Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[a700hitter]

Red Sox fans tend to be snobs about the ALE, but they have not been the premier division for a number of years. The Central has been a better division and prior to this year the west had been tougher too.

[a700hitter]

The deal is done

 

[h=2]White Sox To Acquire James Shields From Padres[/h] By Charlie Wilmoth and Connor Byrne | June 4, 2016 at 3:55pm CDT

 

 

3:55pm: The White Sox will pay $27MM of Shields’ remaining $56MM if he doesn’t opt out, tweets Nightengale.

3:49pm: It’ll be Shields and cash considerations for Johnson and Tatis, sources from the Padres and White Sox have confirmed to ESPN’s Jim Bowden.

[harmony]

The deal is done

Although they're different types of righthanders, Matt Barnes and Erik Johnson are similar in age, size, MLB service, and college, draft and prospect-ranking pedigree.

[Bellhorn04]

This dispels the notion that it's too early to make a deal.

[Hugh2]

This dispels the notion that it's too early to make a deal.

 

Not really, deals happen like this because a team is in sell mode and they find a buyer. Just because it happens doesn't mean the market is flush with sellers in early June. Yes, Shields got put on the market but the majority of guys who will be for sale in 6-8 weeks from now have G.M.s who are either not taking calls or it would take a much higher offer to get them to bite early.

[bosoxmal]

Where's Marabelli? There must be someone around who can catch this guy. Zero earned runs. Many of those passed balls were catcheable.

[Hugh2]

Where's Marabelli? There must be someone around who can catch this guy. Zero earned runs. Many of those passed balls were catcheable.

 

I was just thinking the same thing. If there was a catcher who can catch a knuckleball well to be had he could help increase our chances of winning every 5th day. As good as wright is, the Sox are 5-5 in his starts.

[Jasonbay44]

If Hanigan can't catch Wright well, I'm not really sure what he brings to this team. His bat is pathetically bad and he's had a rough year on defense.

[moonslav59]

The deal is done

 

Wow, the CWS only have to pay $27M out of $56M left!

 

They gave uo 26 y/o Johnson- no biggie and 17 y/p SS prospect Fernando Tatis. He could be a great one, but he's a long way from the bigs.

 

Gotta think DD just wasn't that interested.

 

I trust our scouts know more than we do.

[moonslav59]

If Hanigan can't catch Wright well, I'm not really sure what he brings to this team. His bat is pathetically bad and he's had a rough year on defense.

 

Didn't Vazquez and Swihart get some time with Wright in the minors?

 

I'm not sure why they keep Hanigan with Wright.

[harmony]

Wow, the CWS only have to pay $27M out of $56M left!

 

They gave uo 26 y/o Johnson- no biggie and 17 y/p SS prospect Fernando Tatis. He could be a great one, but he's a long way from the bigs.

 

Gotta think DD just wasn't that interested.

 

I trust our scouts know more than we do.

I suspect a comparable Red Sox offer would have been Matt Barnes and 17-year-old outfield prospect Albert Guaimaro, whom the Sox signed out of Venezuela last July.

 

However, the Padres probably wanted a pitcher who could immediately replace James Shields in their rotation. Barnes would be unlikely to make a prompt transition from the bullpen to a starting rotation.

 

Although they're different types of righthanders, Matt Barnes and Erik Johnson are similar in age, size, MLB service, career fWAR, and college, draft and prospect-ranking pedigree.

[Palodios]

27 million for 2.7 years of James Shields seems like a steal. We paid 13 million/year for Dempster afterall.

 

I don't care if Shields would averaged a 5.00 ERA at Fenway, he's still would have been a huge improvement over the guys in the #5 spot now.

[a700hitter]

27 million for 2.7 years of James Shields seems like a steal. We paid 13 million/year for Dempster afterall.

 

I don't care if Shields would averaged a 5.00 ERA at Fenway, he's still would have been a huge improvement over the guys in the #5 spot now.

Yep

[moonslav59]

I suspect a comparable Red Sox offer would have been Matt Barnes and 17-year-old outfield prospect Albert Guaimaro, whom the Sox signed out of Venezuela last July.

 

However, the Padres probably wanted a pitcher who could immediately replace James Shields in their rotation. Barnes would be unlikely to make a prompt transition from the bullpen to a starting rotation.

 

Although they're different types of righthanders, Matt Barnes and Erik Johnson are similar in age, size, MLB service, career fWAR, and college, draft and prospect-ranking pedigree.

 

Think they would have taken Owens, Johnson and Dubon?

[moonslav59]

27 million for 2.7 years of James Shields seems like a steal. We paid 13 million/year for Dempster afterall.

 

I don't care if Shields would averaged a 5.00 ERA at Fenway, he's still would have been a huge improvement over the guys in the #5 spot now.

 

Totally agree. $10M a year is nice.

[harmony]

Think they would have taken Owens, Johnson and Dubon?

Perhaps but I suspect the Padres wanted an immediate replacement for James Shields in the San Diego rotation. Brian Johnson and Henry Owens may be too broken right now to fill that role.

 

Or not.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps but I suspect the Padres wanted an immediate replacement for James Shields in the San Diego rotation. Brian Johnson and Henry Owens may be too broken right now to fill that role.

 

Or not.

 

I'm not sure why the Padres would need a replacement now, since they are toast, but if that's true, what about Kelly?

[harmony]

I'm not sure why the Padres would need a replacement now, since they are toast, but if that's true, what about Kelly?

San Diego is not a dumping ground.

 

With his negative 0.2 fWAR and negative 0.7 bWAR this year and about $1.8 million left on his 2016 salary, Joe Kelly comes with two and 2/3 years of team control.

 

I suspect the Padres would rather take their chances with Erik Johnson and his five and 2/3 years of team control.

[moonslav59]

San Diego is not a dumping ground.

 

With his negative 0.2 fWAR and negative 0.7 bWAR this year and about $1.8 million left on his 2016 salary, Joe Kelly comes with two and 2/3 years of team control.

 

I suspect the Padres would rather take their chances with Erik Johnson and his five and 2/3 years of team control.

 

Then why not take your chances on 10+ years of control with both Owens and Johnson or maybe even Kopech instead of one?

[User Name]

Owens can't throw strikes, Johnsonn is getting treated for anxiety issues and Kopech is untouchable with his behavioral issues. Be realistic.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Owens can't throw strikes, Johnsonn is getting treated for anxiety issues and Kopech is untouchable with his behavioral issues. Be realistic.

 

The irony of it is that he's the author of the "realistic" thread!

[moonslav59]

The irony of it is that he's the author of the "realistic" thread!

 

So, what you're saying is that Erik Johnson can throw stirkes? And I'm unrealistic to think 2 from Owens, Johnson or Kopech is so wildly worse than Erik J?

 

Have you looked at Erik's numbers?

 

Here, I'll do the legwork for you:

 

4.5 BB/9 rate career in 98 IP (3.4 in AAA)

1.57 WHIP career (1.34 AAA)

 

Owens:

4.4 BB/9 in 75 IP (4.3 in AAA/3.7 AA)

1.49 WHIP (1.207 in AAA/ 1.12 AA)

 

Maybe 2 of these guys are not equal to Erik, but it's got to be close.

 

In 2014, Erik had a 6.98 ERA in AAA. He pitched much better in 2015, but this guy is not clearly better than 2 from Owens, Johnson and Kopech.

[Dalas21000]

2 things...Can someone tell me why Joe Kelly got sent down to AAA for an assignment???and why did Boegarts bunt with 2 men on in the 1st inning,Sunday(6/5)?

[User Name]

So, what you're saying is that Erik Johnson can throw stirkes? And I'm unrealistic to think 2 from Owens, Johnson or Kopech is so wildly worse than Erik J?

 

Have you looked at Erik's numbers?

 

Here, I'll do the legwork for you:

 

4.5 BB/9 rate career in 98 IP (3.4 in AAA)

1.57 WHIP career (1.34 AAA)

 

Owens:

4.4 BB/9 in 75 IP (4.3 in AAA/3.7 AA)

1.49 WHIP (1.207 in AAA/ 1.12 AA)

 

Maybe 2 of these guys are not equal to Erik, but it's got to be close.

 

In 2014, Erik had a 6.98 ERA in AAA. He pitched much better in 2015, but this guy is not clearly better than 2 from Owens, Johnson and Kopech.

 

Erik Johnsonn isn't the get for the Padres in the deal, he's just a warm body to throw some IP. He's also a guy who might benefit moving from US Cellular to Petco since his main problem besides control is a tendency to give up a lot of flyballs.

 

The get is Tatis jr., who's raw but very toolsy and highly-regarded.

[harmony]

So, what you're saying is that Erik Johnson can throw stirkes? And I'm unrealistic to think 2 from Owens, Johnson or Kopech is so wildly worse than Erik J?

 

Have you looked at Erik's numbers?

 

Here, I'll do the legwork for you:

 

4.5 BB/9 rate career in 98 IP (3.4 in AAA)

1.57 WHIP career (1.34 AAA)

 

Owens:

4.4 BB/9 in 75 IP (4.3 in AAA/3.7 AA)

1.49 WHIP (1.207 in AAA/ 1.12 AA)

 

Maybe 2 of these guys are not equal to Erik, but it's got to be close.

 

In 2014, Erik had a 6.98 ERA in AAA. He pitched much better in 2015, but this guy is not clearly better than 2 from Owens, Johnson and Kopech.

 

We don't know whether Henry Owens, Brian Johnson and/or Michael Kopech were in play in negotiations, if the Red Sox took part in negotiations at all.

 

The body of stats might be comparable, but Owens. Johnson and Kopech each have recent concerns that Erik Johnson may lack.

 

I suspect the Padres discussed a James Shields trade with many clubs and decided that the White Sox deal was the best ... and perhaps the Red Sox were neither interested in Shields nor willing to include Owens, Johnson or Kopech in a package.

 

A Sox rotation of David Price, Rick Porcello, Steven Wright, Eduardo Rodriguez and Clay Buchholz/Joe Kelly might be enough despite the likely frustrations.

[Hitch]

 

A Sox rotation of David Price, Rick Porcello, Steven Wright, Eduardo Rodriguez and Clay Buchholz/Joe Kelly might be enough despite the likely frustrations.

 

I don't think so. Our rotation is struggling badly. This team doesn't compete come the play offs unless it gets pitching help.

[a700hitter]

We don't know whether Henry Owens, Brian Johnson and/or Michael Kopech were in play in negotiations, if the Red Sox took part in negotiations at all.

 

The body of stats might be comparable, but Owens. Johnson and Kopech each have recent concerns that Erik Johnson may lack.

 

I suspect the Padres discussed a James Shields trade with many clubs and decided that the White Sox deal was the best ... and perhaps the Red Sox were neither interested in Shields nor willing to include Owens, Johnson or Kopech in a package.

 

A Sox rotation of David Price, Rick Porcello, Steven Wright, Eduardo Rodriguez and Clay Buchholz/Joe Kelly might be enough despite the likely frustrations.

This rotation has been exposed. The team managed to lose game in the last week where they scored 9, 9 and 7 runs.

[illinoisredsox]

2 things...Can someone tell me why Joe Kelly got sent down to AAA for an assignment???and why did Boegarts bunt with 2 men on in the 1st inning,Sunday(6/5)?

 

1) Because he has been terrible in 3 of his 4 outings. He came back strong last year after being sent to the minors, let's hope it happens again. He has to learn control within the strike zone, and actually learning to pitch instead of throw would be nice as well. Estrada was pitching yesterday and showed that Warren Spahn's old adage is true (Hitting is timing, pitching is upsetting timing).

 

2) That was totally done on his own and he almost certainly got a lecture once he got back to the dugout.

[User Name]

This rotation has been exposed. The team managed to lose game in the last week where they scored 9, 9 and 7 runs.

 

Weren't two of those games lost by the BP though?

[a700hitter]

Weren't two of those games lost by the BP though?

No Quality Start in any of those games. If the starter can't give you a quality start which needs to equate to nothing more than a a 4.50 era, you are not doing the job. In one of those games, Kelly gave up 7 runs in 2 innings, but did not get the loss.