A Realistic View at 2016

[southpaw777]

If our SP'ing continues to struggle, what about the idea of moving Barnes back to that role?

 

I know he's doing great out of the pen, but still...

 

Totally against that right now. He has taken since last year to finally adjust to the pen and is throwing 98-100MPH with control. He started to look real good recently. With Carson Smith out until the end of next year, Barnes role is a very important one. Hes saving the arms of taz and Koji. Koji is done after this year and will need to be replaced if they dont offer gim another deal. Is Taz a FA or arb 3?

Anyway, although I understand why, I think that move would hurt the bullpen and Barnes. Leave him where he is. He was never affective as a starter and hes looking like he could be an important part of the pen for a few years.

[moonslav59]

Totally against that right now. He has taken since last year to finally adjust to the pen and is throwing 98-100MPH with control. He started to look real good recently. With Carson Smith out until the end of next year, Barnes role is a very important one. Hes saving the arms of taz and Koji. Koji is done after this year and will need to be replaced if they dont offer gim another deal. Is Taz a FA or arb 3?

Anyway, although I understand why, I think that move would hurt the bullpen and Barnes. Leave him where he is. He was never affective as a starter and hes looking like he could be an important part of the pen for a few years.

 

He has not had good control this year. His BB/9 rate is 4.9 and he's walked 4 batters in his last 5.1 innings.

[Hitch]

So why would you want him starting?

[southpaw777]

He has not had good control this year. His BB/9 rate is 4.9 and he's walked 4 batters in his last 5.1 innings.

 

Recently Moon, I said recently hes looked real good. .dont look at his whole year. He's looked great with runners on and shutting things down, as i type this he did it again with two runners on and getting EE out.

He just needed time to adjust to this role from a starter. Trying to stretch him out might mess things up in that pen and it would take some time to do so. That, and he never looked all that good as a starter. Why mess with something that seems to have clicked with him recently?

Edited May 28, 2016 by southpaw777

[moonslav59]

Recently Moon, I said recently hes looked real good. .dont look at his whole year. He's looked great with runners on and shutting things down, as i type this he did it again with two runners on and getting EE out.

He just needed time to adjust to this role from a starter. Trying to stretch him out might mess things up in that pen and it would take some time to do so. That, and he never looked all that good as a starter. Why mess with something that seems to have clicked with him recently?

 

Recently, he has 5 BBs in 5.2 innings.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure I want him starting as of right now. I only mentioned him as an option that I have not heard discussed.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm all for keeping as much of our youth as possible, but the fact is we have bottlenecks at several positions and too many expensive vets that are near impossible to jettison. Eventually someone will go. To maximize return, it will (or should) be someone with a high stock value.

 

I caught a lot of grief for suggesting we offer Swihart due to the fact that we had Vazquez, and Swihart's highest value is as a catcher, and catcher's are in very high demand in MLB.

 

I see Moncada and Benintendi making the chance Devers ever wins a FT slot as being very hard to happen, even if we somehow are able to get rid of Sandoval and Shaw fizzles out by the time he's ML ready. That's also assuming Travis and Hernandez never do well enough to win a key role on the team. If Moncada wins an OF slot, then where does Benintendi play? More likely, Moncada will have to play in the IF.

 

To me, our best package might start with Swihart and Devers, even though Devers' stock might have slipped this season a little bit. To me, those two headliners net us way more than a rental- even a great one. If we add other nice pieces like Owens, Johnson and/or Kopech, the return should be even better.

 

 

This perspective is why I keep returning to this thread. I hate giving up young talent, but, as you say, right now some of them are likely blocked. Meanwhile, the John Henry era continues to demonstrate an inability to find and develop good pitchers and so has had to rely on free agency and trades.

[southpaw777]

And the last three games hes gone 2.2 IP with 2bb and 0 runs. All with guys on base. High leverage situations. Hes been very good recently. Also with Taz and Koji, he will been saving their arms. Just too much negative about it IMHO.

I know it was just a thought, but I dont think its a good idea. I think you are right that they will look internally first...over the next month or so and then see where they are at.

[moonslav59]

And the last three games hes gone 2.2 IP with 2bb and 0 runs. All with guys on base. High leverage situations. Hes been very good recently. Also with Taz and Koji, he will been saving their arms. Just too much negative about it IMHO.

I know it was just a thought, but I dont think its a good idea. I think you are right that they will look internally first...over the next month or so and then see where they are at.

 

Who would you say gets the next chance? Johnson? Cuevas? Elias? Wilkerson? Owens?

 

I'm not arguing to put Barnes in front of these guys, but just that we should keep the thought on the table.

 

BTW, are we supposed to be impressed by 2 BB in his last 1.2 IP, 2 BB in his last 2.2 IP or 3BB in his last 3 IP?

 

I will note that he has not let up a hit in his last 3 IP.

[southpaw777]

Who would you say gets the next chance? Johnson? Cuevas? Elias? Wilkerson? Owens?

 

I'm not arguing to put Barnes in front of these guys, but just that we should keep the thought on the table.

 

BTW, are we supposed to be impressed by 2 BB in his last 1.2 IP, 2 BB in his last 2.2 IP or 3BB in his last 3 IP?

 

I will note that he has not let up a hit in his last 3 IP.

 

 

Kelly and ERod will get a few starts each i imagine. Maybe Elias will get a start.

Owens had his chance and really doesnt look that great. Johnson has Anxiety and is not pitching.

So figure that will take us into July. At that point we should know what we have and whats available and for what price. If everyone blows, then DD will have to get creative outside the organization. Not sure, but I believe they have 27 yo Wilkerson in AAA as well. At this point, they may DFA someone and put him on the 40-man (I dont think hes on it already) Thats probably a long shot though.

Impressed? Not necessarily..but I think you have to start looking at the high leverage situations hes been in recently, and has been successful. Its worth taking note. His secondary stuff has started to play up better since he now has a lot more seperation from his FB as a reliever. Ive seen a change the last few games. I think the reliever role is starting to click with him and the adjustment time maybe over. He has the potential to have a lot of success in the pen.

Edited May 29, 2016 by southpaw777

[moonslav59]

Kelly and ERod will get a few starts each i imagine. Maybe Elias will get a start.

Owens had his chance and really doesnt look that great. Johnson has Anxiety and is not pitching.

So figure that will take us into July. At that point we should know what we have and whats available and for what price. If everyone blows, then DD will have to get creative outside the organization. Not sure, but I believe they have 27 yo Wilkerson in AAA as well. At this point, they may DFA someone and put him on the 40-man (I dont think hes on it already) Thats probably a long shot though.

Impressed? Not necessarily..but I think you have to start looking at the high leverage situations hes been in recently, and has been successful. Its worth taking note. His secondary stuff has started to play up better since he now has a lot more seperation from his FB as a reliever. Ive seen a change the last few games. I think the reliever role is starting to click with him and the adjustment time maybe over. He has the potential to have a lot of success in the pen.

 

Thanks for the reply. You kind of said what I felt all along- that there really is nobody I have a lot of faith in at this point. It goes along with my whole "too much quantity vs too little quality" position.

 

It's also the reason I brought up Barnes as a possible starter down the road.

[dannycater]

Bad News Barnes continues his Sox saga

[dannycater]

I have to say that seeing moon and the word "rookie" by him just doesn't seem right at all.

[SoxHop]

I have to say that seeing moon and the word "rookie" by him just doesn't seem right at all.

 

A new start........... a good person will bring good things where ever they go.......... and be appreciated....

[southpaw777]

Thanks for the reply. You kind of said what I felt all along- that there really is nobody I have a lot of faith in at this point. It goes along with my whole "too much quantity vs too little quality" position.

 

It's also the reason I brought up Barnes as a possible starter down the road.

 

Totally understand why you did. I think were gonna end up having to go the trade market though unless kelly and/or ERod step up. If one or both do that, then i think we should get another pen arm for the playoffs.

We really need both a starter and a reliever, but right now we need a reliever. A starter can wait for the time being.

[moonslav59]

Thanks for the reply. You kind of said what I felt all along- that there really is nobody I have a lot of faith in at this point. It goes along with my whole "too much quantity vs too little quality" position.

 

It's also the reason I brought up Barnes as a possible starter down the road.

 

 

Totally understand why you did. I think were gonna end up having to go the trade market though unless kelly and/or ERod step up. If one or both do that, then i think we should get another pen arm for the playoffs.

We really need both a starter and a reliever, but right now we need a reliever. A starter can wait for the time being.

 

Well, if we end up keeping Buch in the pen, and he does well, he might solve the pen issue. If we end up sending Kelly to the pen, the same might go for him.

 

When I looked at the list of starters we had in the spring, and argued about the lack of quality and the abundance or mediocrity, I never expected to see O'Sullivan at all, and yet there he was.

 

I think this was my ordered list of starters before opening day:

1) Price

2) Porcello

3) ERod (although he was hurt before opening day)

4) Buch

5) Kelly

6) Wright

7) Owens

8) Elias

9) Johnson

10) Escobar

11) Barnes

12) Cuevas

 

I never even had O'Sullivan listed.

 

Now, I can see how some might say, there's an example of why you need quantity, but I disagree. Had we picked up a durable, solid #2 or #3 starter, we'd never have used O'Sullivan. Yeah, even durable pitchers get hurt, but I'm, getting tired of watching guys like Owens, O'Sullivan and Johnson and praying they become the miracle we have hoped for.

 

I always liked Wright, but it's frightening to think he's one of our big 3 now.

 

I still think SP'ing is our biggest weakness.

[southpaw777]

Thanks for the reply. You kind of said what I felt all along- that there really is nobody I have a lot of faith in at this point. It goes along with my whole "too much quantity vs too little quality" position.

 

It's also the reason I brought up Barnes as a possible starter down the road.

 

 

 

 

Totally understand why you did. I think were gonna end up having to go the trade market though unless kelly and/or ERod step up. If one or both do that, then i think we should get another pen arm for the playoffs.

We really need both a starter and a reliever, but right now we need a reliever. A starter can wait for the time being.

 

Well, if we end up keeping Buch in the pen, and he does well, he might solve the pen issue. If we end up sending Kelly to the pen, the same might go for him.

 

When I looked at the list of starters we had in the spring, and argued about the lack of quality and the abundance or mediocrity, I never expected to see O'Sullivan at all, and yet there he was.

 

I think this was my ordered list of starters before opening day:

1) Price

2) Porcello

3) ERod (although he was hurt before opening day)

4) Buch

5) Kelly

6) Wright

7) Owens

8) Elias

9) Johnson

10) Escobar

11) Barnes

12) Cuevas

 

I never even had O'Sullivan listed.

 

Now, I can see how some might say, there's an example of why you need quantity, but I disagree. Had we picked up a durable, solid #2 or #3 starter, we'd never have used O'Sullivan. Yeah, even durable pitchers get hurt, but I'm, getting tired of watching guys like Owens, O'Sullivan and Johnson and praying they become the miracle we have hoped for.

 

I always liked Wright, but it's frightening to think he's one of our big 3 now.

 

I still think SP'ing is our biggest weakness.

 

Agree about possibly kelly in the pen as well. Have to wait and see how Kelly and ERod do. If there is a solid TOTR guy out there that makes sense now, and the future, i think DD will make a move. If it upgrades the rotation then I think we will at least be involved.

I wish we could store better depth in the minors. Unfortunately thats why most of these guys are depth and are available to wait in AAA for their shot. Spending all that $$ on two relievers and an Ace was a good offseason. My guess is DD wanted to see what he had this year before making another big move and unload some prospects and add more salary. My guess is everyone saw a 1-2 of Price and Erod with Porcello Buch and Kelly. If healthy, thats a good rotation compared to the rest of the division. ERod got hurt, Kelly got hurt, Smith had TJS, and Buch looks lost. I dont think anyone would have thought that was going to happen. I also dont think they thought Owens, Johnson, Elias, and whoever else, would all be this bad.

Theres the arguement that Buch should have been sent to AAA on a phantom injury and try to get straight like Kelly and Porcello did last year. The reason is because we are going to need depth and you got a guy, if hes right, can run off 10-12 games of ace type pitching.

it looked pretty good going into ST on offense and pitching. I think they did a great job taking care of the staff. Obviously some question marks like everyone else, but I was good with Price and Erod at the top and figured at least one out of the other three would b good. That turned out to be porcello with wright being a nice surprise.

For the pen Im really hoping Barnes continues to improve so he can take over that 6-7 and hold the other team.

I guess the bottom line is they have to let some things play out over the next month or so and then see where they, and other teams are at. With DD im really not worried about acquiring a player if needed. My worry is who we will have to give up.

Edited May 30, 2016 by southpaw777

[dustcover]

It sure is a heck of a lot more enjoyable watching the Sox this year than last year. The guys are playing with a lot of enthusiasm, and it seems for the most part they are individually playing with a 'team first' attitude.

 

And although one can reasonably expect the likes of Bogaerts, Bradley, Pedroia, and of course Big Papi to have consistently good at-bats, it is topping on the cake when less heralded players like Shaw, Swihart, Hannigan, Rutledge, or Fernandez, as he did today, get a big hit that impacts the game's outcome.

 

And knowing that an impact player like Hanley can take a day off now and again to keep him fresh and healthy throughout the long rigorous season without giving up substantial offensive output because of the strong and flexible bench cannot be overlooked.

 

And how about that defense? Who, if they had been told back in February that Shaw was to be the regular 3B, Hanley the 1B, and Swihart the regular LF, would of imagined that we'd be lauding the team defense?

 

And I'll close with this observation. A rotation of Price, Porcello, Wright, Kelly, & Rodriguez, barring injuries, may well be good enough to get the Sox deep into the playoffs, perhaps all the way to the WS.

[iortiz]

Some of us have been saying that we see kind of the same 2013 chemistry right now. Papi is not playing. He is simply enjoying the moment and seems like there is zero pressure on him. Hanley is healthy and playing solid defense. Our young core players are playing like all stars everyday. Price has settled down. Wright came from nowhere and is performing like vintage Wakefield. Porcello is under 4. Kimbrel has not been as sharp as I would expect but he is going to be ok.

 

We only need another solid SP and probably another reliever who can share the load with Koji to round the team.

[Dojji]

Hello dustcover, welcome to the forum. A word to the wise, it might have been a good idea to read the posting guidelines sticky. We like to have thoughts relevant to a given topic be in a thread about that topic, so we know where to find them. This also makes bringing older topics back to the forefront when new information emerges much easier.

 

That said, I agree, the team has shown some exciting chemistry and players have come out of nowhere to take the forefront of the team, that's always exciting. This team showed something against a very good Orioles team this afternoon that I hope we see repeated. There's plenty of reason to be optimistic about the team's chances right now.

[mvp 78]

Dojji, he's had 3 other threads already merged elsewhere. Not sure he cares about where the posts go.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I had no idea what this thread was even going to be about until I opened it. Which made me suspect that it would probably need to be merged.

 

That being said, I agree 100%, I have already mentioned several times how much this team reminds me of 2013. Everyone is playing like they haven't a care in the world, like they already know they're awesome and have nothing to prove to anyone. I love it.

[SinceYaz]

It sure is a heck of a lot more enjoyable watching the Sox this year than last year. The guys are playing with a lot of enthusiasm, and it seems for the most part they are individually playing with a 'team first' attitude.

 

And although one can reasonably expect the likes of Bogaerts, Bradley, Pedroia, and of course Big Papi to have consistently good at-bats, it is topping on the cake when less heralded players like Shaw, Swihart, Hannigan, Rutledge, or Fernandez, as he did today, get a big hit that impacts the game's outcome.

 

And knowing that an impact player like Hanley can take a day off now and again to keep him fresh and healthy throughout the long rigorous season without giving up substantial offensive output because of the strong and flexible bench cannot be overlooked.

 

And how about that defense? Who, if they had been told back in February that Shaw was to be the regular 3B, Hanley the 1B, and Swihart the regular LF, would of imagined that we'd be lauding the team defense?

 

And I'll close with this observation. A rotation of Price, Porcello, Wright, Kelly, & Rodriguez, barring injuries, may well be good enough to get the Sox deep into the playoffs, perhaps all the way to the WS.

 

Dusty,

 

Welcome!

 

I couldn't agree more. When we stub our toe like on Saturday it almost seems totally out of character. Even still, it was a never say die affair. Friday too. Both we struggles and we - I - am getting used to them having their way.

 

I like the chain ... when the offense gets rolling it gets really interesting.

[Emp9]

I had no idea what this thread was even going to be about until I opened it. Which made me suspect that it would probably need to be merged.

 

That being said, I agree 100%, I have already mentioned several times how much this team reminds me of 2013. Everyone is playing like they haven't a care in the world, like they already know they're awesome and have nothing to prove to anyone. I love it.

 

I really can't speak for Moon, but to me The Realistic Threads were an attempt to have a realistic discussion about Red Sox baseball. Free of trolls, political views, outrageous hyperbole, preposterous trade proposals, etc. Where observations were welcome and factually dug a little deeper into without the need of personal attacks (or at least not as many personal attacks). At the same time, being aware of budget constraints and not forgoing all reason when it comes to free agent signings, trades, track records, history, expectations, our farm system, our graduates, including all other teams as well. That doesn't mean there were no heated arguments or disagreements. But It always served as a decent sanctuary for posters who just simply wanted to talk baseball and leave out that other noise. Besides centering around budgetary criteria, there wasn't any actual set topic. Surprisingly, nobody ever seemed to mind or take issue with it's topical fluctuation or vagueness. If I were a Moderator, I would concentrate my efforts on keeping things civil, and not worry so much about it's subject matter (unless it's not baseball related of course) or where to file it under.

[Slasher9]

I really can't speak for Moon, but to me The Realistic Threads were an attempt to have a realistic discussion about Red Sox baseball. Free of trolls, political views, outrageous hyperbole, preposterous trade proposals, etc. Where observations were welcome and factually dug a little deeper into without the need of personal attacks (or at least not as many personal attacks). At the same time, being aware of budget constraints and not forgoing all reason when it comes to free agent signings, trades, track records, history, expectations, our farm system, our graduates, including all other teams as well. That doesn't mean there were no heated arguments or disagreements. But It always served as a decent sanctuary for posters who just simply wanted to talk baseball and leave out that other noise. Besides centering around budgetary criteria, there wasn't any actual set topic. Surprisingly, nobody ever seemed to mind or take issue with it's topical fluctuation or vagueness. If I were a Moderator, I would concentrate my efforts on keeping things civil, and not worry so much about it's subject matter (unless it's not baseball related of course) or where to file it under.

 

hey Emp. i think YotN was talking about the thread Dust started. he ended up merging it into this one.

[Spudboy]

The new members just have to learn how to roll with how things go here at Talksox.

 

The members here have always been pretty accommodating of new members.

[dustcover]

My apologies if I over stepped the boundaries of the Forum guidelines. I do indeed care about cooperating and helping to keep the Forum such an enjoyable environment within which to share with others one's love of the Red Sox.

 

However, as a septuagenarian, I sometimes wonder if overall my thoughts or views are even relevant. Keeping up with where or how my random thoughts or generalized views should be entered, I sometimes find daunting.

 

Given the fine job the moderators are doing by minimizing the intrusion of certain unwelcome trolls, who dragged down the BDC forum, I welcome their oversight in managing this forum. In this regard, I will try to make their job a bit easier by being more observant of my posts overlapping other already established topics.

 

I must admit, however, that sometimes the more astute members have discussions, the substance of which goes way beyond my pay grade, and my posts are more of a conversational nature often in an idiom one might use while seated next to a stranger in the twenty-second row of the bleachers in between innings.

 

I look forward to the continued fine play of the Sox and the opportunity to share the experience with all the other true-fans here on TalkSox.

[Spudboy]

My apologies if I over stepped the boundaries of the Forum guidelines. I do indeed care about cooperating and helping to keep the Forum such an enjoyable environment within which to share with others one's love of the Red Sox.

 

However, as a septuagenarian, I sometimes wonder if overall my thoughts or views are even relevant. Keeping up with where or how my random thoughts or generalized views should be entered, I sometimes find daunting.

 

Given the fine job the moderators are doing by minimizing the intrusion of certain unwelcome trolls, who dragged down the BDC forum, I welcome their oversight in managing this forum. In this regard, I will try to make their job a bit easier by being more observant of my posts overlapping other already established topics.

 

I must admit, however, that sometimes the more astute members have discussions, the substance of which goes way beyond my pay grade, and my posts are more of a conversational nature often in an idiom one might use while seated next to a stranger in the twenty-second row of the bleachers in between innings.

 

I look forward to the continued fine play of the Sox and the opportunity to share the experience with all the other true-fans here on TalkSox.

 

You have not committed any crime as far as I can tell.

 

And your age and experience as a fan are valued by others here I am sure.

 

I say post what you feel. I like what you say and how you say it.

 

Of course I am an old fart so what the f*** do I know?

[Emp9]

hey Emp. i think YotN was talking about the thread Dust started. he ended up merging it into this one.

 

Got it. Still confusing as hell. Not every thread has longevity anyways, they tend to moderate themselves.

[southpaw777]

My apologies if I over stepped the boundaries of the Forum guidelines. I do indeed care about cooperating and helping to keep the Forum such an enjoyable environment within which to share with others one's love of the Red Sox.

 

However, as a septuagenarian, I sometimes wonder if overall my thoughts or views are even relevant. Keeping up with where or how my random thoughts or generalized views should be entered, I sometimes find daunting.

 

Given the fine job the moderators are doing by minimizing the intrusion of certain unwelcome trolls, who dragged down the BDC forum, I welcome their oversight in managing this forum. In this regard, I will try to make their job a bit easier by being more observant of my posts overlapping other already established topics.

 

I must admit, however, that sometimes the more astute members have discussions, the substance of which goes way beyond my pay grade, and my posts are more of a conversational nature often in an idiom one might use while seated next to a stranger in the twenty-second row of the bleachers in between innings.

 

I look forward to the continued fine play of the Sox and the opportunity to share the experience with all the other true-fans here on TalkSox.

 

Hey DC!

Good to see you made it here. Your views are always welcome. I enjoy Your random posts as well as the not so random ones