A Realistic View at 2016

[Youk Of The Nation]

MLBTR has an interesting piece on some possible "under the radar" trade candidates, and I'm wondering if we may be able to strike gold on a rental without parting with anything too valuable. Here's a name that caught my eye:

 

Jorge De La Rosa, SP, Rockies — The veteran Colorado lefty was off to an abysmal start and is owed a hefty $12.5MM before hitting the open market. But he has been quite effective since returning to the rotation in mid June: over his last five outings, including a four-inning relief appearance, De La Rosa has allowed just six earned runs on 19 hits over 28 frames. He has surrendered 13 free passes against only 19 punch-outs, but De La Rosa has drawn plenty of trade interest in the past and the Rox may be ready to move on. Teams in need of rotation depth could take a look.

 

The money may scare many teams away, but he might be a nice get.

 

 

As someone who follows Rockies games very closely, I can assure you that you do not want Jorge De La Rosa pitching for the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

As someone who follows Rockies games very closely, I can assure you that you do not want Jorge De La Rosa pitching for the Red Sox.

 

Thanks. Just looking for pitchers who won't require top prospects in return.

[southpaw777]

Thanks. Just looking for pitchers who won't require top prospects in return.

 

Were going to have to give up something good for something good no matter what. Pitching, even non Ace types, will cost something. So really, if were gonna go get a starter we might as well make it for the best possible available.

Im over this mediocre crap. I believe Price will be OK, but we have zero after that. No, Im not relying on a flutter ball pitcher year in and year out. Hes having a good year, but history says it wont last. Porcello is a mid rotation arm. Erod is still a question mark, but is still young and hopefully figures it out. Espinoza and Kopech are still a couple+ years away, if they pan out at all.

Were going to HAVE to part with some popular names to get what we desperatly NEED.

[Slasher9]

IMO, probably the biggest blow to the rotation was ERod, not Buchholz or Kelly. I'm not saying that Buchholz or Kelly have been better than ERod has been, but I think the FO had higher expectations, learning curve notwithstanding, from ERod.

 

If ERod had not been injured and had performed similar to what he did last year, this rotation looks a lot different. The dependence on Buchholz/Kelly to fill one rotation spot doesn't look so bad.

this post. 100%. 110%.

[Spudboy]

So three of five rotation pieces produce s***. Does it really matter who was worse?

[moonslav59]

Were going to have to give up something good for something good no matter what. Pitching, even non Ace types, will cost something. So really, if were gonna go get a starter we might as well make it for the best possible available.

Im over this mediocre crap. I believe Price will be OK, but we have zero after that. No, Im not relying on a flutter ball pitcher year in and year out. Hes having a good year, but history says it wont last. Porcello is a mid rotation arm. Erod is still a question mark, but is still young and hopefully figures it out. Espinoza and Kopech are still a couple+ years away, if they pan out at all.

Were going to HAVE to part with some popular names to get what we desperatly NEED.

 

I'm all about building from the top (1-2 slots) not the bottom (4-5 slots), but we may need 2 SP'ers. I'd love to get one top pitcher under team control for 3.3+ years (2.3 at least), but then adding some one like de la Rosa for our 5 slot might not be a bad idea, if the cost is low (Owens or Johnson maybe?)

[southpaw777]

I'm all about building from the top (1-2 slots) not the bottom (4-5 slots), but we may need 2 SP'ers. I'd love to get one top pitcher under team control for 3.3+ years (2.3 at least), but then adding some one like de la Rosa for our 5 slot might not be a bad idea, if the cost is low (Owens or Johnson maybe?)

 

I agree building from the top. We may very well need two guys, but right now we have a bunch of de la rosas IMO. Mid to back rotation guys. we may have to wait until this winter to make a big move...

[moonslav59]

I agree building from the top. We may very well need two guys, but right now we have a bunch of de la rosas IMO. Mid to back rotation guys. we may have to wait until this winter to make a big move...

 

de la Rosa has done pretty well his last few starts. None of our bottom rotation starters have ever looked good

[Nick]

IN THEORY, assuming we can sign a power bat to DH next year, hell we can trade away every prospects, no?

 

What pitcher(s) can we get for Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza, Devers and Swihart?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Nick

[mvp 78]

Well, if you want to mortgage your future, go for it. They could have traded Xander for Cole Hamels 2 years ago. Would you go back in time and trade Mookie?

[Nick]

Well, if you want to mortgage your future, go for it. They could have traded Xander for Cole Hamels 2 years ago. Would you go back in time and trade Mookie?

 

No.

 

Only difference is our lineup is pretty well set for several years now that we've held onto Xander, Betts and Bradley.....What if we're able to get a #1 and #3 type pitchers for above named players to go along with Price, Porcello and Wright? Obviously it's extreme but you have to make choices.....do we want a team that's fun to watch but can't win the big one because we have no pitching? We have 6 all stars and Texas has 2, But can we win without making changes?

 

Mortgaging our future would be to trade Betts/Bradley/Xander....that's not what i'm proposing.

 

C Vazquez/Leon

1B Hanley

2B Pedey

3B Shaw

SS Xander

LF Holt

CF Bradley

RF Betts

DH FA

 

Is this good enough offense to win?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Nick

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

No.

 

Only difference is our lineup is pretty well set for several years now that we've held onto Xander, Betts and Bradley.....What if we're able to get a #1 and #3 type pitchers for above named players to go along with Price, Porcello and Wright? Obviously it's extreme but you have to make choices.....do we want a team that's fun to watch but can't win the big one because we have no pitching? We have 6 all stars and Texas has 2, But can we win without making changes?

 

Mortgaging our future would be to trade Betts/Bradley/Xander....that's not what i'm proposing.

 

C Vazquez/Leon

1B Hanley

2B Pedey

3B Shaw

SS Xander

LF Holt

CF Bradley

RF Betts

DH FA

 

Is this good enough offense to win?

 

Valid point.

[Nick]

Would Miami give up Fernandez and Conley for all of above?

[harmony]

Would Miami give up Fernandez and Conley for all of above?

Probably not with the Marlins only 2.5 games back in the National League Wild Card race.

 

That offer in the offseason would be a different story.

[User Name]

de la Rosa has done pretty well his last few starts. None of our bottom rotation starters have ever looked good

 

De La Rosa's underlying peripherals are terrible. He curiosly has a reverse split too. His ERA is like 7 runs higher outside of Coors.

[a700hitter]

He stinks.

[Spudboy]

He stinks.

 

The King of Talksox so decrees!!!!!!!!1!!!1

 

[moonslav59]

De La Rosa's underlying peripherals are terrible. He curiosly has a reverse split too. His ERA is like 7 runs higher outside of Coors.

 

I'm not a de la Rosa fan, and I hate the idea of improving our staff by looking for a better 5th starter than we have. I prefer to (re)build at the top.

 

I'm just thinking of cheap alternatives to giving away our best prospects.

[moonslav59]

With HanRam recent resurgence, we now have 8 players with 140+ PAs and an .800+ OPS!

 

1.106 Ortiz

.931 JBJ

.867 Bogey

.866 Betts (My mid May projection of Betts finishing top 3 is looking good)

.846 Young

.810 Pedey

.801 Ramirez

.801 Shaw

(.780 Hill in 292 PAs w/ MIL)

.724 Holt

.583 Vaz

 

With Hill, it's 9 guys over .780, but we do need a catcher. (I'm not sure Leon will still be over .800 after 140 PAs.)

 

Looking at the teams just below us (the leader at 476 scored) in runs scored, let's see how "balanced" they are:

 

444 Cubs 4 over .800/5 over .780

440 COL 7 & 7

439 STL 4 & 5 (but 3 over .900)

433 TOR 4 & 6

430 BAL 5 & 6

426 TEX 3 & 4

422 SEA 6 & 6

413 CLE 4 & 4

 

OPS Splits

 

vs RHPs: 1 BOS, 2 BAL, 2 STL, 4 COL, 5 SEA, 6 TOR, 8 CLE, 9 CUBS, 15 TEX

 

vs LHPs: 4 Cubs, 5 BOS, 7 TEX, 11 COL, 14 TOR, 17 SEA, 20 BAL, 24 CLE, 26 STL

 

Away: 1 STL, 2 BOS, 3 Cubs, 5 BAL, 8 SEA, 13 TOR, 17 TEX, 24 CLE, 26 COL

 

As you can see, the Sox are the only team in the top 8 in all 3 categories listed. We are top 5 in each!

 

Folks, we need PITCHING!

 

[southpaw777]

There really isnt much as far as TOP pitchers go. Jeremy Hellickson might be a nice addition with a better team behind him. Nice change up and ALE experience. Oh, and an ERA south of 4

Im wondering since hes a FA how much he would cost. Im guessing not too much. Good to see DD looking at all possibilites.

[Emp9]

There really isnt much as far as TOP pitchers go. Jeremy Hellickson might be a nice addition with a better team behind him. Nice change up and ALE experience. Oh, and an ERA south of 4

Im wondering since hes a FA how much he would cost. Im guessing not too much. Good to see DD looking at all possibilites.

 

Hellickson's ALE #'s are better than what he's done in the NL. That might not mean much though. I think he could keep us in games. I don't want to see a huge over-pay for Hellickson though. He's a #4 on a good day. It just so happens that a #4 SP could be the best we can get.

 

Southpaw, how long until we give ERod another shot ya' think?

[Nick]

Rays can use Vazquez

[moonslav59]

There really isnt much as far as TOP pitchers go. Jeremy Hellickson might be a nice addition with a better team behind him. Nice change up and ALE experience. Oh, and an ERA south of 4

Im wondering since hes a FA how much he would cost. Im guessing not too much. Good to see DD looking at all possibilites.

 

Helickson was showing decline with the Rays, so I'm not sure you can take his numbers vs the AL East at face value.

[Spudboy]

Helickson was showing decline with the Rays, so I'm not sure you can take his numbers vs the AL East at face value.

 

Plus since he would be going from the National to the American League you can add another .5 to his ERA. Not great.

 

But, if either of Hellickson or Moore could be had at reasonable cost I would do it. All they have to do is pitch 5-6 innings of decent ball and that would constitute an upward trend for our 4 and 5 slots.

 

I say get them both! Then we will have 3 former Rays in our rotation. How unique!

[southpaw777]

Hellickson's ALE #'s are better than what he's done in the NL. That might not mean much though. I think he could keep us in games. I don't want to see a huge over-pay for Hellickson though. He's a #4 on a good day. It just so happens that a #4 SP could be the best we can get.

 

Southpaw, how long until we give ERod another shot ya' think?

 

Until he can stop tipping his GD pitches i suppose.

The velocity is back, so thats not an issue. He never had a ST and that usually messes with a pitcher for a bit. That and hes still getting back his command and trusting that knee, so that may have cause a bit of a mechanics issue they need to fix.

Im hoping by sept. Hes back for a playoff run.

[southpaw777]

Rays can use Vazquez

 

A LOT of teams could...Good thing were not trading him.

[S5Dewey]

Rays can use Vazquez

 

As I was watching the game I was thinking how much the Rays could use Swihart - once he gets healthy.

[Kimmi]

Plus since he would be going from the National to the American League you can add another .5 to his ERA. Not great.

 

But, if either of Hellickson or Moore could be had at reasonable cost I would do it. All they have to do is pitch 5-6 innings of decent ball and that would constitute an upward trend for our 4 and 5 slots.

 

I say get them both! Then we will have 3 former Rays in our rotation. How unique!

 

We're not necessarily looking for a top of the rotation pitcher. We need someone to solidify the bottom of the rotation. Hellickson is certainly capable of doing that. And given that he would be a 2 month rental, his cost should be reasonable.

[moonslav59]

We're not necessarily looking for a top of the rotation pitcher. We need someone to solidify the bottom of the rotation. Hellickson is certainly capable of doing that. And given that he would be a 2 month rental, his cost should be reasonable.

 

I don't think I've ever been for rebuilding a rotation from the bottom, but I'm not sure we've ever had a contending team with such atrocious 4-5 starters. With the need for 2 SP'ers this summer, and the cost being so high, I think this is the first time I would suggest we get a (rental) guy like Hellickson along with a solid #2 type pitcher with several years of team control.

[FredLynn]

Until he can stop tipping his GD pitches i suppose.

The velocity is back, so thats not an issue. He never had a ST and that usually messes with a pitcher for a bit. That and hes still getting back his command and trusting that knee, so that may have cause a bit of a mechanics issue they need to fix.

Im hoping by sept. Hes back for a playoff run.

 

ERod's major problem, aside from command, is that he has only two pitches he can throw reliably. As a RP you can get away with that, but not as a starter. He needs to develop a slider or curve that he can command.