogey second.

If Betts is put third, I don't want Pedey clogging the base paths up first.

I actually like Pedey 5th or 6th despite the high OBP.

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