Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[a700hitter]

Pablo put on 30

And several inches as well.

[a700hitter]

An All Star whose track record is exactly one half of a season. For all the sniveling about the Porcello trade - from a valuation perspective this is quite a bit sillier.

We haven't traded a 35 HR All Star guy for him or given him $82.5 million.

[a700hitter]

So it's true about Sox fans...what a buch of whinny little babies......

I live in NY and hear this from Yankee fans all the time. We make lot of excuses for losing when we lose rather than just admitting that we fielded a horseshit team. We whine about not being able to compete with Yankee $, and now we complain about selling a future that is 4-5 years away in order to get a sought after starting pitcher who is on 27 years old. Oye, what a bunch.

 

Trade has to benefit both teams. It's not DD's fault that we ended up with current sorry ass rotation. It's unconscionable to let this year's productive offensive team go to waste. You really never know how many chance you get. DD did what he had to do. I bet the Sox will still go after Hill, if not now then in off season.

If ERod spits the bit in his next 2 starts, I think that he will make a move to get Hill.

 

It's a great day for my Sox. We came to terms with the next Espinoza, perhaps with higher upside.

 

We also kept Momcada and Benintendi.

[moonslav59]

For a while Owens was considered our future ace...Look how that turned out.

 

Owens was never ranked as high as #14, especially while still in single-A.

 

Pomeranz was traded for next to nothing this past winter. If the Sox liked this guy before 2016, they could have gotten him easily. So, his stock has really risen that much based on a tiny sample size of 100 IP?

 

I'm not buying it.

 

[moonslav59]

Drew Pomeranz at a glance ladies and gentlemen.

 

IPs/ERA/FIP/SIERA/K9/BB9/HR/FB/GB%

 

2014 69/2.35/3.77/3.62/8.35/3.39/10.4/45.7%

2015 86/3.66/3.62/3.73/8.58/3.24/9.3/42.2%

2016 102/2.47/3.18/3.75/3.2/10.15/3.62/8.8/47.8%

 

Seriously guys, he is arguably a No 1-2 type pitcher and in Red Sox standards he is an ace.

 

His last 3 years have been in pitcher's parks.

 

He's never won and held a slot in the rotation until this year, and that's during 6 years in the bigs.

 

He's started 22 games once in his career. His second most before 2016 was 10.

 

That being said, out of the 132 pitchers with 250+ IP since 2014, Drew places...

 

8th in ERA- at 73 (tied with Felix and Sale and Lester)

 

38th in xFIP- at 93 (just above Lackey and Porcello).

 

I'm nota going to pretend to know more than Sox management. I don't like the trade, but certainly there is some evidence to show this guy has some talent.

 

The juryw ill be out on this one for many years though.

 

 

[moonslav59]

FWIW......I like the deal in that I think we got a solid #3 starter who seems to be on the up and up, for cheap money and have him for a few more years. I really don't like giving up Espinoza. I'm probably in the minority on this one...and it's moot for health reasons...but I would have given up a healthy Swihart for this trade over Espinoza any day without batting an eye. I have heard Devers mentioned for a trade instead of Espinoza....and I admit I'm a Devers fanboy....but he has been on fire as of late and still has the best power hit tool in the minor league system...AND is just 19.

 

I'd have given Swihart instead of Espi as well.

 

I'd also have traded Devers and Kopech instead.

 

We may never know if the Padres would have accepted either.

[harmony]

I'd have given Swihart instead of Espi as well.

 

I'd also have traded Devers and Kopech instead.

 

We may never know if the Padres would have accepted either.

And the Padres probably would have preferred Yoan Moncada to Anderson Espinoza.

 

I suspect the Red Sox front office exercised due diligence and concluded that the club could not pass up an Espinoza-for-Pomeranz trade.

[Nick]

Moon and others may end up being 100% correct. But this is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner.

 

Obviously we made the trade for 2016 plaoff run but he's under team control for two more years through 2018. This will solidify our rotation when there's a shortage of pitchers in free agent market. We may need another starter but the four we have now gives us a chance to win when they take the moun.

[Youk Of The Nation]

If this guy is the "best pitching prospect the Sox have had in a long, long time" as some people in this thread have said, (and I'm not convinced of that, it's hard to be sure how a guy is going to do in the majors no matter what he does in the minors) wouldn't DD know that as well? And knowing that, wouldn't the fact that he traded him for a starter who might not be "as good" as this guy might be in the future indicate that maybe DD knows something we don't? Maybe there are issues we aren't aware of. Maybe he's having physical trouble that indicates his career might not be all that long. Maybe off the field he's a psychotic. Granted, that seems unlikely, but in the end we got a guy who is doing well in the major leagues NOW, which we need, and in return gave up a guy who only MIGHT be a good starting pitcher years from now. I'm happy.

[SinceYaz]

I am sure this thread will be melded with another one, but Hugh I am kind of excited about the trade. I know Espinoza was the trade bait and you hate that but I was looking into Pomeranz before I heard of the trade. I think things will be very good considering ... our immediate need.

[Slasher9]

If I'm trading a blue chip prospect, I better get a guy more proven back in return. I like Pomeranz, but not for Espinoza.

 

This was my reaction to this trade.

[southpaw777]

I'd have given Swihart instead of Espi as well.

 

I'd also have traded Devers and Kopech instead.

 

We may never know if the Padres would have accepted either.

 

I wouldnt be so quick to keep adding Kopech in every one of your trades. Ive said this for a while, even when everyone said he was trouble because he took a supplement from gnc to try and gain weight. Not some steroid. And got into a fight...he was 18-19. Give him a break( not you personally). Id rather have to reel him in a little than try to light a fire under his ass...He's got 100+ in his back pocket and good secondary stuff, which has improved. He hit 105 on multiple guns the other night...thats ridiculous!!!

Now with Groome signed, whos also very highly touted, we have a couple potential studs.

Losing Espinoza is tough but when you have a team thats ready to win now and over the next 3-4 years with all this young talent, you HAVE to make a move. esponiza wont even be ready, if at all, until then.

This is the price you pay for young controlled starting pitching. Steep? Yes.

You talked about signing Porcello through his prime years and now we have the same but cheaper. Porcello seems to be figuring it out and inthink the former #5 pick will too. I think Pomeranz is coming into his own. Im guessing DD and co. Does too, so they made the move.

DD said there woild be moves that hurt a bit. This is certainly one of them. Im betting, like the sox, that Pomeranz eases that pain a bit.

Edited July 15, 2016 by southpaw777

[Jack Flap]

Having had some time to mull this over now, I hate losing Espinoza, but I don't think this is the end of the world. I like that we have Pomeranz through 2018; I wish he had more of a track record to go on, making this something of a gamble, but if his breakout this year is legit and he continues to pitch like a #1/2, this could turn out to be well worth it.

 

I love Espinoza's potential, and it will suck not to be able to follow his starts and dream on him from now on. Young pitchers with his upside don't come around every day, and I really pray we made the right choice here. Of course, he is also several years away at minimum, and a lot could happen between now and then. If we had to give up one of the top four, I'd have preferred to send someone like Devers plus other pieces, but it's done.

 

It's not a trade I'd have made, but given the uncertainty inherent with 18 year old pitching prospects and the fact that Pomeranz appears to be coming into his own just as he enters his prime, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that this does turn out for the best. We'll see.

 

(Side note: while there are valid arguments one can make for this trade, the fact that Pomeranz was an All-Star this year really isn't one of them. Brock Holt was an All-Star a year ago. Hopefully no one thinks we should trade Moncada for Bartolo Colon next.)

[cp176]

This was my reaction to this trade.

 

Out of curiosity, what would you expect to get for an 18 year old bluechip prospect who is years away from playing in the major leagues? If he was at the AA or AAA level and was pitching well I would agree with you. There is always a risk involved with any trade but the odds look good for The Red Sox on this one.

[mvp 78]

"It's our birthright as Sox fans to whine about the team." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Jack Flap]

LOL!

 

Yeah! Honestly who cares about 2021 right now?

 

Pomeranz is at very very least a No.3-4 moving forward.

 

I think that's really the problem a lot of people are having with this trade: no one is quite sure just what to expect from Pomeranz. If he's a TOTR guy, awesome! We may be able to justify this even if Espinoza goes on to have a good career. But if he's only a middle/back of the rotation starter in the AL East? Ehhhh.... you don't give up one of the top pitching prospects in baseball for a #3/4.

 

Time will tell.

[mvp 78]

Since Espinoza won't be in the bigs until 2021, I look forward to this topic being in the deadhorse thread for the next 5 years.

[Hitch]

I can see why plenty of people are worried/upset about the trade. The kid looks like he has a very bright future ahead of him, and Pomernaz comes with so much uncertainty.

 

That said, we all knew the pitching needed major help. The club is purring on offence and league leading in lots of ways but we are still 2 games out of first and sometimes feel like we are just hanging on in there.

 

If the Pomeranz of this season is the real deal and he doesn't wear down through the extra work load, this is a great trade. But it's a big 'if'.

 

As always, only time will tell if this is a great/good/middling/bad/WTF was you thinking? trade.

[cp176]

Since Espinoza won't be in the bigs until 2021, I look forward to this topic being in the deadhorse thread for the next 5 years.

 

Come on - don't you get it! This trade jeopardizes the future of this team. to hell with the next 5 years. We are talking future - future here.

[mvp 78]

Come on - don't you get it! This trade jeopardizes the future of this team. to hell with the next 5 years. We are talking future - future here.

 

Future me is already annoyed at the moaning during any start where Pomeranz isn't "ace-like."

[Hitch]

Come on - don't you get it! This trade jeopardizes the future of this team. to hell with the next 5 years. We are talking future - future here.

 

Come on, that's unfair on people and you know it. They didn't mind prospects being traded(they knew we'd have to suffer some pain to sort the pitching), but they didn't want Espinoza traded.

[Hitch]

Future me is already annoyed at the moaning during any start where Pomeranz isn't "ace-like."

 

This will definitely be tedious.

[cp176]

Come on, that's unfair on people and you know it. They didn't mind prospects being traded(they knew we'd have to suffer some pain to sort the pitching), but they didn't want Espinoza traded.

 

the sky has fallen

[cp176]

Future me is already annoyed at the moaning during any start where Pomeranz isn't "ace-like."

 

 

hope he doesn't pitch when I am down there - lol - wait maybe I do! Wouldn't mind seeing a good young pitcher do his thing for us in Fenway!

[mvp 78]

Come on, that's unfair on people and you know it. They didn't mind prospects being traded(they knew we'd have to suffer some pain to sort the pitching), but they didn't want Espinoza traded.

 

They weren't getting a worthwhile starter without giving up Espinoza.

 

Dombrowski was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

[cp176]

They weren't getting a worthwhile starter without giving up Espinoza.

 

Dombrowski was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

 

here is a wrench in the works for you - Maybe DD has little confidence that our boys can develop a starting pitcher from a prospect. It has been done so rarely as been noted numerous times. If I had to place a bet based on the odds, I would bet against the organizations ability to develop a young pitching prospect. Just being a little sarcastic - we have done fairly well without producing the pitchers that some others have. i like Dombrowski. i like the fact that our program is being run by an adult who is tough and who has a proven track record of success. He wants to win now and in the future as well.

[Jack Flap]

They weren't getting a worthwhile starter without giving up Espinoza.

 

Dombrowski was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

 

I guess this depends on one's definition of "worthwhile," but in no way do I believe this.

 

I know DD said last night that teams were asking for the same sort of return for rentals as for controlled pitchers, but it's still 2 1/2 weeks before the deadline -- of course the asking prices are crazy. I'll ban myself from this forum if Beane ends up getting an Espinoza-quality prospect for Hill, for example.

 

It may work out, and it may not, but this was a panic move, pure and simple.

[cp176]

I guess this depends on one's definition of "worthwhile," but in no way do I believe this.

 

I know DD said last night that teams were asking for the same sort of return for rentals as for controlled pitchers, but it's still 2 1/2 weeks before the deadline -- of course the asking prices are crazy. I'll ban myself from this forum if Beane ends up getting an Espinoza-quality prospect for Hill, for example.

 

It may work out, and it may not, but this was a panic move, pure and simple.

 

Not at all!

[jacksonianmarch]

Pomeranz is a two pitch pitcher who can't stay healthy. He's been a swing pitcher his entire career before settling into the rotation in Petco park. All of a sudden, he's a "must have". He's never thrown more than 100IP in a major league season. He walks his fair share of hitters. He's having a hell of a season. But he's a lefty entering Fenway. He's worth something. But is he worth the #14 prospect in all of baseball who has lights out stuff as a full season 18 yr old? If Espinosa was a given to be dealt for pitching, I'd expect it to be for someone with a bit more track record

[Slasher9]

Out of curiosity, what would you expect to get for an 18 year old bluechip prospect who is years away from playing in the major leagues? If he was at the AA or AAA level and was pitching well I would agree with you. There is always a risk involved with any trade but the odds look good for The Red Sox on this one.

 

Me? i would either get bonafide TOTR starter or hold on to him. but i get it...the pickings are slim and the costs are extremely high. but as Moon pointed out...with a bit of foresight we could have had Pom for far, far less this past offseason.....

that being said....if Pom helps us get a parade this year then i dont care if Espy goes on to win 4 CY's. it was worth the trade. (my same exact thoughts on the 2013 trade).