All things Moncada

[cp176]

Hey - I won't be giving up on this kid. Just a kid. who knows, they may even wind up moving him. He still represents the best potential baseball talent that I have seen in a Red sox uniform. Normally I would say that I can remember but I really can't remember anybody like him. Kimi once used the word Hater in reference to those who made fun of Sandoval. Not sure I totally buy that but she had a point. Anyone nastily critical of a 21 year kid is a hater. Particularly one with this much talent. He may not be ready just yet but he will be some day. I hope for our sake it is in a Red Sox uniform.

[Jack Flap]

Good call giving Yoan a breather tonight.

 

What was surprising to me was not so much that he was called up (though I wouldn't have complained if we didn't see him until next summer), but that he was virtually handed the third base job right out of the box in the midst of a playoff race. Bogaerts in 2013 (the comparison Farrell keeps using) actually played sparingly down the stretch and didn't crack the regular lineup until the ALCS; even Benintendi mostly rode the bench in his first week or so, and that's when the mighty Bryce Brentz was our other LF.

 

For all of the talk early in the season about playing time having to be earned on this club, it's almost like Farrell and Dombrowski got a little star-struck with this kid and his great tools and jumped ahead of themselves...I don't think just because Shaw has sucked for the last 2-3 months you have to just hand the starting job to a 21 year-old who hasn't proven anything yet above Double-A (and whose K rate was a warning sign even at that level). I think Moncada is going to be a big-time player for this team in the pretty near future, but right this moment it's time to pump the brakes just a little.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Jack Flap

[oldtimer]

Good call giving Yoan a breather tonight.

 

What was surprising to me was not so much that he was called up (though I wouldn't have complained if we didn't see him until next summer), but that he was virtually handed the third base job right out of the box in the midst of a playoff race. Bogaerts in 2013 (the comparison Farrell keeps using) actually played sparingly down the stretch and didn't crack the regular lineup until the ALCS; even Benintendi mostly rode the bench in his first week or so, and that's when the mighty Bryce Brentz was our other LF.

 

For all of the talk early in the season about playing time having to be earned on this club, it's almost like Farrell and Dombrowski got a little star-struck with this kid and his great tools and jumped ahead of themselves...I don't think just because Shaw has sucked for the last 2-3 months you have to just hand the starting job to a 21 year-old who hasn't proven anything yet above Double-A (and whose K rate was a warning sign even at that level). I think Moncada is going to be a big-time player for this team in the pretty near future, but right this moment it's time to pump the brakes just a little.

 

Pretty sad showing for him last night. He has the talent but he still has rough edges that may indeed keep him off the playoff roster should we make it that far.

[moonslav59]

Shaw had that big game, just before being benched. I'm not one to over-react on a one game sample size, but I thought it was strange that Moncada was pretty much handed the FT job (or at least a platoon vs RHPs) right out of the box.

 

I'm waiting for the "we're going to bruise his [Moncada's] fragile ego" arguments to begin.

[Bellhorn04]

Shaw had that big game, just before being benched. I'm not one to over-react on a one game sample size, but I thought it was strange that Moncada was pretty much handed the FT job (or at least a platoon vs RHPs) right out of the box.

 

I'm waiting for the "we're going to bruise his [Moncada's] fragile ego" arguments to begin.

 

I don't know about brusing his ego, but 7 straight K's and 10 in his first 18 PA's quickly raises the question of whether he should be here.

[mvp 78]

Wow. That's is sports-fan logic at its best!

 

Uh, wut?

[mvp 78]

Good call giving Yoan a breather tonight.

 

What was surprising to me was not so much that he was called up (though I wouldn't have complained if we didn't see him until next summer), but that he was virtually handed the third base job right out of the box in the midst of a playoff race. Bogaerts in 2013 (the comparison Farrell keeps using) actually played sparingly down the stretch and didn't crack the regular lineup until the ALCS; even Benintendi mostly rode the bench in his first week or so, and that's when the mighty Bryce Brentz was our other LF.

 

For all of the talk early in the season about playing time having to be earned on this club, it's almost like Farrell and Dombrowski got a little star-struck with this kid and his great tools and jumped ahead of themselves...I don't think just because Shaw has sucked for the last 2-3 months you have to just hand the starting job to a 21 year-old who hasn't proven anything yet above Double-A (and whose K rate was a warning sign even at that level). I think Moncada is going to be a big-time player for this team in the pretty near future, but right this moment it's time to pump the brakes just a little.

 

If Shaw wasn't in a free fall and Hill provided what was expected, Moncada would be playing sparingly. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Moncada was brought up because they needed him.

[mvp 78]

Shaw had that big game, just before being benched. I'm not one to over-react on a one game sample size, but I thought it was strange that Moncada was pretty much handed the FT job (or at least a platoon vs RHPs) right out of the box.

 

I'm waiting for the "we're going to bruise his [Moncada's] fragile ego" arguments to begin.

 

I think the bruised ego rationale is better suited to young pitchers rather than young hitters. Hitters are used to failing 70% of the time. He just needs to be given him time to adjust.

[moonslav59]

I don't know about brusing his ego, but 7 straight K's and 10 in his first 18 PA's quickly raises the question of whether he should be here.

 

I understand that and don't disagree... maybe not shouldn't be here, but more like shouldn't be handed the job outright on day two.

[cp176]

We haven't seen nor have we heard anything about Moncada having any negative attitude traits. Not a whisper. He likes twinkles that is about it. I hope he does have an ego but fear of bruising it I don't think needs to be any concern. He seems to be a really good kid and shining toward anything else is sad.

[moonslav59]

If Shaw wasn't in a free fall and Hill provided what was expected, Moncada would be playing sparingly. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Moncada was brought up because they needed him.

 

Hill has not really provided what was expected. He was expected to be a capable platoon with Shaw and hit lefties close to what he had over his career (.761).

 

I guess .716 isn't that far off, but it's less and he's in a hitter's park now.

 

His UZR/150 at MIL was -1.0. It's -3.7 here.

[mvp 78]

Hill has not really provided what was expected. He was expected to be a capable platoon with Shaw and hit lefties close to what he had over his career (.761).

 

I guess .716 isn't that far off, but it's less and he's in a hitter's park now.

 

His UZR/150 at MIL was -1.0. It's -3.7 here.

 

I didn't say he did provide what was expected. My sentence was "if... Hill provided what was expected, Moncada would be playing sparingly." Moncada isn't playing sparingly. Therefore, Hill isn't providing what was expected.

[Wade Boggs]

I don't know about brusing his ego, but 7 straight K's and 10 in his first 18 PA's quickly raises the question of whether he should be here.

 

 

Moncada, will sit tonight and with the day off on Thursday get two days to clear his head. Shaw will play 3rd tonight. He needs a mental break at the moment. That is what Farrell said yesterday. He could and has the right to change his mind though.

[bosoxmal]

Once the young man learns when to swing and when not to swing, I think he'll be fine. I doubt if he aseen as much varitey each time at bat as he has seen in the "Bigs". He's not ready for the regular day to day lineup. He'll get enough exposure, so we'll be watching the progress. No hurry. At some point in the future we'll (well, you anyway) will see a lineup that includes Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts,'s, Binnintendi, Vazquea, Bradley and Moncada. That will be something to see!

[moonslav59]

I didn't say he did provide what was expected. My sentence was "if... Hill provided what was expected, Moncada would be playing sparingly." Moncada isn't playing sparingly. Therefore, Hill isn't providing what was expected.

 

Gotcha.

 

I actually thought Moncada was going to be called up just to PR, PH and maybe play 3b or 2B very "sparingly".

[S5Dewey]

Once the young man learns when to swing and when not to swing, I think he'll be fine. I doubt if he aseen as much varitey each time at bat as he has seen in the "Bigs". He's not ready for the regular day to day lineup. He'll get enough exposure, so we'll be watching the progress. No hurry. At some point in the future we'll (well, you anyway) will see a lineup that includes Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts,'s, Binnintendi, Vazquea, Bradley and Moncada. That will be something to see!

 

I agree completely with this, point by point.

One of the biggest differences between AA (I was going to say AAA but it doesn't apply) is the quality of the pitching. There's a BIG difference between AA and MLB pitching and there's going to be an adjustment period when pitchers figure him out and he learns how to hit ML pitching.

 

Were I a GM of an opposing team I'd be quaking in my boots looking at what the Sox will be able to put on the field in the immediate future. Especially now that the pitching staff is gelling. And WE (that includes you, mal) are going to be around to watch it. You ain't getting out of this until the Sox win at least one more WS!

 

However, as good as this team looks to be in the future I can't help but think how much better they could be if they didn't have those two contracts in Pawtucket hanging around their necks. If they had that kind of money to spend on pitching they'd be SCARY good.

[Hugh2]

The team was justified and made the right move giving Moncada a shot, however if he proves he's not ready then he's not ready. I wouldn't NOT start him again but at this point you at least have to sit him for the next game or two.

 

I still think worse case scenario he makes the team better as a pinch runner.

[sk7326]

If Shaw wasn't in a free fall and Hill provided what was expected, Moncada would be playing sparingly. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Moncada was brought up because they needed him.

 

They didn't need him really. Yes, 3B sucked - and it would be awesome if Moncada could fix it. It is worth a look. But - if Benintendi gets back (and there is some question there), the Red Sox are average at worst offensively in 7 of the 8 regular positions. They could live with "solid defense, occasionally dangerous" at 3B.

 

I am happy to get a look at Moncada - but we know command and breaking stuff is a different level at the show - and so a guy who had significant contact problems as Double-A was a high risk of flailing at the big league level. From his minor league stats - it seems like approach on some level is sound - he does walk quite a bit. But the craft has to catch up to the athleticism - and that's cool, he's still a baby relatively - and it is probably not going to happen during the season. I will be delighted to be proven wrong here.

[sk7326]

I agree completely with this, point by point.

One of the biggest differences between AA (I was going to say AAA but it doesn't apply) is the quality of the pitching. There's a BIG difference between AA and MLB pitching and there's going to be an adjustment period when pitchers figure him out and he learns how to hit ML pitching.

 

Were I a GM of an opposing team I'd be quaking in my boots looking at what the Sox will be able to put on the field in the immediate future. Especially now that the pitching staff is gelling. And WE (that includes you, mal) are going to be around to watch it. You ain't getting out of this until the Sox win at least one more WS!

 

However, as good as this team looks to be in the future I can't help but think how much better they could be if they didn't have those two contracts in Pawtucket hanging around their necks. If they had that kind of money to spend on pitching they'd be SCARY good.

 

They DO have that kind of money (they ALWAYS have that kind of money) ... it is whether Steel Drivin John Henry wants to.

[moonslav59]

However, as good as this team looks to be in the future I can't help but think how much better they could be if they didn't have those two contracts in Pawtucket hanging around their necks. If they had that kind of money to spend on pitching they'd be SCARY good.

 

It might soon be three with Pablo lobbying for the Pawtucket Country Club membership.

 

(Luxury Tax dollars)

 

$19.5M Pablo (actually $19.3M x 3 counting $5M option buyout)

$10.4M Castillo (actually $11.5M x 4 left)

$6.2M Craig (actually $12M x 1 left counting buying out 2018's option)

 

That's over $40M that would have counted on the luxury tax budget and about $43M per year for 1 year, $30M for the next 2 years and then $13.5M for Castillo's last year-- 2020.)

[Slasher9]

i was surprised he was handed the FT job so quickly (day 2). i was surprised how awful he looks against the Curve. let the kid sit the bench / work with chill dawg / PR for a week or so and see where we are at. Shaw had a nice little rest and as we have seen can be capable on both sides of the ball. im ok if i never see hill in a game again.....

[mvp 78]

However, as good as this team looks to be in the future I can't help but think how much better they could be if they didn't have those two contracts in Pawtucket hanging around their necks. If they had that kind of money to spend on pitching they'd be SCARY good.

 

It might soon be three with Pablo lobbying for the Pawtucket Country Club membership.

 

(Luxury Tax dollars)

 

$19.5M Pablo (actually $19.3M x 3 counting $5M option buyout)

$10.4M Castillo (actually $11.5M x 4 left)

$6.2M Craig (actually $12M x 1 left counting buying out 2018's option)

 

That's over $40M that would have counted on the luxury tax budget and about $43M per year for 1 year, $30M for the next 2 years and then $13.5M for Castillo's last year-- 2020.)

 

I thought there was no way to get Pablo there due to service time issues?

[S5Dewey]

They DO have that kind of money (they ALWAYS have that kind of money) ... it is whether Steel Drivin John Henry wants to.

 

Grrr.. and just when i was going to walk away from my computer this morning I see THIS! One of my pet peeves!

 

While I agree that JH probably DOES have the money, it's a matter of whether he wants to spend it, and not spending it can certainly be justified.

 

For us baseball is fun, but for JH it's foremost a business. I have no information about the inner workings of the finances of a baseball team but in this day and age I'd BET that the Red Sox bean counters know how much money making the playoffs is worth as well as how much money every win IN the playoffs is worth to the team. And at the end of the day for JH and the other owners it's all about the money. While I'd like it if they did this, I can't fault them for not drawing from one business to support another, especially when that "other" one falls somewhere between a business and a hobby. From a business perspective I also can't fault JH for 'taking the money and running' rather than pour more money into a team that's already making money... if they are.

 

Professional sports franchises are an "odd duck" in that nearly all of them are privately owned and therefore the fans have no idea how much money the franchises make or lose. We can only speculate, but based on what I see at the parks combined with the tv rights and all the advertising and when I play that against the contracts that are being given out it appears that the Red Sox are hemorrhaging money. Whether or not JH and his bean counters think it's prudent to spend more money in an effort to make more money is something only JH can decide.

[mvp 78]

From a business perspective I also can't fault JH for 'taking the money and running' rather than pour more money into a team that's already making money... if they are.

 

Sports teams are not run like businesses. They are run like investments. The true value of the team is not in the day to day revenue, but the overall gain of the asset. If the Sox were sold today, they'd get about $2.5B. The Sox were purchased for $660M less than 15 years ago.

[sk7326]

Grrr.. and just when i was going to walk away from my computer this morning I see THIS! One of my pet peeves!

 

While I agree that JH probably DOES have the money, it's a matter of whether he wants to spend it, and not spending it can certainly be justified.

 

For us baseball is fun, but for JH it's foremost a business. I have no information about the inner workings of the finances of a baseball team but in this day and age I'd BET that the Red Sox bean counters know how much money making the playoffs is worth as well as how much money every win IN the playoffs is worth to the team. And at the end of the day for JH and the other owners it's all about the money. While I'd like it if they did this, I can't fault them for not drawing from one business to support another, especially when that "other" one falls somewhere between a business and a hobby. From a business perspective I also can't fault JH for 'taking the money and running' rather than pour more money into a team that's already making money... if they are.

 

Professional sports franchises are an "odd duck" in that nearly all of them are privately owned and therefore the fans have no idea how much money the franchises make or lose. We can only speculate, but based on what I see at the parks combined with the tv rights and all the advertising and when I play that against the contracts that are being given out it appears that the Red Sox are hemorrhaging money. Whether or not JH and his bean counters think it's prudent to spend more money in an effort to make more money is something only JH can decide.

 

The local television money is the best estimator of relative position - the Red Sox is huh-yooge. The Red Sox are rolling in it - and it's perfectly nice for ownership to want to make money. Nobody is asking them to make a stupid business decision. But the contracts are not shackling them from making a decision - the money is there. The counterfactual moon poses "imagine if we did not have albatross contracts - how much more money would we have" is a little silly. If we did not have those contracts, maybe the Sox would spend more, maybe it would go into the owners pockets. I don't think those contracts are any real impediment - aside from an impediment to ego.

[a700hitter]

Moncada is not yet as polished a hitter as Benintendi. Benintendi has a knack to be able to adjust during his ABs and to adjust and react to each pitch.

[Slasher9]

The local television money is the best estimator of relative position - the Red Sox is huh-yooge. The Red Sox are rolling in it - and it's perfectly nice for ownership to want to make money. Nobody is asking them to make a stupid business decision. But the contracts are not shackling them from making a decision - the money is there. The counterfactual moon poses "imagine if we did not have albatross contracts - how much more money would we have" is a little silly. If we did not have those contracts, maybe the Sox would spend more, maybe it would go into the owners pockets. I don't think those contracts are any real impediment - aside from an impediment to ego.

the Sox usually spend close to the spending cap/LT limit. this year we went over. i dont expect that to happen again next year as they will certainly want to "reset" the penalty. to think that we have an "unlimited budget" us incorrect. the Red Sox have a budget and most of the time do not exceed that number (exception being this year as pointed out). if we didnt have "those contracts" that $$ would most certainly have been spent (up to the LT limit) but probably not over it. those that say there is no budget are being naive.....

[Slasher9]

Moncada is not yet as polished a hitter as Benintendi. Benintendi has a knack to be able to adjust during his ABs and to adjust and react to each pitch.

 

dont you usually rail against people using sss?

[a700hitter]

dont you usually rail against people using sss?

Did I quote a stat?

[FredLynn]

The team was justified and made the right move giving Moncada a shot, however if he proves he's not ready then he's not ready. I wouldn't NOT start him again but at this point you at least have to sit him for the next game or two.

 

I still think worse case scenario he makes the team better as a pinch runner.

 

I disagree. He struck out over 30% of the time in his roughly 200 PAs in AA ball. Thats not good. Meanwhile, Shaw has been good vs RHP and Hill has been decent vs LHP. I think Moncada should not have been given the 3B job so soon. Rather, a Shaw/Hill platoon was best, using Moncada as an occasional pinch hitter or pinch runner. He will be fine, but he badly needs plate discipline.n