Pablo Sandoval

[a700hitter]

I think most normal people saw the potential and just realized not to expect greatness right out of the gate.

So, where did you stand on him?

[Slasher9]

Those things didn't happen? Of course they were noticed, and of course he had to improve those aspects of his game. The organization also noticed those weaknesses and helped him improve in those aspects. There was no groundswell to ship ship him out of town at that time. If his game didn't improve in the following year, there might have been a sentiment to get rid of him or change his position, but that didn't happen.

 

100% agree.

in regards to MVP's quote of Not sure anyone complained about Xander:

i just find it amazing no one on this board complained about X-Bo throughout his 2014 campaign. personally his been one of my favorite Sox players since fall of 2013. i never wanted to trade him or move him to 3b but based on his performance throughout the 2014 season i understood why other posters were taking jabs at him.

[a700hitter]

100% agree.

in regards to MVP's quote of Not sure anyone complained about Xander:

i just find it amazing no one on this board complained about X-Bo throughout his 2014 campaign. personally his been one of my favorite Sox players since fall of 2013. i never wanted to trade him or move him to 3b but based on his performance throughout the 2014 season i understood why other posters were taking jabs at him.

We are fans. We complain about a player's weaknesses and mistakes, but in the context of Hugh's post it needed to be clarified that no one here was criticizing the FO about XB or claiming that he was a mistake.

[mvp 78]

So, where did you stand on him?

 

I couldn't find anything in the historical record. I've always liked him, but believe no player is untouchable in a trade.

[Slasher9]

We are fans. We complain about a player's weaknesses and mistakes, but in the context of Hugh's post it needed to be clarified that no one here was criticizing the FO about XB or claiming that he was a mistake.

 

good clarity. and fair.

we had some on BDC that were ready to jump of a bridge if a player went 0-4.....

[mvp 78]

Not sure anyone complained about Xander or Betts on here.

 

How did this sentence turn into a definitive history of Talksox? It's not like I said "there's no way anyone ever has spoken poorly of Xander on here." I even followed that up with the "most normal people" comment. Somewhere along the lines I bet certain posters complained here or there, but I don't remember there being any ongoing narratives concerning these matters.

[a700hitter]

I couldn't find anything in the historical record. I've always liked him, but believe no player is untouchable in a trade.

I was just joking at your reference to being normal. That would have to be a very broad spectrum on this forum, but that is okay. Normal is often boring.

[mvp 78]

good clarity. and fair.

we had some on BDC that were ready to jump of a bridge if a player went 0-4.....

 

Gamethreads aren't cannon. They are an alternate universe.

[mvp 78]

I was just joking at your reference to being normal. That would have to be a very broad spectrum on this forum, but that is okay. Normal is often boring.

Oh, I saw that. I'm under no delusion regarding my normalcy or lack thereof. I'm more concerned about how my wife is able to deal with me on a daily basis.

[Hugh2]

We are fans. We complain about a player's weaknesses and mistakes, but in the context of Hugh's post it needed to be clarified that no one here was criticizing the FO about XB or claiming that he was a mistake.

 

Well I'm happy this board has this level of insanity, I guess I just assumed the mix between ideals, rational, and rationality would be the same over here. I'm still learning, although I believe even over there most people were willing to give him more time.

[a700hitter]

How did this sentence turn into a definitive history of Talksox? It's not like I said "there's no way anyone ever has spoken poorly of Xander on here." I even followed that up with the "most normal people" comment. Somewhere along the lines I bet certain posters complained here or there, but I don't remember there being any ongoing narratives concerning these matters.

We told the Boston.com people that we didn't care about their squabbles on their forum. Now, they seem to have turned their attention to dredging up squabbles here. Let's just discuss baseball. There is plenty of content there.

[a700hitter]

Gamethreads aren't cannon. They are an alternate universe.

Game threads are 90% emotion and 10% game analysis.

[mvp 78]

We told the Boston.com people that we didn't care about their squabbles on their forum. Now, they seem to have turned their attention to dredging up squabbles here. Let's just discuss baseball. There is plenty of content there.

 

"Do you prefer deep dish or thin sliced? Text 1 for deep dish and 2 for thin sliced. Steve, your thoughts?" That's my favorite part of baseball these days.

[mvp 78]

Game threads are 90% emotion and 10% game analysis.

 

That 10% is a little high, no?

[a700hitter]

That 10% is a little high, no?

The analysis is usually done in an emotional manner, but it is there 8-10% of the time. It is just hard to differentiate it from the purely emotional reactions. LOL!! For example, "Farrell, you idiot! Why are you letting Young bat against the righty reliever when you have Holt and Shaw on the bench!" That is really game analysis even though it is stated very emotionally. It is also something that I probably posted.

[Spudboy]

I blame the team far more for giving him that big contract. It's not like history of issues with getting/staying in shape were a secret before 2015, and his already-declining stats were there for all to see.

 

Many of us saw disaster and an albatross contract on the horizon even before the Red Sox inked him...I just never imagined it would happen so quickly and dramatically.

 

Exactly.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, what exactly do you disagree with? Most of these points seem self-evident. I know it's harsh, & fueled by anger & disgust, but he basically slimmed down enough to bag a mega-contract, then let everyone down, especially his teammates & the fans, simply because he then chose to dismiss all self-control in order to indulge his every food desire. Hyperbolic? Sure. Accurate? Yes.

 

$$$$$$$ aside, he actually did us all a favor this year. He's gone, and we have a far better player who cares deeply about making it in the bigs with the Red Sox.

 

Win - Win.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about his character based on the fact that he is fat. That is what I am taking issue with.

[Kimmi]

I blame the team far more for giving him that big contract. It's not like history of issues with getting/staying in shape were a secret before 2015, and his already-declining stats were there for all to see.

 

Many of us saw disaster and an albatross contract on the horizon even before the Red Sox inked him...I just never imagined it would happen so quickly and dramatically.

 

It was not a good contract, but should not have gone this sour this quickly. Pablo was due to regress this year. How much? I don't know, but I don't think a 2 WAR player was beyond the realm of possibility. Optimistic maybe, but not impossible.

[Kimmi]

There's no doubt he has completely failed to meet even the lowest expectations. Absolutely. It's just that the leap from "bad baseball player" to "bad person" isn't one I'm very comfortable making when the guy's major sin is being fat, which is something we knew coming in.

 

Bottom line, it's a s***** situation all around, with the only bright spot being the way Shaw has seized his opportunity and run with it so far.

 

Thank you.

[redsoxdirtdog]

You are making a lot of assumptions about his character based on the fact that he is fat. That is what I am taking issue with.

 

 

Kimmi, sorry you don't think so, but these assumptions are self-evident.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a little shocking what has happened with Sandoval. He had himself a pretty good career going with the Giants. Sometimes free agency is a great thing for a player's bank account but not their playing career.

[redsoxdirtdog]

It was not a good contract, but should not have gone this sour this quickly. Pablo was due to regress this year. How much? I don't know, but I don't think a 2 WAR player was beyond the realm of possibility. Optimistic maybe, but not impossible.

 

Kimmi, I think you need to come around to the fact that this was an epically STUPID contract, any way you slice it.

 

After the ridiculously moronic contract, Pablo shoved it up our arsses by not giving a rip. This is not even arguable. The only conclusion anyone could make us that after getting the payday of his LIFE, Panda did what Pandas do. EAT, & not give a shyte about anybody else.

 

JF not keeping tabs on him was a mistake of epic proportions! Again, not even a question about it. THE CONTRACT? Ridiculous on it's face! Not Panda's fault, other than being a sneaky little POS who will diet & work out to get a contract from a DS GM who needs to make a splash with a name, then eat to his heart's content. Sorry! To me, th a t's the definition of a taker! Not sure what you've seen that leads you to believe that he has put out for his team & teammates here in Boston? If that's bias, so be it. Of COURSE It is! You were expecting what from Boston fans?

 

AGAIN.... The irony is????? I actually am VERY HAPPY ABOUT THIS YEAR!!!! I didn't ever want to see the guy again! Did me & all of RS Nation a HUGE favor!

[a700hitter]

Kimmi, I think you need to come around to the fact that this was an epically STUPID contract, any way you slice it.

 

After the ridiculously moronic contract, Pablo shoved it up our arsses by not giving a rip. This is not even arguable. The only conclusion anyone could make us that after getting the payday of his LIFE, Panda did what Pandas do. EAT, & not give a shyte about anybody else.

 

JF not keeping tabs on him was a mistake of epic proportions! Again, not even a question about it. THE CONTRACT? Ridiculous on it's face! Not Panda's fault, other than being a sneaky little POS who will diet & work out to get a contract from a DS GM who needs to make a splash with a name, then eat to his heart's content. Sorry! To me, th a t's the definition of a taker! Not sure what you've seen that leads you to believe that he has put out for his team & teammates here in Boston? If that's bias, so be it. Of COURSE It is! You were expecting what from Boston fans?

 

AGAIN.... The irony is????? I actually am VERY HAPPY ABOUT THIS YEAR!!!! I didn't ever want to see the guy again! Did me & all of RS Nation a HUGE favor!

How dare you question his character. I am sure that he worked very hard at putting on all that weight.

[redsoxdirtdog]

How dare you question his character. I am sure that he worked very hard at putting on all that weight.

 

 

Actually, I admire Kimmi's heart. She Is Such A NICE person, but a bit Pollyannish. I like her style & heart, but she just needs to give a bit more of a cap tip to us hot headed life long Sox fans, who were born to vent. She's simply too nice to get down in the dirt & kick it up with an old dirtdog. I'm not saying she doesn't know her stuff! It's actually a compliment. She is a nice person. I'm straight up not that nice. You F my team? I take you out! Pablo clearly F'd us! NO IF AND's, or BUT's about it. HE F'd us!

 

Why even defend the guy? Like I say, nice guy, but cut the shyte! The guy is a WORLD CLASS TAKER!

Edited May 7, 2016 by redsoxdirtdog

[StephenCurry30]

There is no reason to defend Sandoval, he is a multi millionaire player who is failing to do his job, in part because he can't stop f***ing eating. What is the defense in that? Sure, Pablo may be/is a nice guy, but this is a business and he has sucked ass at his job so far.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Actually, I admire Kimmi's heart. She Is Such A NICE person, but a bit Pollyannish. I like her style & heart, but she just needs to give a bit more of a cap tip to us hot headed life long Sox fans, who were born to vent. She's simply too nice to get down in the dirt & kick it up with an old dirtdog. I'm not saying she doesn't know her stuff! It's actually a compliment. She is a nice person. I'm straight up not that nice. You F my team? I take you out! Pablo clearly F'd us! NO IF AND's, or BUT's about it. HE F'd us!

 

Why even defend the guy? Like I say, nice guy, but cut the shyte! The guy is a WORLD CLASS TAKER!

 

This is the same stuff people were saying about Lackey and Lester after the debacle of a season that was 2012. If you recall, the following year, both of them played a somewhat important role in the World Series championship. I'm not saying Sandoval hasn't sucked so far. I'm not even saying that he might come back and be worthy of his contract, because I honestly don't believe he will. But I also think we can complain about the signing, his poor performance on the field, or his poor performance in the batter's box without resorting to attacking Sandoval as a person. Accusing him of being high or anything like that isn't exactly a strong foundation on which to build an opinion.

[redsoxdirtdog]

This is the same stuff people were saying about Lackey and Lester after the debacle of a season that was 2012. If you recall, the following year, both of them played a somewhat important role in the World Series championship. I'm not saying Sandoval hasn't sucked so far. I'm not even saying that he might come back and be worthy of his contract, because I honestly don't believe he will. But I also think we can complain about the signing, his poor performance on the field, or his poor performance in the batter's box without resorting to attacking Sandoval as a person. Accusing him of being high or anything like that isn't exactly a strong foundation on which to build an opinion.

 

 

How about accusing him of quitting on his team? Would that be ok? How about accusing him of hanging all over his teammates with plurry droopy eyes in the midst od loss after loss after loss, seemingly oblivious to yet another epic losing season? Is that better? I understand that it makes some uncomfortable to hear an accusation, but if the guy was not high, i'm not sure what the hell was wrong with him last year? Was management clamoring to keep him around to the bitter end, or did they or did they not find a reason to let him walk before season's end? Sorry for reading between the lines! Of course, he sure proved me wrong by coming back fit, trim, & ready to rock in ST.....

 

Your so right Youk! How dare I cast such aspersions on a guy who has done so much for my beloved Red Sox! Mea culpa!

 

Cut the shyte! I hate to say that to one of my ALL TIME favorite dirtdog namsakes, but please! Spare me the feigned indignation. This is my f☆c&ing team, not his! He's done nothing to earn my respect! FAR LESS THAN NOTHING SO FAR!

 

Lackey? I brutalized him during that brewhaha! But I was his biggest fan day 1 of the next year! Panda comes back & puts in a Lackey 2013 effort??? I will be his biggest backer! Until then.... until he shows us some pride! Some Red Sox spirit? He will be a quitter to me. Either way, it's up to him. I don't need to prove a damned thing! It's all on him.

[redsoxdirtdog]

p.s. until he has put in 50 years, living, dying, blood, sweat, & tears for this team as I have, he can kiss my freckled Irish arss!

 

Of course, if he pulls a Lackey, & makes a comeback for the ages & helps us win another WS in 2017, I will gladly pay him to kiss his aarss!

 

[Dojji]

You are making a lot of assumptions about his character based on the fact that he is fat. That is what I am taking issue with.

 

See this is where you're wrong. We're not making assumptions about his character based merely on the fact that he is fat.

 

We are making assumptions on his character based on:

 

-- the fact that he is too fat to defend his position

-- the fact that the team asked him to lose weight over the offseason and instead he came into camp heavier than ever

-- the fact that this is not the first time there has been a disconnect between what Sandoval promised his team he would weigh, and what he did weigh when he made it to camp

-- and the fact that this comes in the wake of a season in which he was absolutely wretched on both sides of the ball, and if he'd had any professional pride that would be an incentive to work all the harder, which clearly doesn't seem to be the case in Pablo's head at the moment.

 

I for one don't have any problem with fat players. I do have problems with deceptive, lazy players who treat a career crisis like ho hum, c'est la vie and don't do what is necessary to improve their situation. He thought he could just play his way back into shape on the field this year, with the resulting drag on the team's performance from a player being out on the field who doesn't belong there. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy in his behavior and comportment but even so, that was a dick move.

 

Pablob was in no condition whatever to save his own job when Travis Shaw mounted a surprise challenge and took it from him to the point that when he tried to up his game earlier than he seems to have expected he'd have to, he got hurt at least twice, once a back strain, and once either creating or exacerbating his shoulder injury. The guy didn't do his job in the offseason, so he couldn't do his job when he needed to in the preseason or the regular season, and when a guy's being paid 8 figures and turns in an "effort" like that I don't think I'm alone in finding that incredibly disgusting.

 

One of the #1 jobs of any athlete in the offseason is to maintain their condition so that they can play effectively the following year and Pablo clearly did not even come close to accomplishing this.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Dojji

[Spudboy]

See this is where you're wrong. We're not making assumptions about his character based merely on the fact that he is fat.

 

We are making assumptions on his character based on:

 

-- the fact that he is too fat to defend his position

-- the fact that the team asked him to lose weight over the offseason and instead he came into camp heavier than ever

-- the fact that this is not the first time there has been a disconnect between what Sandoval promised his team he would weigh, and what he did weigh when he made it to camp

-- and the fact that this comes in the wake of a season in which he was absolutely wretched on both sides of the ball, and if he'd had any professional pride that would be an incentive to work all the harder, which clearly doesn't seem to be the case in Pablo's head at the moment.

 

I for one don't have any problem with fat players. I do have problems with deceptive, lazy players who treat a career crisis like ho hum, c'est la vie and don't do what is necessary to improve their situation. He thought he could just play his way back into shape on the field this year, with the resulting drag on the team's performance from a player being out on the field who doesn't belong there. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy in his behavior and comportment but even so, that was a dick move.

 

Pablob was in no condition whatever to save his own job when Travis Shaw mounted a surprise challenge and took it from him to the point that when he tried to up his game earlier than he seems to have expected he'd have to, he got hurt at least twice, once a back strain, and once either creating or exacerbating his shoulder injury. The guy didn't do his job in the offseason, so he couldn't do his job when he needed to in the preseason or the regular season, and when a guy's being paid 8 figures and turns in an "effort" like that I don't think I'm alone in finding that incredibly disgusting.

 

One of the #1 jobs of any athlete in the offseason is to maintain their condition so that they can play effectively the following year and Pablo clearly did not even come close to accomplishing this.

 

f***ing excellent post Dojji.