Referendum on John Farrell

[Hugh2]

Listen, I'm not a John Farrell fan and would not take issue if the team wanted to part ways with him and install a new manager but some the criticism towards him is unfounded.

 

Take last night for example, during the last Price start he screwed up by not putting any faith in his starter and taking him out of the 8th when he was jaming along. Last night, he was too slow to take him out after dominating for 7 innings. Also, he made the wrong move by bringing in Abad. But you traded for the lefty reliever to get lefties out so if Farrell left Barnes in and Barnes got hit by the lefty the criticism would still be he's mismanaging the pen because he didn't bring in the lefty specialist to face the lefty.

 

Sometimes, s*** just happens.

[mvp 78]

Listen, I'm not a John Farrell fan and would not take issue if the team wanted to part ways with him and install a new manager but some the criticism towards him is unfounded.

 

Take last night for example, during the last Price start he screwed up by not putting any faith in his starter and taking him out of the 8th when he was jaming along. Last night, he was too slow to take him out after dominating for 7 innings. Also, he made the wrong move by bringing in Abad. But you traded for the lefty reliever to get lefties out so if Farrell left Barnes in and Barnes got hit by the lefty the criticism would still be he's mismanaging the pen because he didn't bring in the lefty specialist to face the lefty.

 

Sometimes, s*** just happens.

 

No, the mistake he made was not having someone already warming up. Bringing in Abad was not a mistake. If you take too long to get your guys warmed up, you're going to always be too slow with the hook.

[a700hitter]

Listen, I'm not a John Farrell fan and would not take issue if the team wanted to part ways with him and install a new manager but some the criticism towards him is unfounded.

 

Take last night for example, during the last Price start he screwed up by not putting any faith in his starter and taking him out of the 8th when he was jaming along. Last night, he was too slow to take him out after dominating for 7 innings. Also, he made the wrong move by bringing in Abad. But you traded for the lefty reliever to get lefties out so if Farrell left Barnes in and Barnes got hit by the lefty the criticism would still be he's mismanaging the pen because he didn't bring in the lefty specialist to face the lefty.

 

Sometimes, s*** just happens.

i don't think anyone criticized Farrell for being too quick on the trigger in Price's last start. But last night, Farrell reacted way too slow. No visits to the mound. They didn't send the catcher out there to delay. Nothing. He just let it all unfold until the tying run was on base with no one out. He put the pen in a situation where one more hit and a couple of productive outs tie the game. That puts additional pressure on a substandard bullpen. Very poor game management at the end of the game. s*** does happen. In this case, it was Farrell.

[Hugh2]

No, the mistake he made was not having someone already warming up. Bringing in Abad was not a mistake. If you take too long to get your guys warmed up, you're going to always be too slow with the hook.

 

No I agree with that, it's not that he never deserves criticism. Just because you have a guy warming up doesn't mean you shouldn't bring him in.

[a700hitter]

No I agree with that, it's not that he never deserves criticism. Just because you have a guy warming up doesn't mean you shouldn't bring him in.

I am not following your second sentence.

[Bellhorn04]

No, the mistake he made was not having someone already warming up. Bringing in Abad was not a mistake. If you take too long to get your guys warmed up, you're going to always be too slow with the hook.

 

When exactly was the right time to hook Price, that's the big question.

[sk7326]

When exactly was the right time to hook Price, that's the big question.

 

Since we were 4th time through the lineup - I think erring to a quick hook made sense there. I'd have gone after the first baserunner after the homer. But again, Farrell got the matchups he wanted - Cano just made the play.

[a700hitter]

Since we were 4th time through the lineup - I think erring to a quick hook made sense there. I'd have gone after the first baserunner after the homer. But again, Farrell got the matchups he wanted - Cano just made the play.

Farrell should not have put himself in a position where the Cano represented the winning run. Also, as I stated before, he put the pen in a position where 1 or 2 productive outs and 1 base hit tie the game -- that is a very narrow margin of error for a bullpen that has not been very good.

[Spudboy]

When exactly was the right time to hook Price, that's the big question.

 

Why get greedy? He threw 7 dominant innings and his pitch count was nearing exit time. Why push it? Farrell's answer was "He had a chance at a shutout."

 

How about bringing in a rested arm to start the 8th? How about saving Price's arm for later in the season?

 

They had a 4 run lead. Bring in a fresh arm and shut them down or hold them to under 4 runs.

 

Just dumb.

[a700hitter]

Why get greedy? He threw 7 dominant innings and his pitch count was nearing exit time. Why push it? Farrell's answer was "He had a chance at a shutout."

 

His explanation is hollow, because there was no chance of a shutout after the first pitch of the 8th inning. Two pitchers should have been warming after that pitch.

[Bellhorn04]

Why get greedy? He threw 7 dominant innings and his pitch count was nearing exit time. Why push it? Farrell's answer was "He had a chance at a shutout."

 

How about bringing in a rested arm to start the 8th? How about saving Price's arm for later in the season?

 

They had a 4 run lead. Bring in a fresh arm and shut them down or hold them to under 4 runs.

 

Just dumb.

 

Price was only at 89 pitches after 7 innings. That's about 25 pitches away from exit time. And as 700hitter says, our bullpen is not very good. I'm surprised you would think Price shouldn't even have started the inning.

[User Name]

He should have started the inning, but he also should have had someone warming as soon as Mike Zunino, he of the career .621 OPS, hit a moonshot off a cookie. Pitchers lose it, it happens. That's why Farrell gets paid to handle these situations with aplomb. He did not last night.

[illinoisredsox]

Why get greedy? He threw 7 dominant innings and his pitch count was nearing exit time. Why push it? Farrell's answer was "He had a chance at a shutout."

 

How about bringing in a rested arm to start the 8th? How about saving Price's arm for later in the season?

 

They had a 4 run lead. Bring in a fresh arm and shut them down or hold them to under 4 runs.

 

Just dumb.

 

Bull. If you thought that, why didn't you post it in last night's game thread after the 7th inning or during the top of the 8th?

 

There was nothing going into the 8th that indicated Price was at his limit. Two grounders and a fly ball on 10 pitches in the 7th.

 

a700 and I disagree when the bullpen should have been up/when the reliever should have come in, but that is at least debatable. Stating that a reliever should have come in to start the 8th is 20-20 hindsight of the worst kind.

[Slasher9]

Farrell should not have put himself in a position where the Cano represented the winning run. Also, as I stated before, he put the pen in a position where 1 or 2 productive outs and 1 base hit tie the game -- that is a very narrow margin of error for a bullpen that has not been very good.

 

lol. Farrell didnt put himself into that position. David Price did.

[mvp 78]

Bull. If you thought that, why didn't you post it in last night's game thread after the 7th inning or during the top of the 8th?

 

There was nothing going into the 8th that indicated Price was at his limit. Two grounders and a fly ball on 10 pitches in the 7th.

 

a700 and I disagree when the bullpen should have been up/when the reliever should have come in, but that is at least debatable. Stating that a reliever should have come in to start the 8th is 20-20 hindsight of the worst kind.

 

Because not all of us sit in the gamethread itching to post every specific thought that comes into our heads.

[mvp 78]

He should have started the inning, but he also should have had someone warming as soon as Mike Zunino, he of the career .621 OPS, hit a moonshot off a cookie. Pitchers lose it, it happens. That's why Farrell gets paid to handle these situations with aplomb. He did not last night.

 

Does he ever?

[Bellhorn04]

Does he ever?

 

Well yeah, he does. But he is starting to have the look of Joe Btfsplk.

 

[a700hitter]

lol. Farrell didnt put himself into that position. David Price did.

No Farrell did. Price can't take himself out of the game.

[a700hitter]

Because not all of us sit in the gamethread itching to post every specific thought that comes into our heads.

In real time, a number of posters were calling for the pen before Farrell finished his snooze -- maybe he was making a post game meal decision.

[illinoisredsox]

Because not all of us sit in the gamethread itching to post every specific thought that comes into our heads.

 

That's fine. But I'm always a little skeptical when somebody posts 12 hours later what should have been done, especially when they were on the game thread at the time of the move.

[illinoisredsox]

In real time, a number of posters were calling for the pen before Farrell finished his snooze -- maybe he was making a post game meal decision.

 

Exactly. You, Jason, etc were putting that on at the time. Weren't nobody calling for the pen before the 8th.

[Spudboy]

Price was only at 89 pitches after 7 innings. That's about 25 pitches away from exit time. And as 700hitter says, our bullpen is not very good. I'm surprised you would think Price shouldn't even have started the inning.

 

I have no problem with Price starting the 8th. I merely posed it as an option.

 

I would have pulled him after the dinger or certainly after one guy got on.

[Spudboy]

Bull. If you thought that, why didn't you post it in last night's game thread after the 7th inning or during the top of the 8th?

There was nothing going into the 8th that indicated Price was at his limit. Two grounders and a fly ball on 10 pitches in the 7th.

 

a700 and I disagree when the bullpen should have been up/when the reliever should have come in, but that is at least debatable. Stating that a reliever should have come in to start the 8th is 20-20 hindsight of the worst kind.

 

I was not anywhere near my computer and was not on-line if you must know.

 

I tried yelling it to Farrell but I don't think that he heard me.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Spudboy

[a700hitter]

Exactly. You, Jason, etc were putting that on at the time. Weren't nobody calling for the pen before the 8th.

You calling out Spud for alleged hindsight for wanting to go to the pen after the 7th doesn't change the fact that Farrell let the game get away. You never would have seen that late game managing from LaRussa -- never. He remained engaged and alert in the late innings.

[Spudboy]

That's fine. But I'm always a little skeptical when somebody posts 12 hours later what should have been done, especially when they were on the game thread at the time of the move.

 

Yeah you are the authority on baseball strategy. We can all see your superiority.

[illinoisredsox]

I was not anywhere near my computer and was not on-line if you must know.

 

I tried yelling it to Farrell but I don't think that he heard me.

 

Apologies if that was the case. I think you posted something around 11 (oops, midnight on the East Coast) and the implosion started about 10 minutes later.

[illinoisredsox]

Yeah you are the authority on baseball strategy. We can all see your superiority.

 

Given the box of chocolates way the pen has performed this year, I think Farrell was in tough spot there.

 

Abad was the right call, and he made Cano look foolish on one pitch. The homer wasn't that bad a pitch (neither was it that good) and probably would have been called a ball had Cano not golfed it out.

 

Personally. I try to critique a move at the time. If I'm not on, I try not to say anything afterwards (I will not say it never happens). I try not to let the results decide if the move was correct.

 

And damnit, Johnson never should have pinch hit for Willoughby in Game 7.

[a700hitter]

Given the box of chocolates way the pen has performed this year, I think Farrell was in tough spot there.

 

Abad was the right call, and he made Cano look foolish on one pitch. The homer wasn't that bad a pitch (neither was it that good) and probably would have been called a ball had Cano not golfed it out.

 

Personally. I try to critique a move at the time. If I'm not on, I try not to say anything afterwards (I will not say it never happens). I try not to let the results decide if the move was correct.

 

And damnit, Johnson never should have pinch hit for Willoughby in Game 7.

Not a single person has argued that Abad was not the right matchup for Cano. That has not been the issue at all.

[a700hitter]

 

Personally. I try to critique a move at the time. If I'm not on, I try not to say anything afterwards (I will not say it never happens). I try not to let the results decide if the move was correct.

Hindsight or not. Farrell was slow to react in a game situation. Was there any reason for him not to pop out of the dugout after the Zunino HR to settle him down or ask how he felt or inquire if his leg was stiffening up after getting hit with a liner an inning before? He just sat there and let circumstances get out of hand. Again, I will state why he reacted too late in going to the pen. He handed the ball to the pen in a situation where an infield single or a walk and a couple of productive outs would tie the game. That is not much of a margin for error.

[mvp 78]

I'm staying up for tonight's game and will be sure to post ALL of my thoughts in real time.

 

A700, I'm coming for your post total.