All things Moncada

[Spudboy]

Neither is Moncada.

 

Oh. How do you figure that?

[Spudboy]

You're seriously overthinking the analogy at this point a700, the overall point is that we have seen nothing from Moncada that will allow us to judge anything about his long term success or lack thereof.

 

Then why all the jizzfest about his signing and one year of pro ball?

[a700hitter]

You're seriously overthinking the analogy at this point a700, the overall point is that we have seen nothing from Moncada that will allow us to judge anything about his long term success or lack thereof.

I am not the one to bring up the analogy, which is not a good one at all. I don't dispute your premise at all, but the Mays case is not analogous. Just clarifying the history.

[Dojji]

Then why all the jizzfest about his signing and one year of pro ball?

 

Because potential. Do you need another reason?

[User Name]

I don't get the whining or the sanctifying of the kid. He's a great prospect, but he's not the second coming of Mike Schmidt or Brandon Wood. Chillax people.

[SoxHop]

Dave Roberts had just a little more experience methinks than Moncada. Putting someone with raw speed on the bases who has not learned how to play at the ml level is a recipe for disaster. Unfair to the kid.

 

That's what I was thinking when they put him in. I forget the exact situation, but it was a close game and we really could have used the run.

 

He already looked shell shocked being up in the majors. Why put the pressure on him like that. Heck, a seasoned vet would feel pressure to do something in that situation.

 

Moncada came up and blew it. It's not like everyone in the world hasn't had a chance to prove themselves, blew it, it snowballed out of control, and walked away saying "damn, I'm better than that".

 

What we saw from him so far means very little I believe. He got a good look at a MLB curve, and now knows a little more about himself than he did before.

[Jack Flap]

Strange for the team to call him up and virtually gift him the 3B job, then yank it back after a really bad small-sample look.

 

Regardless, nothing that's happened in his 7 games and 19 plate appearances ought to sway anyone's opinion one way or the other. He is still raw and needs more time in the minors - opinions which were widespread at the time of his call-up.

[sk7326]

Strange for the team to call him up and virtually gift him the 3B job, then yank it back after a really bad small-sample look.

 

Regardless, nothing that's happened in his 7 games and 19 plate appearances ought to sway anyone's opinion one way or the other. He is still raw and needs more time in the minors - opinions which were widespread at the time of his call-up.

 

Well it was enough to sway the opinion to the "he is too raw for the bigs" - which is totally fine. Striking out eleventy times in a row is a good indicator the time is not now. I think the Sox know there is a chance to run with the 3B job - but it is not an urgent need. If Travis Shaw is your #8 hitter, your lineup is pretty damn good.

[Maxbialystock]

Last off season was the right time to do it.

 

We're never trading Pedey, so 2B is just about as blocked as any position on any team in MLB can possibly be.

 

We keep being forced to play people "out of position" due to lack of insight and forethought. We should prepare ourselves for a great prospect to rise quicker than we anticipate or some major injury or falling off a cliff by a regular occurs. Here are some recent instances of lack of forethought by Sox management on preparing players for positional chances (some worked out okay- others did not):

 

Swihart in LF: It was obvious he would need to play other positions with the Sox once vaz got healthy, especially if he hit like he was projected to do. We knew e had potential weaknesses at LF, 3B and 1B. he should have been given a few reps there in the minors over the last year or two. (Note: I said this 2 years ago.)

 

Betts in the OF: he should have been given OF reps long before he did. He ended up adjusting amazingly well, but what if he didn't? Everybody knew he'd never play 2B in Boston unless Pedey got hurt.

 

HanRam at 1B. They should have given him a 1Bman's mitt last summer, when we were out of it.

 

Bogaerts at 3B: he played 10 games at 3B in the minors, then was playing 3B in the playoffs for us! Inexcusable. (Note: this is not hindsight bitching on my part, I was calling for him to be at 3B that whole minor league seaons.)

 

Now, it's Moncada.

 

I'd also start playing Benintendi in LF at least 30-40% of the games, so he gets used to it.

 

 

Actually, his defense at 3B wasn't all that terrible in part because he definitely has the arm to play 3B. What we have seen as of September 12, however, is that he definitely has trouble with a curve. And he may have a problem staying focused because he was picked off 1B by a mile and more recently couldn't remember how many outs there were and so kind of stayed close to 1B on a pop fly to RF with two men out.

 

I had no problem with calling Moncada up with about a month to go because the kid is really talented. It made less sense--I think I have this right, but maybe not--for Farrell to announce Moncada had the 3B job locked and that Shaw needed to work on his outfielding skills if he wanted to keep playing.

 

I think Moncada going like 1 1/2 years with no baseball at all affected him more than we thought. I still think the FO would be crazy to trade him, however. There's a reason he was thought to be the #1 prospect in MLB.

[User Name]

Farrell may have wanted to light a fire under Shaw's ass. If that was his plan, it sure as hell worked. Them neurons.

[greenwell]

Actually, his defense at 3B wasn't all that terrible in part because he definitely has the arm to play 3B. What we have seen as of September 12, however, is that he definitely has trouble with a curve. And he may have a problem staying focused because he was picked off 1B by a mile and more recently couldn't remember how many outs there were and so kind of stayed close to 1B on a pop fly to RF with two men out.

 

I had no problem with calling Moncada up with about a month to go because the kid is really talented. It made less sense--I think I have this right, but maybe not--for Farrell to announce Moncada had the 3B job locked and that Shaw needed to work on his outfielding skills if he wanted to keep playing.

 

I think Moncada going like 1 1/2 years with no baseball at all affected him more than we thought. I still think the FO would be crazy to trade him, however. There's a reason he was thought to be the #1 prospect in MLB.

 

His arm is very impressive. I can't understand why he was a second baseman, basically letting that tool go to waste.

[cp176]

You can't read. I've said countless times I recognize his talent. That ain't an issue.

 

And can you honestly say that not tagging up on a two-out fly is advanced base running? Knowing to run on contact when there are two outs and you are on first base is basic little league stuff. He needs to wake up.

 

Of course we give him time. But at some point Moncada needs to show he's paying attention during games.

 

Everybody always said that I could read pretty well. Do you think that it is some kind of big revelation that he made mistakes that didn't look very good at the time? My point is that he came up, he doesn't appear to be ready. Even the "typical" New England fan might consider that he is just a kid and probably doesn't deserve to be s*** on by you. Guess you are just into piling on the prospects.

[cp176]

I don't get the whining or the sanctifying of the kid. He's a great prospect, but he's not the second coming of Mike Schmidt or Brandon Wood. Chillax people.

 

You might be talking about me I guess. I'm not whining and I'm not sanctifying anything though. He is a great prospect - no more no less. I wouldn't like to see him traded but if that happens - oh well. Bet he would provide a very good return.

[cp176]

That's what I was thinking when they put him in. I forget the exact situation, but it was a close game and we really could have used the run.

 

He already looked shell shocked being up in the majors. Why put the pressure on him like that. Heck, a seasoned vet would feel pressure to do something in that situation.

 

Moncada came up and blew it. It's not like everyone in the world hasn't had a chance to prove themselves, blew it, it snowballed out of control, and walked away saying "damn, I'm better than that".

 

What we saw from him so far means very little I believe. He got a good look at a MLB curve, and now knows a little more about himself than he did before.

 

Agree -

[Maxbialystock]

Everybody always said that I could read pretty well. Do you think that it is some kind of big revelation that he made mistakes that didn't look very good at the time? My point is that he came up, he doesn't appear to be ready. Even the "typical" New England fan might consider that he is just a kid and probably doesn't deserve to be s*** on by you. Guess you are just into piling on the prospects.

 

You're right. I was picking on him. But when I first did it I also pointed out four things that could stymie his development--up too soon, apparently made the instant starting thirdbaseman, all the brouhaha from the press about greatest prospect in MLB, and too much money. All four could have had him believing that this MLB stuff is easy. I also said that the consecutive strikeouts were possibly the best thing that could happen to him--ditto getting picked off first. Now we can add to that not running on the two out pop to RF. I don't think any of that was unfair on my part. Someone else cited a stat, maybe valid, that it takes 1200 at bats to be ready for MLB. My guess is Moncada is well under 600, on top of which he missed 1 1/2 years of playing any kind of baseball at all.

 

About Moncada's mistakes not being revelation. Says who? Go read the early parts of this thread when everyone was drooling over Moncada and dunning Shaw or anyone else who dared play 3B in lieu of the great Moncada. He was going to be the engine driving the Sox train in the playoffs. So you better believe his trouble with the curve was a revelation.

 

Now that we have seen all of those mistakes, it's obvious he came up too soon. We saw how easily Benintendi and Betts and even Bogaerts had adjusted and forgot that Moncada missed a lot of essential repetitions. I would be dishonest if I didn't also say I myself was in favor of bringing him up if only because oaf his speed and the fact that Pawtucket was about to run out of games for him to play in. So I was wrong too. The good news is that this was just a September call-up--in the normal scheme of things, no big deal. Wait until next year.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[a700hitter]

Mad Max strikes again.

[oldtimer]

Mad Max strikes again.

 

Another opportunity with no contact made. It must be painful for the kid.

[Spudboy]

You're right. I was picking on him. But when I first did it I also pointed out four things that could stymie his development--up too soon, apparently made the instant starting thirdbaseman, all the brouhaha from the press about greatest prospect in MLB, and too much money. All four could have had him believing that this MLB stuff is easy. I also said that the consecutive strikeouts were possibly the best thing that could happen to him--ditto getting picked off first. Now we can add to that not running on the two out pop to RF. I don't think any of that was unfair on my part. Someone else cited a stat, maybe valid, that it takes 1200 at bats to be ready for MLB. My guess is Moncada is well under 600, on top of which he missed 1 1/2 years of playing any kind of baseball at all.

 

About Moncada's mistakes not being revelation. Says who? Go read the early parts of this thread when everyone was drooling over Moncada and dunning Shaw or anyone else who dared play 3B in lieu of the great Moncada. He was going to be the engine driving the Sox train in the playoffs. So you better believe his trouble with the curve was a revelation.

 

Now that we have seen all of those mistakes, it's obvious he came up too soon. We saw how easily Benintendi and Betts and even Bogaerts had adjusted and forgot that Moncada missed a lot of essential repetitions. I would be dishonest if I didn't also say I myself was in favor of bringing him up if only because oaf his speed and the fact that Pawtucket was about to run out of games for him to play in. So I was wrong too. The good news is that this was just a September call-up--in the normal scheme of things, no big deal. Wait until next year.

 

That was me quoting Terry Francona.

[illinoisredsox]

I am not the one to bring up the analogy, which is not a good one at all. I don't dispute your premise at all, but the Mays case is not analogous. Just clarifying the history.

 

You must have missed the part where I said "I'm not comparing Moncada with Mays".

 

Of course the situations are not analogous. My point was if an all-time great can struggle in his first couple weeks in the big leagues, we really do owe it to Moncada to give him a little time. Most people saw that; somehow you didn't.

[a700hitter]

You must have missed the part where I said "I'm not comparing Moncada with Mays".

 

Of course the situations are not analogous. My point was if an all-time great can struggle in his first couple weeks in the big leagues, we really do owe it to Moncada to give him a little time. Most people saw that; somehow you didn't.

You weren't comparing Moncada to Mays, but you were making a comparison with regard to the situation that they both struggled when they came to the major leagues. Even that is not an analogous situation for the reasons that I stated.

[cp176]

Should he be the featured piece in a big trade during the off season? In the past, we have kept a number of top prospects until their value has vanished. He is an unrefined prospect who has great value right now.

[Jack Flap]

Should he be the featured piece in a big trade during the off season? In the past, we have kept a number of top prospects until their value has vanished. He is an unrefined prospect who has great value right now.

 

I mean, sure, if the right deal comes along (as always), but I don't see why we'd be any more likely to trade him than we were 2 weeks ago. More likely we send him back to Pawtucket, let him hopefully mash there for a few months, and call him up sometime later in 2017.

[User Name]

You might be talking about me I guess. I'm not whining and I'm not sanctifying anything though. He is a great prospect - no more no less. I wouldn't like to see him traded but if that happens - oh well. Bet he would provide a very good return.

 

Why would I be talking about you? You're one of the few people that actually makes sense.

[Slasher9]

i get the struggles with the bat. what is disheartening to me is the baserunning flubs. pickoffs will happen so i can let that go. but not knowing how many outs there are when you come in as a pinchrunner is very much a big deal to me. he's young so he will learn from it. one thing is for certain - now is not his time. but i do believe his time will come....

[Dojji]

I think the nerves were a factor in some of his sloppy play. He's come a long way in a short time and may just need some seasoning before he can settle in.

[mvp 78]

He sucks batting right handed. Right now, he's a platoon guy at best. I hope that he can really spend a lot of time at 3b over the offseason. He's slated to play in the AZ fall league at 3b I think.

[mvp 78]

Does anyone care that Moncada was on Snapchat during the game while in the clubhouse?

[S5Dewey]

Does anyone care that Moncada was on Snapchat during the game while in the clubhouse?

 

Farrell should.

 

Will someone please take these f***ing cell phones away from these players while the games are going on??!!!!

[mvp 78]

Farrell should.

 

Will someone please take these f***ing cell phones away from these players while the games are going on??!!!!

 

I remember there being a ton of faux outrage when Pablo did it. Guess they are giving Moncada a longer leash?

[Slasher9]

how is this known? yes, i would have a problem with any player being on snapchat during a game.