All things Moncada

[sk7326]

Yeah he has not hit much (or well) right handed - and he has not made a ton of contact ... but Farrell has shown some ability to bring these guys in without overwhelming them.

[moonslav59]

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=660162#/splits/R/hitting/2016/MINORS

 

Not sure he has hit "well enough" against lefties in 2016.

 

I see....

 

.691 in AA

.797 in A+

 

That's better than Shaw recently and when he was in the minors.

 

Not great, but maybe "good enough".

[Hugh2]

Last off season was the right time to do it.

 

We're never trading Pedey, so 2B is just about as blocked as any position on any team in MLB can possibly be.

 

We keep being forced to play people "out of position" due to lack of insight and forethought. We should prepare ourselves for a great prospect to rise quicker than we anticipate or some major injury or falling off a cliff by a regular occurs. Here are some recent instances of lack of forethought by Sox management on preparing players for positional chances (some worked out okay- others did not):

 

Swihart in LF: It was obvious he would need to play other positions with the Sox once vaz got healthy, especially if he hit like he was projected to do. We knew e had potential weaknesses at LF, 3B and 1B. he should have been given a few reps there in the minors over the last year or two. (Note: I said this 2 years ago.)

 

Betts in the OF: he should have been given OF reps long before he did. He ended up adjusting amazingly well, but what if he didn't? Everybody knew he'd never play 2B in Boston unless Pedey got hurt.

 

HanRam at 1B. They should have given him a 1Bman's mitt last summer, when we were out of it.

 

Bogaerts at 3B: he played 10 games at 3B in the minors, then was playing 3B in the playoffs for us! Inexcusable. (Note: this is not hindsight bitching on my part, I was calling for him to be at 3B that whole minor league seaons.)

 

Now, it's Moncada.

 

I'd also start playing Benintendi in LF at least 30-40% of the games, so he gets used to it.

 

 

No last offseason was not the time to do it, because you don't change a top prospects decision based on what the team needs might be in 1-3 years. You make those decisions when a guy is MLB ready.

[sk7326]

I see....

 

.691 in AA

.797 in A+

 

That's better than Shaw recently and when he was in the minors.

 

Not great, but maybe "good enough".

 

struck out in nearly half of his trips to the plate on that side.

[moonslav59]

No last offseason was not the time to do it, because you don't change a top prospects decision based on what the team needs might be in 1-3 years. You make those decisions when a guy is MLB ready.

 

So, you're fine with throwing these guys out there at the ML level with just 10 games at their new position?

 

Something might need to change. Either we might have to move their positions earlier, or we keep them on the farm longer. We might be playing with fire. We're lucky we didn't get burned.

[Spudboy]

Wow.

 

So much drama over one prospect coming up.

 

It's a f***ing game.

[moonslav59]

struck out in nearly half of his trips to the plate on that side.

 

17 out of 77 PAs in A+ is not half, but he did in AA (19/43)

 

Total: 36/120 or 30% .

[moonslav59]

Wow.

 

So much drama over one prospect coming up.

 

It's a f***ing game.

 

There was more "drama" when the called up Beni "out of desperation" we were told.

[sk7326]

17 out of 77 PAs in A+ is not half, but he did in AA (19/43)

 

Total: 36/120 or 30% .

 

I was only looking at AA ... and 30% is extremely high. Now scouts and people smarter than me can suss out whether that is approach (see Napoli, Dunn) or flat not hitting certain kinds of pitches.

 

This does not temper my excitement at the promotion - baseball is fun, and this is fun. I am grateful for things like Bogaerts joining the lineup in 2013, Benintendi this year, Clay throwing a no-no out of nowhere in 2007 ... makes the dog days pass easier.

[Hugh2]

So, you're fine with throwing these guys out there at the ML level with just 10 games at their new position?

 

Something might need to change. Either we might have to move their positions earlier, or we keep them on the farm longer. We might be playing with fire. We're lucky we didn't get burned.

 

Yes

 

I'm a thousand times more ok with it than saying "hey player xyz might not be able to play position w in 2 years so we should move him here now because that might be a hole in a year or two"

 

No team in baseball operates that way. If 1/2 the teams out there conducted business like that I'd say you have a point but the fact that all 30 teams do not should tell us something right there.

[User Name]

There was more "drama" when the called up Beni "out of desperation" we were told.

 

Because that's exactly what happened. Otherwise, they would not have pulled their trousers down for Beltran. But then again, common sense need not apply.

[Spudboy]

lol

[moonslav59]

Yes

 

 

No team in baseball operates that way. If 1/2 the teams out there conducted business like that I'd say you have a point but the fact that all 30 teams do not should tell us something right there.

 

When have I come even close to saying that's what we should do?

 

You guys are continually misrepresenting what I said and believe.

 

I did call for Bogey's position change to 3B, and I wasn't the only one. I read what scouts were saying, and I fell for it. i was wrong and admitted it often. What I felt about Bogey was not something systemic in my beliefs on prospect protocol. I had mentioned that even if Bogey was not going to be converted to 3B, it wouldn't hurt to give him some reps at 3B "just in case". It all ended up working out fine in 2013, and Bogey has turned into a fine SS.

 

Moncada's case is completely different. There were reports he wasn't advancing at 2B and others that said he was doing great there. His bat clearly looked like he was on a fast track to ML readiness. All I said was we should THINK ABOUT starting to GIVE HIM SOME REPS at 3B SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, and you'd have thunk I invented a whole new system. I never said move him to 3B now, but many acted as though I did.

 

I was shouted at that I didn't "undertsand protocol" and when the Sox started giving him reps at 3B 2 weeks after I posted my suggestion, user still said I was wrong.

 

Teams seldom speed up timetables due to quicker-than-expected adjustments by unique players or out of desperation due to an injury or sudden struggle from a ML player, but it's not some fantasy.

 

Moncada was looking so awesome at the plate (and I don't fear the K like some do) that I felt an adjustment might be called for.

 

User and others said you don't change a player's level and position within the same season. That was the protocol and that's what works. Putting too much on a kid's plate is not what teams do.

 

Apparently the Sox either put too much on his plate or they are acting out of desperation and taking a gamble, or protocol is not etched in stone for every player (or a combination of the 3). Someone tell me, if I'm missing a fourth option.

 

.

[moonslav59]

I'm a thousand times more ok with it than saying "hey player xyz might not be able to play position within 2 years so we should move him here now because that might be a hole in a year or two"

 

I am too. I don't know who was saying move Moncada to 3B two years ago.

[Hugh2]

I'm a thousand times more ok with it than saying "hey player xyz might not be able to play position within 2 years so we should move him here now because that might be a hole in a year or two"

 

I am too. I don't know who was saying move Moncada to 3B two years ago.

 

No this was based on the fact that earlier in the year most would not have penciled him into being brought up this early. The Sox are being overly aggressive as DD has a reputation of doing.

 

Our position was, if the team thought he was ready or close to ready it makes sense to move them and give them a little bit of time at a new position. There is a stark difference between that and developing a guy at a new position.

 

And that is not the same thing as "giving him a few innings over at another position because he might move there one day" that is something else organizations just don't ever do with a guy unless they feel his ultimate role is a utility profile.

[Hugh2]

When have I come even close to saying that's what we should do?

 

You guys are continually misrepresenting what I said and believe.

 

I did call for Bogey's position change to 3B, and I wasn't the only one. I read what scouts were saying, and I fell for it. i was wrong and admitted it often. What I felt about Bogey was not something systemic in my beliefs on prospect protocol. I had mentioned that even if Bogey was not going to be converted to 3B, it wouldn't hurt to give him some reps at 3B "just in case". It all ended up working out fine in 2013, and Bogey has turned into a fine SS.

 

Moncada's case is completely different. There were reports he wasn't advancing at 2B and others that said he was doing great there. His bat clearly looked like he was on a fast track to ML readiness. All I said was we should THINK ABOUT starting to GIVE HIM SOME REPS at 3B SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, and you'd have thunk I invented a whole new system. I never said move him to 3B now, but many acted as though I did.

 

I was shouted at that I didn't "undertsand protocol" and when the Sox started giving him reps at 3B 2 weeks after I posted my suggestion, user still said I was wrong.

 

Teams seldom speed up timetables due to quicker-than-expected adjustments by unique players or out of desperation due to an injury or sudden struggle from a ML player, but it's not some fantasy.

 

Moncada was looking so awesome at the plate (and I don't fear the K like some do) that I felt an adjustment might be called for.

 

User and others said you don't change a player's level and position within the same season. That was the protocol and that's what works. Putting too much on a kid's plate is not what teams do.

 

Apparently the Sox either put too much on his plate or they are acting out of desperation and taking a gamble, or protocol is not etched in stone for every player (or a combination of the 3). Someone tell me, if I'm missing a fourth option.

 

.

 

From what I remember Users main point was the same as mine. You don't develop a guy at a position he might or plausibly could switch to down the road.

 

FWIW I don't think the team ever planned on Bogaerts playing 3B long term when they put him there in 2013. I'd be willing to bet the plan was to move him back to SS all along and they just threw him in there because they thought he was a better option than WMB and he was. But again, they developed him where they thought he played best at SS...which is exactly what they did with Moncada. They are giving him reps at 3B for a few weeks because they thought he was ready and thought that's where he would fit in this year. That is exactly what me and user have been saying, you switch a guy when he's ready and there is a need elsewhere just as they've done with Betts, Bogey, and Benintendi.

[vjcsmoke]

Moncada is gonna be a stud guys! Why the doom and gloom? This is an exciting callup!

It's the September cup of coffee.

If he's not ready at least he got a taste.

 

But if Moncada IS ready for the bigs, he's gonna make a major boost for us down the homestretch, the way Bogaerts and Ellsbury did back in the day!

[moonslav59]

Moncada is gonna be a stud guys! Why the doom and gloom? This is an exciting callup!

It's the September cup of coffee.

If he's not ready at least he got a taste.

 

But if Moncada IS ready for the bigs, he's gonna make a major boost for us down the homestretch, the way Bogaerts and Ellsbury did back in the day!

 

I'm super pumped up on Yoan.

 

I'm worried about his defense, but his offense should counter that and then some.

[southpaw777]

Saw him make a couple diving grabs. Some issues with ground balls, but ones in the air seem easier for him right now. The game is going to be a lot faster so I would bring him up and let him sit on the bench for a game to watch, listen and learn. Then play him sat or sunday.

[southpaw777]

Wonder what number he will wear...72 I say

[moonslav59]

I'll guess 42.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I'll guess 42.

 

Jackie Robinson says hello 😉

[Oscars]

Shaw's defence hasn't been great at 3rd, so it's unlikely Moncada will be a down grade .

[moonslav59]

oops

 

[moonslav59]

Shaw's defence hasn't been great at 3rd, so it's unlikely Moncada will be a down grade .

 

He's been about average. Hill is a plus, but your point is well taken. Moncada would have to be really bad to make a big difference.

[southpaw777]

oops

 

 

Haha...big oops.

Hes wearing 11 for Portland. Not that that means anything. Theyll give him a high number for sure.

 

Do you think they will play him right off or let him sit for a game first?

[SoxnCycles]

Haha...big oops.

Hes wearing 11 for Portland. Not that that means anything. Theyll give him a high number for sure.

 

Do you think they will play him right off or let him sit for a game first?

 

Triggs is a righty. I bet he's in there tonight.

[Emp9]

Triggs is a righty. I bet he's in there tonight.

 

Fri: Triggs RH'd, Sat: TBD, Sun: Graveman RH'd

[Hugh2]

Without looking anything up I feel like Farrell always makes guys sit their first day up. It would make sense to start him, it's on the west coast away from Boston at 10 PM, he's had a day to travel and they're facing a right hander.

 

Watch Farrell sit him tonight, start him against a LHP tomorrow and then bench him against a RHP on Sunday. Ok probably not....but maybe???

[moonslav59]

Without looking anything up I feel like Farrell always makes guys sit their first day up. It would make sense to start him, it's on the west coast away from Boston at 10 PM, he's had a day to travel and they're facing a right hander.

 

Watch Farrell sit him tonight, start him against a LHP tomorrow and then bench him against a RHP on Sunday. Ok probably not....but maybe???

 

Maybe he pinch hits or pinch runs him tonight and tomorrow night, and he gets his first start on Sunday.