Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

JBJ is about as close to untradeable as you can get. So last night we got to see Kelly and Buch in the same game. Good Lord.

[cp176]

The time is certainly now to try to turn Kelly into a reliever. He's that or nothing.

 

He has proven to be horribly inconsistent. Said he did not see this move back to AAA coming. Guess he should have looked over his shoulder before he started the game. If he could throw the ball over the plate a little more often, maybe he could help us in the pen, maybe not. I am looking forward to the day that we have 2 other options to look forward to as opposed to Kelly and Buch. My personal timeline for waiting for them to become something I don't think that they will ever become has expired.

[southpaw777]

JBJ is about as close to untradeable as you can get. So last night we got to see Kelly and Buch in the same game. Good Lord.

 

Unfortunately I dont agree. I think out of Bogey betts and JBJ, JBJ is the first to go if another team demands one. Not because hes the worst one, just that I feel the sox value the other two Bs first. Swihart is also another candidate to be in a trade. I would watch for either of those two, or both depending whos coming back, to go if we were to acquire a TOTR young controlled starter...and MiLB prospects.

I hope we could do it without having to give up one of our kids on the mlb roster, but I doubt we can get what we want without doing just that.

If we go get a rich hill type then i dont think we have to worry about it.

Edited June 2, 2016 by southpaw777

[Emp9]

The time is certainly now to try to turn Kelly into a reliever. He's that or nothing.

 

Agreed.

[jacksonianmarch]

Unfortunately for the sox, most teams aren't open for business yet. The need for another starter has been there since day 1.

[cp176]

Unfortunately for the sox, most teams aren't open for business yet. The need for another starter has been there since day 1.

 

The longer the hold off by winning the better. I would hate to see them give anything for a rental of an old arm. They aren't in panic mode and probably will not be. I still believe that a deal will be made eventually but I think that it will be a big one when it gets done.

[Dojji]

I still see them adding to the bottom of their rotation rather than the top. The simple fact is that all we need is a guy to fill out the bottom of the rotation. Fans being fans we all want the big sexy trade, but it's not what we need right now. going for luxury when all we need is consistency is a good way to overcommit your resources and make contention harder in the next year and the year after that.

 

We already have a lot of dead money on the payroll right now. One thing we absolutely cannot endure right now is taking a big risk and having it flop. And the top of our rotation while not excellent is very durable, which with our offense is enough. That reduces the upside of going for another top starter, since we already have some high quality arms.

 

What we need right now is low risk relatively low cost steady production in the last rotation spot, and that's all we need.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Dojji

[S5Dewey]

Unfortunately I dont agree. I think out of Bogey betts and JBJ, JBJ is the first to go if another team demands one. Not because hes the worst one, just that I feel the sox value the other two Bs first. Swihart is also another candidate to be in a trade. I would watch for either of those two, or both depending whos coming back, to go if we were to acquire a TOTR young controlled starter...and MiLB prospects.

I hope we could do it without having to give up one of our kids on the mlb roster, but I doubt we can get what we want without doing just that.

If we go get a rich hill type then i dont think we have to worry about it.

 

I don't think trading JBJ is even a concern. Remember, DD tried to land him when he was in Detroit. Now that he's got him I don't see him trading him away, especially now that he's twice the player he was when DD wanted him before!

The other reason I don't think he's tradeable is something touched on in the last sentence of ^^^ post. The only players who could be considered a 'fair trade' for any of the three B's would be a genuine TOR ACE pitcher and nobody is going to give one of those up.

 

IMO the best we can hope for is to find someone who's desperate enough for a catcher that they're willing to part with a .500-ish pitcher, a Ryan Dempster type pitcher, in exchange for Swihart. Or possibly a true #2-#3 in exchange for Swihart and one of our three blue-chip prospects.

[Spudboy]

He is struggling, but one thing with Hannigan - he seems to have a lot of good at bats. Makes the pitcher work for his out.

 

People overlook how valuable his AB are. I don't have stats to support my opinion but it sure seems that most of the time when Hannigan plays he see a lot of pitches.

[Dojji]

Looking back the guy we should have signed in the offseason, if we weren't going after Wei-Yin Chen, is Miguel Gonzalez. he's exactly the kind of pitcher you need to fill out the bottom of your rotation,, and the O's just let him walk for nothing in the previous offseason. He's doing a pretty good job in the bottom of the White Sox rotation this year. If we ever shake our senseless addiction to Kelly and Buchholz this is the kind of guy we need to replace them with. Not him in particular, but that kind of low cost low risk guy.

[Slasher9]

Unfortunately I dont agree. I think out of Bogey betts and JBJ, JBJ is the first to go if another team demands one. Not because hes the worst one, just that I feel the sox value the other two Bs first. Swihart is also another candidate to be in a trade. I would watch for either of those two, or both depending whos coming back, to go if we were to acquire a TOTR young controlled starter...and MiLB prospects.

I hope we could do it without having to give up one of our kids on the mlb roster, but I doubt we can get what we want without doing just that.

If we go get a rich hill type then i dont think we have to worry about it.

 

we can get a TOTR SP without trading any of the 3 b's....

[User Name]

People overlook how valuable his AB are. I don't have stats to support my opinion but it sure seems that most of the time when Hannigan plays he see a lot of pitches.

 

4.29 P/PA would be top 25 in the league if he qualified.

[Hitch]

Unfortunately I dont agree. I think out of Bogey betts and JBJ, JBJ is the first to go if another team demands one. Not because hes the worst one, just that I feel the sox value the other two Bs first. Swihart is also another candidate to be in a trade. I would watch for either of those two, or both depending whos coming back, to go if we were to acquire a TOTR young controlled starter...and MiLB prospects.

I hope we could do it without having to give up one of our kids on the mlb roster, but I doubt we can get what we want without doing just that.

If we go get a rich hill type then i dont think we have to worry about it.

 

 

How about we just not trade any of JBJ, Bogearts or Betts and instead build the future of the franchise around 3 excellent and talented young players?

 

We have plenty of trade chips should we need to pull the plug. Getting rid of any of those 3 would be madness at this point.

[Dojji]

we can get a TOTR SP without trading any of the 3 b's....

 

I sincerely doubt it. The pitching market is bare, people who have a guy like that will want to make a desperate team pay through the nose.

[S5Dewey]

we can get a TOTR SP without trading any of the 3 b's....

 

I agree that we can, but not now. Sooner or later there's going to be a team that has a TOR pitcher but isn't going anyplace with him. They're going to be willing to part with him for one major league ready player and outstanding prospects. But that time isn't now because right now no team wants to admit that they're not going anyplace. Give it a month, maybe two, and something will develop.

 

Of course when that happens some of us will be wringing our hands about trading away prospects.

[Spudboy]

How about we just not trade any of JBJ, Bogearts or Betts and instead build the future of the franchise around 3 excellent and talented young players?

 

We have plenty of trade chips should we need to pull the plug. Getting rid of any of those 3 would be madness at this point.

 

I agree.

[User Name]

Isn't this team like in first place in the ALE and has the best record in the AL, and third best (behind Cubs-Nats) in the league?

[Jack Flap]

At least we have four SP currently whom one can feel at least somewhat confident in...the fifth spot is a garbage fire, but we have time to explore our options, both internal and external. You just pray no one else gets hurt in the meantime.

[sk7326]

At least we have four SP currently whom one can feel at least somewhat confident in...the fifth spot is a garbage fire, but we have time to explore our options, both internal and external. You just pray no one else gets hurt in the meantime.

 

I count three ... Kelly should not be starting and Rodriguez needs a few more starts to feel better.

[Hugh2]

I see an extension of JBJ/Bogaerts/Betts highly unlikely. Our time is now, this team is in now mode....I say buy Strasburg next offseason and go for a run for the next few years.

 

With some luck in several years guys like Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, and Espinoza will fill the talent pool those guys leave behind (Price aging). And with some money freed up by then you can still probably extend at least one of those guys to a monster contract and maybe trade another to replenish the system.

 

Of course a lot can happen between now and then and this assumes a lot. I think any good long term plan is NOT a concrete long term plan. You have to be able adjust accordingly with the market, your team, and your system. Like for example, lets say all of a sudden the CHW want to trade a Chris Sale for a prospect heavy package to replenish their system (highly unlikely) perhaps you reconsider holding onto an Espinoza in a situation as such.

[jacksonianmarch]

You have the goods to get a top of the rotation starter without Bradley, Betts or Bogaerts. It might hurt. At the same time, you have long term players all over the IF and in two spots of the OF. Time to cash in some prospect depth for the severe lack of pitching throughout your system. Moncada and Devers (who are both blocked), could probably get you into the mix for anyone on the market

[sk7326]

You have the goods to get a top of the rotation starter without Bradley, Betts or Bogaerts. It might hurt. At the same time, you have long term players all over the IF and in two spots of the OF. Time to cash in some prospect depth for the severe lack of pitching throughout your system. Moncada and Devers (who are both blocked), could probably get you into the mix for anyone on the market

 

We'll see ... Devers is 19 - he is not being blocked by anyone ...

 

There will be a way to get another starter - just a matter of priority. Fortunately they are winning enough to figure this out.

[Emp9]

I see an extension of JBJ/Bogaerts/Betts highly unlikely. Our time is now, this team is in now mode....I say buy Strasburg next offseason and go for a run for the next few years.

 

With some luck in several years guys like Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, and Espinoza will fill the talent pool those guys leave behind (Price aging). And with some money freed up by then you can still probably extend at least one of those guys to a monster contract and maybe trade another to replenish the system.

 

Of course a lot can happen between now and then and this assumes a lot. I think any good long term plan is NOT a concrete long term plan. You have to be able adjust accordingly with the market, your team, and your system. Like for example, lets say all of a sudden the CHW want to trade a Chris Sale for a prospect heavy package to replenish their system (highly unlikely) perhaps you reconsider holding onto an Espinoza in a situation as such.

 

I thought Strasburg was the plan too but he just signed that extension.

[sk7326]

And to be fair - I don't think Dombrowski will bat an eye at trading a 19 year old if he can get the #2 starter - especially one with 3 years of so of reasonable performance.

[Hugh2]

I thought Strasburg was the plan too but he just signed that extension.

 

I forgot about that.

[Jack Flap]

I count three ... Kelly should not be starting and Rodriguez needs a few more starts to feel better.

 

I was counting Price, Wright, Porcello, and Rodriguez, but it's fair to say we need to see a few more starts from E-Rod to really feel comfortable there.

 

You have the goods to get a top of the rotation starter without Bradley, Betts or Bogaerts. It might hurt. At the same time, you have long term players all over the IF and in two spots of the OF. Time to cash in some prospect depth for the severe lack of pitching throughout your system. Moncada and Devers (who are both blocked), could probably get you into the mix for anyone on the market

I see what you're saying here, but guys who are in the lower rungs of the minors and likely several years away (perhaps a little less for Moncada) are not "blocked" in any meaningful sense. No one knows what will happen in 2 or 3 years' time.

 

I'm not saying you don't trade those guys under any circumstance, but the opinion that they are "blocked" is not a good argument for it.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Jack Flap

[S5Dewey]

You have the goods to get a top of the rotation starter without Bradley, Betts or Bogaerts. It might hurt. At the same time, you have long term players all over the IF and in two spots of the OF. Time to cash in some prospect depth for the severe lack of pitching throughout your system. Moncada and Devers (who are both blocked), could probably get you into the mix for anyone on the market

 

Why does something this logical have to come from a Yankees fan?

[Dojji]

I count three ... Kelly should not be starting and Rodriguez needs a few more starts to feel better.

 

I agree. We have 3 rotation spots locked down and one hopefully locked down. E-Rod looked good, but nothing firm yet.

[devildavid]

I think this team is good enough to win it all with the present pitching staff. For the future, I think they need to find more dependable starters than Buchholz and Kelly, but they could get by without adding another TOTR starter. It would be nice to get one, but not essential. One more decent starter that can put the ball over the plate would help, but I believe they have enough now to give it a good run.

[mvp 78]

The present pitching staff is not good enough to win in October. Price seems to have trouble in cold weather. Wright is not tested in a playoff setting. ERod may not be healthy all year. Porcello seems to be the only stable guy in the rotation at the moment.