Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Emp9]

Had a funny feeling Ziegler wld be closing sooner or later, however it happened. Time to call-up Kelly?

[mvp 78]

Dog Ziegler is the closer for now. I don't like Taz in the closer role. I'd rather Ross come in as the closer than Taz.

[mvp 78]

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/07/joe_kellys_transition_to_bosto.html

 

Kelly will probably be called up, but I wouldn't make him the closer unless he gets on a serious roll.

[Slasher9]

Dog Ziegler is the closer for now. I don't like Taz in the closer role. I'd rather Ross come in as the closer than Taz.

 

In.

[moonslav59]

Dog Ziegler is the closer for now. I don't like Taz in the closer role. I'd rather Ross come in as the closer than Taz.

 

I'd rather try Hembree or maybe even Barnes before Ross.

[a700hitter]

Taz cannot handle closing. He has spit the bit whenever he has been given the opportunity. He doesn't like the role

[mvp 78]

I'd rather try Hembree or maybe even Barnes before Ross.

 

Ross did fine when given the opportunity last year.

[mvp 78]

Also, Ross has a better FIP and WHIP than either Hembree or Barnes.

[mvp 78]

I know. I know. I'm a Robbie Ross superfan or something... But that guy is a solid reliever who gets little to no credit on here.

[moonslav59]

I know. I know. I'm a Robbie Ross superfan or something... But that guy is a solid reliever who gets little to no credit on here.

 

I like Ross too, but he's going through a rough patch, and now might not be the time to thrust him into pressure situations.

 

Last 28 days:

9 IP

11 H

3 BB

1.56 WHIP (not counting 1 HBP)

8 ER

8.00 ERA

4.07 BAbip might explain some of it.

He also let up 6 of those 8 ERs in one game (0.1 IP)

Since June 1st, he's let up 10 ERs, 13 Hits and 4 BBs in 12 IP.

[mvp 78]

I like Ross too, but he's going through a rough patch, and now might not be the time to thrust him into pressure situations.

 

Last 28 days:

9 IP

11 H

3 BB

1.56 WHIP (not counting 1 HBP)

8 ER

8.00 ERA

4.07 BAbip might explain some of it.

He also let up 6 of those 8 ERs in one game (0.1 IP)

Since June 1st, he's let up 10 ERs, 13 Hits and 4 BBs in 12 IP.

 

He had one awful performance that has skewed his numbers. Can't really say it's a "rough patch." He hasn't given up any runs in all 5 of his appearances since getting lit up on 7/2.

[moonslav59]

He had one awful performance that has skewed his numbers. Can't really say it's a "rough patch." He hasn't given up any runs in all 5 of his appearances since getting lit up on 7/2.

 

I mentioned that one bad outing.

[mvp 78]

I mentioned that one bad outing.

 

But you claimed "he's going through a rough patch."

 

How is that a rough patch exactly?

[illinoisredsox]

All of this makes for nice discussion, but Ziegler gets the closer role for now if for no other reason than he's done before, and done it quite effectively.

 

He was 18 of 20 THIS YEAR with the Diamondbacks. When he blew a save in late June, it ended a streak of 43 straight.

He was 30 of 32 last year.

He has 81 saves over his career.

 

If Farrell turns anywhere else, the Referendum on John Farrel thread should rightly explode.

[moonslav59]

But you claimed "he's going through a rough patch."

 

How is that a rough patch exactly?

 

Depends on how many games you go back. That one bad game is one hell of a rough patch. A couple games before than was a bad game.

 

Certainly, if you start the sample size right after that horrible game, he's not struggling at all. 5.2 IP 3H 0 BB 0 ER is fantastic.

 

I found it puzzling that Jf seemed to be ignoring Ross for a stretch before that blow up game. From June 8th to July 2nd, he only pitched 6 times. From June 12th to July 2nd he only pitched in 5 games.

[mvp 78]

Depends on how many games you go back. That one bad game is one hell of a rough patch. A couple games before than was a bad game.

 

Certainly, if you start the sample size right after that horrible game, he's not struggling at all. 5.2 IP 3H 0 BB 0 ER is fantastic.

 

I found it puzzling that Jf seemed to be ignoring Ross for a stretch before that blow up game. From June 8th to July 2nd, he only pitched 6 times. From June 12th to July 2nd he only pitched in 5 games.

 

And maybe the lack of use is why he blew up on the 2nd?

 

Farrell's use of the bullpen is definitely a concern for me.

[moonslav59]

And maybe the lack of use is why he blew up on the 2nd?

 

Farrell's use of the bullpen is definitely a concern for me.

 

Me too.

 

I remember hearing talk about why Ross seemed to be in the doghouse, even though he was doing well.

[Dojji]

Ross is a bit of crapshoot, we've seen good-Ross most of this year, but I think we've all seen enough of bad-Ross that we have an idea why JF isn't thrilled to bring him out in a tight situation.

[mvp 78]

Ross is a bit of crapshoot, we've seen good-Ross most of this year, but I think we've all seen enough of bad-Ross that we have an idea why JF isn't thrilled to bring him out in a tight situation.

 

He's been a reliable reliever for the most part since 6/1/15. That's more than we can say for most guys we've thrown out there.

[moonslav59]

He's been a reliable reliever for the most part since 6/1/15. That's more than we can say for most guys we've thrown out there.

 

...and since the vast majority of RPer's are up and down, I'll choose the guy on a good streak and hope he's not due for a down tick.

[Bellhorn04]

Mind-boggling facts:

 

Our #1 starter, statistically, is Wright. Our maximum financial commitment to him is $514,500.

Our #3 starter, statistically, is Price. Our maximum financial commitment to him is $217,000,000.

[Kimmi]

Some more mind boggling facts:

 

Jason Mastrodonato ‏@JMastrodonato 9h9 hours ago

 

David Price entering tonight (among 92 qualified SP):

IP: 130, 6th

ERA: 4.36, 61st

K: 141, 7th

H: 132, 88th

 

That is the 142nd hit allowed by David Price this season. No pitcher in baseball has allowed more.

 

Tonight was the third game the Red Sox have lost this season when scoring at least seven runs for David Price.

 

I am a huge fan of Fangraphs WAR, but in the case of Price, there is some disconnect between WAR and how well Price is actually pitching. Fangraphs WAR really likes IP and Ks (or more accurately K/W ratio), both of which Price has excelled with, and there is value to both of those things. There are games in which Price has pitched deep into the game and had terrific K/W numbers. However, fWAR is not taking into account the large number of hits he has given up.

 

Price currently has an fWAR of 2.9. (I don't think that has been updated for last night's start.) That puts him 11th overall behind Kershaw, Fernandez, Syndegaard, Cueto, Kluber, Bumgarner, Tanaka, Arrieta, Strasburg, Scherzer, and Quintana. Thinking about how those other guys have pitched, Price just does not belong on that list this year.

 

At this rate, it also makes it appear that Price has been worth his $30 million contract. IMO, he hasn't really been close.

[User Name]

Oh, so now fangraphs is wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

Price currently has an fWAR of 2.9. (I don't think that has been updated for last night's start.) That puts him 11th overall behind Kershaw, Fernandez, Syndegaard, Cueto, Kluber, Bumgarner, Tanaka, Arrieta, Strasburg, Scherzer, and Quintana. Thinking about how those other guys have pitched, Price just does not belong on that list this year.

 

Price's bWAR is 1.5, which seems realistic.

 

So can we say that bWAR for pitchers is more reliable than fWAR?

[Slasher9]

Mind-boggling facts:

 

Our #1 starter, statistically, is Wright. Our maximum financial commitment to him is $514,500.

Our #3 starter, statistically, is Price. Our maximum financial commitment to him is $217,000,000.

 

Sorry HFX. Pom is our #3 starter. Price is our #4 at best.

Like I posted a week or so ago.....price will pitch out of the pen IF we make the playoffs. Or at least he deserves to......

[bowman]

Okay, Kelley called up, Hembree sent down. Hopefully he can dominate for an inning or so and help shore up the bullpen. Worth a try at this point.

[Dojji]

no i don't think we can. Personally i think both stats have their strong points. I tend to be one that thinks it matters rather little HOW outs are recorded so I favor bWAR but I feel that at the least understanding how the 2 stats differ helps inform us even more about our athletes.

 

Kimmi, yes Price is surrendering a ton of hits but IMHO it's nott all bad for Price. He is nowhere near to living up to his deal ofc but he's not pitching like a liability either. With last night factored in his WHIP is still below 1.3 and he's logging a lot of innings, both of thise facts do not change because he's put up some stinkers.

 

Yes it is frustrating when the guy who of all our starters is supposed to be reliably dominant is instead merely adequate. Yes we're getting a 4 when we paid for a 1. No that is not a good reason to abandon our patience and objectivity.

[Bellhorn04]

Sorry HFX. Pom is our #3 starter. Price is our #4 at best.

 

We'll see about Pom. He got off to a wee bit of a wobbly start himself...sigh.

[User Name]

^Right on the money. It boggles the mind how people here will go to war for Buccholz, who has been a disappointment for years, but will s*** all over Price who's been here for half a season. Stockholm syndrome maybe?

 

I was referring to Dojji's post.

[bowman]

So we started out with starting pitching depth and now 2 of them in the pen. One ready for a straight jacket. I know no one wants to lose any more prospects, but I have a feeling at least one more big move is coming. I love Ziggy, not sure yet on Pom. If Erod keeps it together, we know he can be real good and who knows how good down the road. DD gets paid to make these decisions. If him and UH Henry feel they are all in for this year, anything can happen. I really don't think Moncada is going anywhere, but who knows. I want a team built to contend for a few years, so they better make smart moves...