Red Sox Offense 2016

[Maxbialystock]

sk7326, I kind of like that. You can have a really good year with a ruined fall, specifically, in the post-season. A ruined spring tends to make a ruined season.

[Spudboy]

I know he ain't forgoing salary. I also know he ain't getting a major league gig here. Keeping a roster spot because "well, we're paying him - he might as well show up to work" is silly. Cut him, eat the contract and get on with the rest of your life.

 

I don't know so I'll ask you.

 

If they do cut Craig, he is then a free agent, I assume. The Sox continue to pay him the remainder of his contract, yes?

 

Now if he signs with another team do the Sox remain on the hook for the remainder of his Sox contract? Or does the new team assume that obligation?

 

Does signing a minor league deal vs. major league deal make any difference?

[illinoisredsox]

I don't know so I'll ask you.

 

If they do cut Craig, he is then a free agent, I assume. The Sox continue to pay him the remainder of his contract, yes?

 

Yes

 

Now if he signs with another team do the Sox remain on the hook for the remainder of his Sox contract? Or does the new team assume that obligation?

 

Does signing a minor league deal vs. major league deal make any difference?

 

If he signs a new contract, the Sox would be on the hook for the difference between the two contracts. I think he is due $9M this year (well, 3/4 of that now) and $11M next season. If the Sox released him today, he probably could sign a deal with another team for the minimum, which is around $500K (if I'm another team that's all I would sign him for) and Boston would be on the hook for about $6.5M this year and around $10.5M next year.

 

The only saving grace is since he's not on the 40 man, he doesn't count against the luxury cap. Not sure what happens there if he signs with another team and goes on their 40 man roster.

Edited May 24, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[sk7326]

Yes

 

 

 

If he signs a new contract, the Sox would be on the hook for the difference between the two contracts. I think he is due $9M this year (well, 3/4 of that now) and $11M next season. If the Sox released him today, he probably could sign a deal with another team for the minimum, which is around $500K (if I'm another team that's all I would sign him for) and Boston would be on the hook for about $6.5M this year and around $10.5M next year.

 

The only saving grace is since he's not on the 40 man, he doesn't count against the luxury cap. Not sure what happens there if he signs with another team and goes on their 40 man roster.

 

Yeah, this. Only question I had was whether they had to waive him again - not that anybody would claim him.

[moonslav59]

Yes

 

 

 

If he signs a new contract, the Sox would be on the hook for the difference between the two contracts. I think he is due $9M this year (well, 3/4 of that now) and $11M next season. If the Sox released him today, he probably could sign a deal with another team for the minimum, which is around $500K (if I'm another team that's all I would sign him for) and Boston would be on the hook for about $6.5M this year and around $10.5M next year.

 

The only saving grace is since he's not on the 40 man, he doesn't count against the luxury cap. Not sure what happens there if he signs with another team and goes on their 40 man roster.

 

Whatever we pay the other team counts against our luxury tax. If we keep him on our team, in the minors, not on the 40-man roster, nothing counts towards the luxury tax.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure of this, but my guess is the Sox have never had hitting this good early in the season and with so many contributors at age 26 and under. 1967 had some youngsters--Tony C, Petrocelli, Reggie Smith--but they didn't hit as well as these guys (at least, so far).

 

How about the team that had Butch Hobson batting 9th?

The 1977 Sox had Rice with 39 HRs, Scott with 33, Hobson with 30, Yaz with 28, Fisk with 26, Lynn with 18, Carbo with 15 and Evans with 14. 4 guys had 96+ RBIs, 4 guys had OBPs above .370, and 6 guys with a SLG% over .489!

 

The 2003 Sox scored way more runs than even those late 70's teams.

All 9 starters has over 12 HRs and 65 RBIs. 7 guys had 19 or more HRs and 8 had 85+ RBIs. 6 guys had a SLG% above .510 and 3 over .575! Most of all, they were an OBP machine. All top 9 PA guys had an OBP above .333, 8 were over .345 and 3 were over .396.[/b]

[SinceYaz]

How about the team that had Butch Hobson batting 9th?

The 1977 Sox had Rice with 39 HRs, Scott with 33, Hobson with 30, Yaz with 28, Fisk with 26, Lynn with 18, Carbo with 15 and Evans with 14. 4 guys had 96+ RBIs, 4 guys had OBPs above .370, and 6 guys with a SLG% over .489!

 

The 2003 Sox scored way more runs than even those late 70's teams.

All 9 starters has over 12 HRs and 65 RBIs. 7 guys had 19 or more HRs and 8 had 85+ RBIs. 6 guys had a SLG% above .510 and 3 over .575! Most of all, they were an OBP machine. All top 9 PA guys had an OBP above .333, 8 were over .345 and 3 were over .396.[/b]

 

Oh you guys are taking me back!! The 2003 team was tasty, and I shared it with Dad. That was a pleasure infinitely better the next seasons and that goes without saying. I have a special place for the '77 Sox - got married that summer, introduced my new bride to New England, the Cape and Martha's Vineyard! AND THE RED SOX UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL! But those teams Max mentioned .... whew, all the way back to childhood! Dreamy, hot summers, sand lot ball all day long, or whiffle ball or watching on WBZ (was it WBZ??? I am trying to remember.) Sheeees, in three paragraphs you guys outlined a 60 year old's life with hitting highlights!

 

And then there is another good night at Fenway tonight!

[SinceYaz]

Is anybody (here) chronicling JBJ's and Xander's hitting streaks ....

 

I'll have to look.

[Palodios]

You are dreaming. He is not going to walk away from his biggest salary year. We are in for $9 million this year. if the the luxury tax costs us $2 million more but he can perform well at the MLB level, he would rebuild his trade value and we might be able to get some real value for him in the off season and maybe save some salary. Under the current approach, the Red Sox are will give him a large check for the next 2 seasons with no hope of getting any value. He is not going to walk away from $20 million.

 

The luxury tax is 30% this year, and probably 40% next year. You're looking at closer to 7 million than 2 million. If he rebuilds trade value, do you honestly see any teams giving us 7 million for him? Might as well keep him miserable in AAA.

 

I know you're skeptical, but just a few years ago we saw Ryan Dempster give up a massive contract.

[SinceYaz]

The 60's were a pitching dominated era. They had to lower the mound to address the issue. Those guys : Tony C, Rico and Reggie were pretty darn good.

 

I don't know how old you are, 700, but the Sox calling card even in the '6os was hitting not pitching. If you lived it, please forgive my forwardness.

 

I grew up with the '60s teams, they were my summer staples ... along with tarzan swings, church camp in the Berkshires, a few weeks on the Vineyard with the Grands, a week in Indiana and a car stuffed with all my siblings ....Fenway was a great place to be a few times every summer. Then I moved away to Florida in '71. Or mom and dad did and for some reason I wasn't allowed to stay in Rochester, NH by myself at 15 ....

 

Many, many good memories.

[a700hitter]

The luxury tax is 30% this year, and probably 40% next year. You're looking at closer to 7 million than 2 million. If he rebuilds trade value, do you honestly see any teams giving us 7 million for him? Might as well keep him miserable in AAA.

 

I know you're skeptical, but just a few years ago we saw Ryan Dempster give up a massive contract.

Dempster was 36 years old and had already made $90 million. Craig is 31 years old. He has made $11 million in his career with $20 million more due from the Red Sox. Again, I think you are dreaming if you think there is a possibility that he will walk away from that payday.

 

If there is no possibility of him coming up to the big club, there is no possibility of him rebuilding any value, so the Red Sox should just release him. They are just wasting his time and their time.

[a700hitter]

I don't know how old you are, 700, but the Sox calling card even in the '6os was hitting not pitching. If you lived it, please forgive my forwardness.

 

I grew up with the '60s teams, they were my summer staples ... along with tarzan swings, church camp in the Berkshires, a few weeks on the Vineyard with the Grands, a week in Indiana and a car stuffed with all my siblings ....Fenway was a great place to be a few times every summer. Then I moved away to Florida in '71. Or mom and dad did and for some reason I wasn't allowed to stay in Rochester, NH by myself at 15 ....

 

Many, many good memories.

I didn't get to Fenway until the 70's but I listened to and watched those late 60's teams. They were some bunch of hitters. I was very sad when Hawk Harrelson got traded and then when Tony C got traded a couple of seasons later. Unfortunately, they had no pitching in an era dominated by pitching. I remember pinning my hopes on Dick Ellsworth, Ray Culp, Gary Bell, Lee Stange and then later Sonny Siebert. I am still waiting for Jim Lonborg to return to 1967 form. Even though they never had enough pitching to compete, they were exciting to watch. Yes, lots of memories.

[sk7326]

The luxury tax is 30% this year, and probably 40% next year. You're looking at closer to 7 million than 2 million. If he rebuilds trade value, do you honestly see any teams giving us 7 million for him? Might as well keep him miserable in AAA.

 

I know you're skeptical, but just a few years ago we saw Ryan Dempster give up a massive contract.

 

Why? If he's not seeing the bigs this year (and since Swihart jumped over him and undoubtedly if he can Benintendi will), he is just a waste of a roster spot. Sunk cost - no point worrying about the money.

[illinoisredsox]

Why? If he's not seeing the bigs this year (and since Swihart jumped over him and undoubtedly if he can Benintendi will), he is just a waste of a roster spot. Sunk cost - no point worrying about the money.

 

As has been alluded to, there are between 6 and 7 million additional reasons why releasing him would be a luxury. That's money that could be used for more productive purposes. For example, I think Bogaerts is eligible for arbitration after this season. If so, he's going to get a rather substantial raise. I think I'd rather spend some of those $ on Xander rather than making a luxury tax payment.

 

Right now, Craig's played 6 games for Pawtucket and has spent a good portion of the year on the DL. He's not blocking anyone at the moment. I don't think the FO cares whether he plays another inning this year or next year. The only way he leaves is if they can swap the contract for somebody else's bad contract.

[Slasher9]

Why? If he's not seeing the bigs this year (and since Swihart jumped over him and undoubtedly if he can Benintendi will), he is just a waste of a roster spot. Sunk cost - no point worrying about the money.

 

i do not believe Red Sox FO will allow us to go over the Luxury Tax limit 2 years in a row. they will want to reset it in 2017.

[Maxbialystock]

How about the team that had Butch Hobson batting 9th?

The 1977 Sox had Rice with 39 HRs, Scott with 33, Hobson with 30, Yaz with 28, Fisk with 26, Lynn with 18, Carbo with 15 and Evans with 14. 4 guys had 96+ RBIs, 4 guys had OBPs above .370, and 6 guys with a SLG% over .489!

 

The 2003 Sox scored way more runs than even those late 70's teams.

All 9 starters has over 12 HRs and 65 RBIs. 7 guys had 19 or more HRs and 8 had 85+ RBIs. 6 guys had a SLG% above .510 and 3 over .575! Most of all, they were an OBP machine. All top 9 PA guys had an OBP above .333, 8 were over .345 and 3 were over .396.[/b]

 

This bunch, the 2016 team, is so far way better--5.86 runs/game vs. 5.33; .844 OPS vs. .810; but, mostly importantly, this team leads the AL in runs scored by bunch. The 1977 team scored fewer runs than the Twins.

 

Plus this team I suspect is younger, which was my other point. Five (Betts, Bogaerts, Shaw, JBJ, and Vazquez) regulars are 26 or younger.

 

Let me hasten to add that "so far" is a key phrase. The season is young, and most hitters find it hard to sustain that daily grind of 150+ games, 6 a week, through the summer.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[sk7326]

As has been alluded to, there are between 6 and 7 million additional reasons why releasing him would be a luxury. That's money that could be used for more productive purposes. For example, I think Bogaerts is eligible for arbitration after this season. If so, he's going to get a rather substantial raise. I think I'd rather spend some of those $ on Xander rather than making a luxury tax payment.

 

Right now, Craig's played 6 games for Pawtucket and has spent a good portion of the year on the DL. He's not blocking anyone at the moment. I don't think the FO cares whether he plays another inning this year or next year. The only way he leaves is if they can swap the contract for somebody else's bad contract.

 

Or he can leave if they tell him to go home - the contract is getting paid

[Spudboy]

I didn't get to Fenway until the 70's but I listened to and watched those late 60's teams. They were some bunch of hitters. I was very sad when Hawk Harrelson got traded and then when Tony C got traded a couple of seasons later. Unfortunately, they had no pitching in an era dominated by pitching. I remember pinning my hopes on Dick Ellsworth, Ray Culp, Gary Bell, Lee Stange and then later Sonny Siebert. I am still waiting for Jim Lonborg to return to 1967 form. Even though they never had enough pitching to compete, they were exciting to watch. Yes, lots of memories.

 

This describes my initiation into a lifetime fan of the Sox.

 

It was a marvelous time.

[cp176]

The 1975 team was a very young team for the most part. A pretty good combination. 1977 - a little older. I will preface this by saying that I do care about stats even all the new crap but I don't really care what they say if they are used to compare today with yesterday. Those vintage late 60's and early 70's teams were mighty f---ing good. End of story! I absolutely love this team. A big difference I think is team speed. They run the bases and they run them well. Positionally, believe it or not, in terms of baseball players in general, i don't know how you get much better than the Sox of 75 unless of course you are the Reds of 75. This year's team takes me back actually. Top to bottom - I like them. I grew up in rural Maine - I followed them but seeing them was pretty much just a dream. I did see Ted though in his last year. He hit a homer. We were in the bleachers and I remember watching Jackie Jenkins in right. Jackie was a hell of a player! Did not get to Fenway again until the late 70's and have been going ever since. My Grandfather would have loved this team! They play hard and they play the right way.

[a700hitter]

The 1975 team was a very young team for the most part. A pretty good combination. 1977 - a little older. I will preface this by saying that I do care about stats even all the new crap but I don't really care what they say if they are used to compare today with yesterday. Those vintage late 60's and early 70's teams were mighty f---ing good. End of story! I absolutely love this team. A big difference I think is team speed. They run the bases and they run them well. Positionally, believe it or not, in terms of baseball players in general, i don't know how you get much better than the Sox of 75 unless of course you are the Reds of 75. This year's team takes me back actually. Top to bottom - I like them. I grew up in rural Maine - I followed them but seeing them was pretty much just a dream. I did see Ted though in his last year. He hit a homer. We were in the bleachers and I remember watching Jackie Jenkins in right. Jackie was a hell of a player! Did not get to Fenway again until the late 70's and have been going ever since. My Grandfather would have loved this team! They play hard and they play the right way.

That is so cool that you saw Teddy Ballgame play and hit a homer. Were you old enough to appreciated that you were watching a baseball god?

[cp176]

thanks Ted - I think that I was. I was 9 and i remember crying when I figured out for sure that he wasn't coming back. i became a fairly big fan of Pete Runnels after that and then of course along came the Captain - Carl!!!

[greenwell]

A couple years ago someone on the BDC forum started a thread on 'what is your favorite stat about this team'?

I'd like to pose that question for this team. Something I was thinking about today is

Xander Bogaerts, at .349/.404/.513 .917 OPS is only the 3rd best hitter on the team

add to that

Travis Shaw, at .306/.372/.529 .902 OPS is 4th

 

What else you got?

[Spudboy]

Hanley with no errors.

[Dojji]

A couple years ago someone on the BDC forum started a thread on 'what is your favorite stat about this team'?

I'd like to pose that question for this team. Something I was thinking about today is

Xander Bogaerts, at .349/.404/.513 .917 OPS is only the 3rd best hitter on the team

add to that

Travis Shaw, at .306/.372/.529 .902 OPS is 4th

 

What else you got?

 

As much crap as this rotation has gotten so far this year our top 3 starters have respectively averaged 6 1/3 innings, 6 1/3 innings and 6 2/3 innings per start. I don't think there's a stat on this team more important than the fact that our offensive ourburst has been met by a very durable top of the rotation. This means that the positions we're sorting out are really the 4 and 5 spots, and puts the whole question of the rotation in a new light.

 

In fact if we get Erod back and one of Buchholz and Kelly stabilizes the last spot in the rotation, we are going to have one heck of a pitching staff -- at least until the next thing goes wrong.

 

I also love the fact that wright has the only 2 complete games on the team so far. He's doing what a great #3 starter does, which is exactly what we needed him to do and more than we could have hoped for.

[iortiz]

Not sure whether this has been discussed early but Red Sox' BABIP is 0.347, the highest in MLB.

 

Would you guys expect a regress here and if so how would it impact for the rest of the season, offensively?

Edited May 26, 2016 by iortiz

[iortiz]

Checking out, most of them are way above their career BAPIPs. We better start cooking a trade for another SP. Those games with wide run-support margins won't last all season long.

 

On the bright side, Price has settled down. Wright seems to be a reality. Porcello is not a top-rotation guy in my book yet but has been pretty decent. E-Rod is coming, isn't he? and Kelly at least looked great in his last start. Also, let's not forget that most of them are young and his career numbers don't say much... But still... JBJ's BABIP is 400?, insane LOL!

[mvp 78]

Hanley with no errors.

 

[S5Dewey]

Checking out, most of them are way above their career BAPIPs. We better start cooking a trade for another SP. Those games with wide run-support margins won't last all season long.

 

On the bright side, Price has settled down. Wright seems to be a reality. Porcello is not a top-rotation guy in my book yet but has been pretty decent. E-Rod is coming, isn't he? and Kelly at least looked great in his last start. Also, let's not forget that most of them are young and his career numbers don't say much... But still... JBJ's BABIP is 400?, insane LOL!

 

I'd be interested in knowing how BAPIP correlates to exit velocity. It would seem that there are two ways a player could have an inordinately high BAPIP, by getting a quick start out of the batter's box or by squaring up on the ball and hitting it hard. High exit velocity means one of two things. Either a ground ball is getting through the infield more quickly than average or there are more uncatchable balls, usually home runs or balls hit off the walls and fences.

 

My very unprofessional observation is that JBJ is hitting the ball hard AND hitting a lot of balls off the wall. He's spraying the ball around and hitting it where they ain't. While I don't expect his BAPIP to remain at the .400 mark it does seem to me that some players are going to have a higher BAPIP than others just like some players have a higher BA than others.

[jacksonianmarch]

This offense is impressive.

[Slasher9]

i agree with Potato on the Hanley with 0 errors stat. and did you see his interactions with Hernandez during the top of the 8th? awesome. i swear this team is so loose and "fun" because of HanRam. IMO.