Sox get Brad Ziegler

[sk7326]

exactly the right sort of deal for a reliever - Ziegler will help

[moonslav59]

I know the perception is this wasn't the "good Basabe" but this guys stock was skyrocketing, impressing scouts all year, so for all we know there are teams out there who view him as the better prospect right now.

 

Yes, and the supposed "good Basaba" is doing poorly.

[Hugh2]

Yes, and the supposed "good Basaba" is doing poorly.

 

Well I don't get too caught up in Milb stats with young players. They need to produce eventually but a lot more scouting and projection go into how guys are valued the lower you go. I think Alexander is kind of looked at the same without his value being impacted that much but Alejandro has really increased his value.

 

The Sox prospects were poised to move him up into the 9-11 range assuming Groomed signed which means without Groome he'd be 8-10. So we can deduce that at least one source had the Basabes switch which one was the good one. But perhaps they are just selling high on him too, or he could be emerging.

[Emp9]

I see what you guys are saying, but this move might very well have temporarily saved our season. And if Kimbrel makes it back in time our BP is stacked for a post-season run.

[oldtimer]

With Kimbrel going out for 6 weeks it is fortuitous and perhaps lucky that DD traded for Brad Ziegler. Without him, our bullpen would have been hopelessly thin. The cost for the trade does not seem inordinate. Assuming Kimbrel gets back in September he should be well rested and hopefully able to return to his closer role. There are still bullpen moves that we could make, but it looks like any starting pitching move would cost a lot in prospects and dollars. Maybe someone within the organization can blossom into a 4th or 5th starter. We still have hope with ERod. Why can't the Red Sox develop pitching from the minors?

[moonslav59]

Well I don't get too caught up in Milb stats with young players. They need to produce eventually but a lot more scouting and projection go into how guys are valued the lower you go. I think Alexander is kind of looked at the same without his value being impacted that much but Alejandro has really increased his value.

 

The Sox prospects were poised to move him up into the 9-11 range assuming Groomed signed which means without Groome he'd be 8-10. So we can deduce that at least one source had the Basabes switch which one was the good one. But perhaps they are just selling high on him too, or he could be emerging.

 

soxprospects.com already put out their summer rankings and jumped Luis Alejandro up from 34 to 18.

[moonslav59]

With Kimbrel going out for 6 weeks it is fortuitous and perhaps lucky that DD traded for Brad Ziegler. Without him, our bullpen would have been hopelessly thin. The cost for the trade does not seem inordinate. Assuming Kimbrel gets back in September he should be well rested and hopefully able to return to his closer role. There are still bullpen moves that we could make, but it looks like any starting pitching move would cost a lot in prospects and dollars. Maybe someone within the organization can blossom into a 4th or 5th starter. We still have hope with ERod. Why can't the Red Sox develop pitching from the minors?

 

Not disagreeing, but Barnes is looking very good.

[Nick]

Not disagreeing, but Barnes is looking very good.

 

He has looked good. We need for Kelly to come in and do a decent job. I'm not sold on Tazawa and Koji needs more rest in between appearances. Ziegler may end up being the closer. We're two games up on Houston for the wildcard. Not time to panic.

[moonslav59]

He has looked good. We need for Kelly to come in and do a decent job. I'm not sold on Tazawa and Koji needs more rest in between appearances. Ziegler may end up being the closer. We're two games up on Houston for the wildcard. Not time to panic.

 

Last winter, I suggested making Kelly or Buch the closer, and I guess we'll never know how that might have worked out, but at this point, I'm not expecting much from Kelly in any role.

[FredLynn]

Last winter, I suggested making Kelly or Buch the closer, and I guess we'll never know how that might have worked out, but at this point, I'm not expecting much from Kelly in any role.

 

Barnes has been very good, with a few notable exceptions. He is a good strikeout pitcher, and I would personally prefer that he be given a shot at closing games over Uehara. Ziegler could be the primary closer, then Barnes.

[moonslav59]

Barnes has been very good, with a few notable exceptions. He is a good strikeout pitcher, and I would personally prefer that he be given a shot at closing games over Uehara. Ziegler could be the primary closer, then Barnes.

 

I think if Uehara struggles, we'll see Ziegler before Barnes, but your choice might be better. I think Hembree might also have an outside shot.

[FredLynn]

I think if Uehara struggles, we'll see Ziegler before Barnes, but your choice might be better. I think Hembree might also have an outside shot.

 

I meant that if Ziegler is not available lets use Barnes, not Koji. I don't think he has it any more. Just the location of his pitches...not sharp.

[Nick]

I just can't see Koji going through Orioles or Blue Jays anymore....I hope we move away from him and Tazawa when season comes an end. Sometimes you have to know when to move on.....

[moonslav59]

I just can't see Koji going through Orioles or Blue Jays anymore....I hope we move away from him and Tazawa when season comes an end. Sometimes you have to know when to move on.....

 

I tend to agree. Both might be costly, and I think it's time for some fresh arms/looks.

[Nick]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZiegler......ok, just had to do it....I liked the second pitcher for Tampa....he's better than Buch...just saying

[S5Dewey]

I just can't see Koji going through Orioles or Blue Jays anymore....I hope we move away from him and Tazawa when season comes an end. Sometimes you have to know when to move on.....

 

I respectfully disagree. IMO Koji has to be the closer to be at his best. It's in his mind. I've thought for some time that he's as good as he is because he won't let himself be unsuccessful. It's in his culture.

 

And on the days he closes I hope I'm right!

[Nick]

I respectfully disagree. IMO Koji has to be the closer to be at his best. It's in his mind. I've thought for some time that he's as good as he is because he won't let himself be unsuccessful. It's in his culture.

 

And on the days he closes I hope I'm right!

 

And I want you to be right...and me wrong.

 

I'm also good with Clay B making a 180 and shove it up my ass with good second half performance.

[S5Dewey]

We now have an "X" and a "Z". If Moncada can be brought up we'll have our "Y".

 

...just an observation.

[Kimmi]

I respectfully disagree. IMO Koji has to be the closer to be at his best. It's in his mind. I've thought for some time that he's as good as he is because he won't let himself be unsuccessful. It's in his culture.

 

And on the days he closes I hope I'm right!

 

Koji has received a lot of criticism because his numbers are not flashy, but the bottom line is, Koji has gotten the job done at the same rate that Kimbrel has. Kimbrel might do it in a more dominant fashion, but Koji has been solid as far as holding and saving games goes.

[mvp 78]

My concern is:

Koji: HR9 2.1

Kimbrel: HR9 0.8

 

Also, Koji is older and the miles on his arm force him to be a little more micro managed than Kimbrel.

[sk7326]

My concern is:

Koji: HR9 2.1

Kimbrel: HR9 0.8

 

Also, Koji is older and the miles on his arm force him to be a little more micro managed than Kimbrel.

 

Definitely true - although Kimbrel has also been micromanaged ... makes Ziegler even more useful to have.

[Kimmi]

My concern is:

Koji: HR9 2.1

Kimbrel: HR9 0.8

 

Also, Koji is older and the miles on his arm force him to be a little more micro managed than Kimbrel.

 

I am not arguing that Koji's stats don't look as good as Kimbrel's. He has not completed the job as effectively as Kimbrel has in terms of ERA, Ks, etc. But in terms of hold/save%, which is the bottom line, he has gotten the job done as effectively as Kimbrel.

[a700hitter]

The question is who do you want to hand the ball at the end of the game, no numbers needed. Right now, I am leaning Kimbrel, but not by a lot.

[S5Dewey]

I dunno. Maybe I got spoiled in the past few years, but I want my reliever to throw STRIKES. Kimbrel drives me crazy with his going 3-1 or 3-2 on hitters. And the LAST thing I want my reliever to do is walk people! Yes, at the end of the day (or inning) he gets the job done but his margin for error is razor thin in too many games for my liking.

 

IMO the next few weeks are going to be interesting in seeing if Koji still "has it". If he does, when Kimbrel comes back then he pitches the 8th and Koji pitches the 9th if I'm the manager. If he doesn't still have "it" then Ziegler is going to be seeing more work, and at least we'll have some insight as to what to do about re-signing Koji for next season.

[Emp9]

I've a feeling Ziegler will get his share of save opportunities in the coming weeks.

[Kimmi]

The question is who do you want to hand the ball at the end of the game, no numbers needed. Right now, I am leaning Kimbrel, but not by a lot.

 

Right now, I would take Kimbrel over Koji, but I'm not cringing or anything when Koji is called on to close the game.

[Kimmi]

I've a feeling Ziegler will get his share of save opportunities in the coming weeks.

 

Farrell has stated that Koji will be the closer until Kimbrel returns. That could obviously change very quickly. Ziegler will still get his share of opportunities when Koji is unavailable.