Red Sox Outfield 2016

[mvp 78]

Well, thus far we are clogged, and it won't change drastically moving forward, IMO.

Are they going to turn around and worth the money? That's really a tough question. IMO the only one who could have a chance to worth the money is Hanley and still we have to see it. Castillo could be an average OF at best, but does he worth that contract? C'mon!. Panda was a mistake since day one, and you know what I think about Porcello.

 

Imo, we aren't clogged and have shown no issues with being clogged. There is no guy on the AAA roster that is blocked that would be on the opening day roster otherwise. David Murphy was let go because they don't want 5 OFers who can't play any IF. It's a waste of a roster spot. Honestly, the difference between Castillo and Murphy at this point is very slim. Being willing to put anyone on the bench no matter the salary will prevent them from any clogging issues.

 

We're not clogged in the rotation. We're not clogged in the bullpen.

 

Where's the clog?

[iortiz]

an average starting OF who can play CF is probably worth $12M in 2016 dollars. The years are harder to swallow. Now Castillo was a bit of a reflection of management panic - something endemic of the post 2011 Sox. Think about it.

 

Step 1: Let go of guy because you have a young replacement

Step 2: Express confidence in new guy

Step 3: Sign ambulatory guy who was an MVP candidate 8 years ago for competition in March

Step 4: Give Step3 guy starting job based on march at-bats against future minor leaguer

Step 5: Cut Step3 guy because ... of course

Step 6: Sign Castillo because 300 ABs of new guy proved he stunk out loud

Step 7: Promote budding superstar who is killing AAA levels

 

Just a lot of reactionary moves without a real big picture in mind.

 

Exactly, and kind of my point.

 

IMO sk if you want an average OF, you don't have to go to the market. You look it in your farm, or you give the chance to a guy of your bench like Brock Holt who posted a 2.4 WAR last year and can play that position every day easily; but if you still wanted to get that value in the market (2 WAR OF), I'd look for a couple of low risk/high reward OFs.

 

Let's not fool ourselves, Castillo was not meant to be an average OF. If you ask me, they are expecting at least a good OF who can post 3-4 WAR through that contract.

[Dojji]

Brock Holt is not an average LF. And he's wasted as an everyday LF, that man can either be a mediocre starter or make a legend for himself off the bench, he's one of the few guys whose value increases as a 10th player. It would be an absolute pity to use Brock Holt as an everyday player.

 

I think that if Castillo can't get it done than it becomes imperative to go make a trade for a left fielder. If he can't hit he and Young are redundant on this roster. Squandering your bench depth isn't an option in this matter. go get a guy and use Holt the way he needs to be used.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Dojji

[iortiz]

Imo, we aren't clogged and have shown no issues with being clogged. There is no guy on the AAA roster that is blocked that would be on the opening day roster otherwise. David Murphy was let go because they don't want 5 OFers who can't play any IF. It's a waste of a roster spot. Honestly, the difference between Castillo and Murphy at this point is very slim. Being willing to put anyone on the bench no matter the salary will prevent them from any clogging issues.

 

We're not clogged in the rotation. We're not clogged in the bullpen.

 

Where's the clog?

IMO the clog thing is beyond the farm MVP. What I'm saying, is that you have to live with those contracts, and if they don't worth the money as you expected you won't have payroll flexibility to make a move in those spots. These days I think it's hard to find a team who could be interested in one of them and willing to eat those contracts.

[Dojji]

Soooooooooooo, dumb question, does anyone know if Sam Travis has ever played left field?

[Dojji]

IMO the clog thing is beyond the farm MVP. What I'm saying, is that you have to live with those contracts, and if they don't worth the money as you expected you won't have payroll flexibility to make a move in those spots. These days I think it's hard to find a team who could be interested in one of them and willing to eat those contracts.

 

Payroll flexibility is not a problem for the Boston Red sox. They can eat and DFA a contract if they have to they've done it before.

 

Another thing to think about: You know that if they do start Holt in left, they HAVE to send Castillo down. There's no way he sits on the bench occupying the same role they already have Young for when the Sox have to leverage their only backup infielder in the outfield as an everyday player, it would be asinine, and it would come back to bite them if Holt is tired and can't go when there's an injury (say, to Pedroia, who nobody will admit it, but we're already all on the Injury Watch in earnest with that man, no question). They WILL assign Castillo to AAA and bring up Marrero if they have so little confidence in his bat that Holt is seen as the better option in left field, because they NEED that depth and versatility far more than they need a guy they don't trust to play effectively in the field sitting around gathering dust and effectively limiting them to a 24 man roster. No sane team would put up with that indefinitely.

 

So assuming basic competency in the front office, Castillo is either traded, starting in left field, or assigned to AAA, very soon now.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Dojji

[iortiz]

Brock Holt is not an average LF. And he's wasted as an everyday LF, that man can either be a mediocre starter or make a legend for himself off the bench, he's one of the few guys whose value increases as a 10th player. It would be an absolute pity to use Brock Holt as an everyday player.

 

I think that if Castillo can't get it done than it becomes imperative to go make a trade for a left fielder. If he can't hit he and Young are redundant on this roster. Squandering your bench depth isn't an option in this matter. go get a guy and use Holt the way he needs to be used.

 

Probably you are right about Holt, or probably not. IDK. Honestly I would give him a chance, if I wanted an average OF, but that's me. Low risk/High reward. If he shits the bed, you could have payroll flexibility, thing that you could be losing with Castillo if he shits the bed.

 

On the other hand, if I wanted an average OF, I'd never ever give Castillo's contract to anyone. I would use another strategy.

[Dojji]

I have no doubt in Holt's talents. He could probably put up 1.5-2 WAR starting in left field if he had to. If it was all about Holt, that might be an OK way to use him, but from a team perspective it makes zero sense. It's a waste of his abilities and a threat to our depth to go through with Holt as a longterm LF. A few weeks is fine. Holt starting in left field is a bluff move to bring a trading partner's price down however, it is not a real longterm full season option as it is not a good use of his talent by the team.

[iortiz]

Payroll flexibility is not a problem for the Boston Red sox. They can eat and DFA a contract if they have to they've done it before.

 

Another thing to think about: You know that if they do start Holt in left, they HAVE to send Castillo down. There's no way he sits on the bench occupying the same role they already have Young for when the Sox have to leverage their only backup infielder in the outfield as an everyday player, it would be asinine, and it would come back to bite them if he's tired and can't go when there's an injury. They WILL assign Castillo to AAA and bring up Marrero if they have so little confidence in his bat that Holt is seen as the better option in left field, because they NEED that depth and versatility far more than they need a guy they don't trust to play effectively in the field sitting around gathering dust and effectively limiting them to a 24 man roster. No sane team would put up with that indefinitely.

 

So assuming basic competency in the front office, Castillo is either traded, starting in left field, or assigned to AAA, very soon now.

LOL! Well, if that's the case, and quoting Bob Marley.. don't worry, everything is going to be alright.

 

I don't think it's that easy or true Doji. If that were the case why in the hell aren't Lester and/or Scherzer here already?

 

While they are a big market team, I think they have boundaries.

 

Also, the Holt thing is a supposition considering that Castillo weren't in your roster.

[User Name]

Holt playing LF has nothing to do with payroll flexibility either way. Castillo will be making his full salary whether he plays or not. The payroll situation is what it is right now. Any variable would have to come from outside.

[iortiz]

Holt playing LF has nothing to do with payroll flexibility either way. Castillo will be making his full salary whether he plays or not. The payroll situation is what it is right now. Any variable would have to come from outside.

 

LOL! I don't think you are following us. Brock Holt is actually irrelevant. What I'm saying is that he could be an option among 10000 if you wanted an average OF.

[mvp 78]

Soooooooooooo, dumb question, does anyone know if Sam Travis has ever played left field?

 

Only 1b professionally.

[mvp 78]

I have no doubt in Holt's talents. He could probably put up 1.5-2 WAR starting in left field if he had to. If it was all about Holt, that might be an OK way to use him, but from a team perspective it makes zero sense. It's a waste of his abilities and a threat to our depth to go through with Holt as a longterm LF. A few weeks is fine. Holt starting in left field is a bluff move to bring a trading partner's price down however, it is not a real longterm full season option as it is not a good use of his talent by the team.

 

Beninturdi will be in the OF in 2 years (maybe sooner). Holt and a platoon can get by for that long.

[mvp 78]

So assuming basic competency in the front office, Castillo is either traded, starting in left field, or assigned to AAA, very soon now.

 

I don't think they'd do that. They'd be SOL if an OF got injured and would have too much IF redundancy. They need to have at least 5 people on the roster (excluding Shaw) that can play OF. If they demoted Castillo, they'd only have 4.

[cp176]

Brock Holt is not an average LF. And he's wasted as an everyday LF, that man can either be a mediocre starter or make a legend for himself off the bench, he's one of the few guys whose value increases as a 10th player. It would be an absolute pity to use Brock Holt as an everyday player.

 

I think that if Castillo can't get it done than it becomes imperative to go make a trade for a left fielder. If he can't hit he and Young are redundant on this roster. Squandering your bench depth isn't an option in this matter. go get a guy and use Holt the way he needs to be used.

 

For what it's worth, I really agree with you about Holt. My next statement might seem ridiculous but oh well - I would feel much better if Benintendi was our starting left fielder right now and Holt continued to be the outstanding utility player that he is. If Holt looks like in fact he will be the man out there for the time being then - Travis - Shaw - Swihart - Moncada - Benintendi- ???- all of the above to be shagging some fly balls.

[mvp 78]

For what it's worth, I really agree with you about Holt. My next statement might seem ridiculous but oh well - I would feel much better if Benintendi was our starting left fielder right now and Holt continued to be the outstanding utility player that he is. If Holt looks like in fact he will be the man out there for the time being then - Travis - Shaw - Swihart - Moncada - Benintendi- ???- all of the above to be shagging some fly balls.

 

Of those 5, realistically only Moncada and Beninturdi should be shagging fly balls. We'll need a 1b and 3b next year, so moving Shaw and Travis around is a waste. Swihart still needs to be kept at C until it's determined that Vazquez is the guy.

[a700hitter]

You keep saying they have "clogged up roster positions" when it's clear they haven't. Stop making that point, it's clearly incorrect. The fact is, they have clogged up payroll, and even as a big market team, they are feeling the effects. They may have been able to get another starter this offseason were they not saddled with Panda/Castillo. I will go on the record saying I think they can still recoup value from Castillo, but we'll see.

Clogged up payroll in this case directly results in a clogged up roster. Do you seriously think that they would not want to move Sandoval or Castillo at this point? I am sure that they have tried to move both, but they would have to eat almost their entire contracts. I would not be surprised if they had also made every effort to move Hanley, but after last year's disaster, no one would want him. So, yes, I think the payroll clog has also clogged up the roster. Do we need a fat toad on the bench who is making $17.5 million? I'd rather have another utility type with a plus glove and some speed.

 

Edit: Plus, as far as I can see, Castillo has no role on this team. He is just taking up a spot.

[User Name]

Clogged up payroll in this case directly results in a clogged up roster. Do you seriously think that they would not want to move Sandoval or Castillo at this point? I am sure that they have tried to move both, but they would have to eat almost their entire contracts. I would not be surprised if they had also made every effort to move Hanley, but after last year's disaster, no one would want him. So, yes, I think the payroll clog has also clogged up the roster. Do we need a fat toad on the bench who is making $17.5 million? I'd rather have another utility type with a plus glove and some speed.

 

Edit: Plus, as far as I can see, Castillo has no role on this team. He is just taking up a spot.

 

A clogged out roster means problems with the allocation of positions in said roster. There is no such problem here. And also, as you have said many times, this is a team that cannot claim poverty, especially with some significant expenses coming off the books after this year. They don't have roster problems, that is a rationalization you're making in order to magnify the problems (which are real) Cherington left behind.

[sk7326]

For what it's worth, I really agree with you about Holt. My next statement might seem ridiculous but oh well - I would feel much better if Benintendi was our starting left fielder right now and Holt continued to be the outstanding utility player that he is. If Holt looks like in fact he will be the man out there for the time being then - Travis - Shaw - Swihart - Moncada - Benintendi- ???- all of the above to be shagging some fly balls.

 

Benintendi has been out of the SEC for less than a year. I would not be stunned if he does have a chance to make a big league impact this season, but not betting anything at all. Moncada too - just because of the probability he will flat outgrow the infield.

 

Castillo should be getting ABs - but I think the LF situation is a lot more fluid than 3B. Now one potential reading of this is that now Farrell can stop answering questions about Castillo and give him turns with lower pressure - and let the situation iron itself out. But me, I'd start him in AAA.

[cp176]

We are all a little guilty of "reading between the lines" here but that is what makes the forum fun for me. I'm pretty sure that Holt is not the answer to who they want as an everyday left fielder. I am also not sure that shaw is what they want as a third baseman moving forward. At some point they will have to decide really where they want Moncada to play(3rd?). When will Benintendi move on up. Devers, Chavis and even Travis. Where will Swihart ultimately end up? For the record , i do agree that if Castillo is not moved he needs to play somewhere in order to find out if he can play.

[a700hitter]

A clogged out roster means problems with the allocation of positions in said roster. There is no such problem here. And also, as you have said many times, this is a team that cannot claim poverty, especially with some significant expenses coming off the books after this year. They don't have roster problems, that is a rationalization you're making in order to magnify the problems (which are real) Cherington left behind.

Although I am putting those big money bust moves in the worst light, there is some roster clog this year. We really need to carry another middle infielder type. Holt is not enough. There is no room for another middle infielder. Castillo truly has no position on this team if Bradley is going to play full time. Castillo is not going to be part of a righty/righty platoon with Young. And in the next 2 years, these useless contracts will be standing in the way of the progress of some farmhands. Speaking of current roster clog in 2016, what is Alan Craig's role in this organization. He hit well in Spring Training. If he continues hitting .300+ in Pawtucket, what happens with him? Edited April 1, 2016 by a700hitter

[Dojji]

Actually no prospect looking to graduate within the next 2 years is blocked by an overpaid veteran. The only "clog" is at the catcher's position, where a very good but not exactly overpaid vet is trying to hang on for one more year before the 2 highly talented young players jostle him off the roster. Every other field position is either set for awhile with no new talent coming soon, already occupied by a young player, or in the case of first base, we're in a position to easily ease the incumbent out if the the youngster we expect to play there in the future develops up to expectations and is ready to go.

 

The only potential clog was Sandoval actually, and Travis Shaw beat him out cleanly in a fair competition. Shaw himself won the job because we have very little big league depth behind him so the job may be his for awhile if he can keep it -- I have my doubts but we'll se.

 

if anything there's a couple positions where we could stand to bring in a veteran upgrade. My concerns about third base aside, I'll name left field and the #2 spot in the rotation for example, and one more veteran reliever wouldn't have hurt anything for that matter.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Dojji

[jung]

Although I am putting those big money bust moves in the worst light, there is some roster clog this year. We really need to carry another middle infielder type. Holt is not enough. There is no room for another middle infielder. Castillo truly has no position on this team if Bradley is going to play full time. Castillo is not going to be part of a righty/righty platoon with Young. And in the next 2 years, these useless contracts will be standing in the way of the progress of some farmhands. Speaking of current roster clog in 2016, what is Alan Craig's role in this organization. He hit well in Spring Training. If he continues hitting .300+ in Pawtucket, what happens with him?

 

I can't say what Craig's role is or might be....but I don't think his BA will get him very far. He is mostly hitting seeing eye dribblers. Has not hit much solid all spring. Remy going on about "this is how Craig hit in St L is not helping his cause nor do I believe it to be the case when he was producing runs. He has hit a few opposite field "shots" on really defensive swings but you can't live off those and a steady diet of dribblers.

[Kimmi]

Castillo, Porcello, Hanley, and Pablo are 4 useless contracts up to this point. We have optimism about Hanley now that he is back in the IF, and Porcello still has an outside chance of earning his money, but they have used up a ton of payroll and clogged up the roster-- 4 high paid players with negative value is a ton of mistakes. These bad decisions have not crippled the Red Sox because they are a big market team, but they have hamstrung their other roster moves to some extent and clogged roster positions.

 

They are "clogging them up" even more by not giving Pablo and Castillo a chance. It might be a different story if they were in the last year of their contracts, but they aren't. Regardless, you are the one that's always saying that the Red Sox are a big market team and that they won't be hamstrung by big contracts.

[Kimmi]

Henry gave the go ahead for Price and Kimbrel because he was willing to have the highest payroll in team history and pay a fairly large chunk of luxury tax.

 

Sure, but why was he willing to do that? Because he knew that doing so would not cripple the team long term because of the cost-controlled players that are currently on the team and the ones that are 1-3 years away.

[Kimmi]

Imo, we aren't clogged and have shown no issues with being clogged. There is no guy on the AAA roster that is blocked that would be on the opening day roster otherwise. David Murphy was let go because they don't want 5 OFers who can't play any IF. It's a waste of a roster spot. Honestly, the difference between Castillo and Murphy at this point is very slim. Being willing to put anyone on the bench no matter the salary will prevent them from any clogging issues.

 

We're not clogged in the rotation. We're not clogged in the bullpen.

 

Where's the clog?

 

Of course we're not clogged.

 

Having to eat large contracts is not something that any team should get into the habit of doing. It's terrible business. But the philosophy that Henry and Dombrowski are currently operating under means that there are no clogs.

 

Just another excuse to gripe about Ben.

 

#BringBenBack

[Kimmi]

Brock Holt is not an average LF. And he's wasted as an everyday LF, that man can either be a mediocre starter or make a legend for himself off the bench, he's one of the few guys whose value increases as a 10th player. It would be an absolute pity to use Brock Holt as an everyday player.

 

I think that if Castillo can't get it done than it becomes imperative to go make a trade for a left fielder. If he can't hit he and Young are redundant on this roster. Squandering your bench depth isn't an option in this matter. go get a guy and use Holt the way he needs to be used.

 

I don't know where the recent great Dojji posts are coming from, but I like it.

 

In addition to weakening the bench by making Holt a starter, Pablo is virtually useless as a bench player.

[Kimmi]

I don't think they'd do that. They'd be SOL if an OF got injured and would have too much IF redundancy. They need to have at least 5 people on the roster (excluding Shaw) that can play OF. If they demoted Castillo, they'd only have 4.

 

This is the reason they should have kept Murphy, so that Castillo could be sent to AAA.

[Kimmi]

A clogged out roster means problems with the allocation of positions in said roster. There is no such problem here. And also, as you have said many times, this is a team that cannot claim poverty, especially with some significant expenses coming off the books after this year. They don't have roster problems, that is a rationalization you're making in order to magnify the problems (which are real) Cherington left behind.

 

^^This.

[a700hitter]

They are "clogging them up" even more by not giving Pablo and Castillo a chance. It might be a different story if they were in the last year of their contracts, but they aren't. Regardless, you are the one that's always saying that the Red Sox are a big market team and that they won't be hamstrung by big contracts.

I have said that a big contract i.e., David Price would not cripple us or hamstring us if it turns bad. However, Ben loaded us up with several bad/useless contracts Hanley $88 million, Panda $90 million, Porcello $82.5 million, Castillo $72 million and Craig $26 million -- for a whopping total of $348.5 million. While it will not cripple the Red Sox, the magnitude and number of bad deals do impact payroll and roster flexibility, and it is much easier to buy out one bad deal as part of a trade than to deal with the current situation. The rest of baseball doesn't want these guys at any price.