2016 Starting Rotation

[Dojji]

I think they'd want the one with MLB experience, UN, that's why I feel they'd insist on Eddie

[User Name]

I think they'd want the one with MLB experience, UN, that's why I feel they'd insist on Eddie

 

In this situation, they'd be completely selling if they traded Sale, their main pitcher. I'd think they'd go for the upside play if they were hypothetically rebuilding.

[Dojji]

If they could use a trade to rebuild their offense which is absolutely terrible outside Jose Abreu, and replace Sale with a reasonably talented pitcher who could provide a solid fraction of what Sale gave them and had at least 1 additional year of control, they'd probably improve both their short and longterm upside at the same time.

[User Name]

But who do you offer that's a proven offensive performer to upgrade their offense right now? If the Sox have to deal from their stable of young MLB players, then the deal doesn't make sense. You don't weaken a position to improve another.

[Spudboy]

Agree with Dojji's assesment of the price (not so sure they'd be so insistent on Eddie instead of Espinoza, but still). However, I personally wouldn't pay the price considering the injury history for pitchers who throw using inverted W mechanics. Especially for someone who is already experiencing some (albeit minor) difficulties with his elbow.

 

I really doubt that Sale will be dealt for whatever price. However, your suggestion of getting Gray also sounds good. Bean loves high ceiling prospects.

 

Something should be done. This staff is a f***ing joke that will most likely implode. Then what?

[Dojji]

But who do you offer that's a proven offensive performer to upgrade their offense right now? If the Sox have to deal from their stable of young MLB players, then the deal doesn't make sense. You don't weaken a position to improve another.

 

What about weakening one position to improve as many as 3?

[Palodios]

Ben and Double D both made calls about Gray and Sale. Those guys just aren't available at any reasonable price.

 

Remember when Theo told Seattle they could "pick any five" for Felix and got turned down? Probably a similar situation here.

[cp176]

But who do you offer that's a proven offensive performer to upgrade their offense right now? If the Sox have to deal from their stable of young MLB players, then the deal doesn't make sense. You don't weaken a position to improve another.

 

I doubt that anything happens - all hypothetical but still interesting. In the current projected outfield this year, I would be ok with a trade of anyone not named Betts. I am ambivalent about Castillo and as much as I like JBJ out there I see him as being replaceable. In the infield I think you have to protect Bogaerts and at least one of the catchers. If I were trading with the Red Sox, I would actually take a chance on Moncada, Benintendi, and Travis. Some would probably prefer them to the guys we call proven m/leaguers. I'm not sure what any of them have actually proven. We are still kind of waiting. i agree with you about Sale's unorthodox delivery. It just doesn't look like it is built to last.

[mvp 78]

I really doubt that Sale will be dealt for whatever price. However, your suggestion of getting Gray also sounds good. Bean loves high ceiling prospects.

 

Something should be done. This staff is a f***ing joke that will most likely implode. Then what?

 

They were hoping ERod became a #2 and that they could fast track Espinoza in a few years.

[User Name]

What about weakening one position to improve as many as 3?

 

Not for them, for us. Of course it makes sense for them. How did you infer I was talking about them from my post? You need new reading glasses.

[iortiz]

I'm all for it. I just don't see the Sox going anywhere with this rotation until they get a #2.

 

Obviously with Sale the Sox would have two #1s!!!

 

Send Moncada and Espinosa and let them choose two B prospects.

 

They would probably want Travis for the stated reasons.

 

Throw in Craig and eat some of his deal.

 

Boom. Playoff bound.

 

 

Edit: Waiting for the deadline is just stupid. This team will be done by then.

 

The time to correct a problem is when you realize that there is a problem. That is functional management.

 

Of course we all saw that this rotation was s*** prior to last season. Even with the addition of Price there just is no quality 2-5.

 

I don't give a f*** what projections have been made by any experts.

 

As one of my favorite conservative always says "It's all about pitching". Or something like that. I've had enough of last place and Farrell's excuses.

 

The time to start winning is now.

 

Of course my choice of Moncada is complicated by that fat contract of his. So send Binintendi or Travis.

Well, I totally agree with this. We need a No. 2 badly, otherwise we are a WC contender at very best.

[Dojji]

Not for them, for us. Of course it makes sense for them. How did you infer I was talking about them from my post? You need new reading glasses.

 

But who do you offer that's a proven offensive performer to upgrade their offense right now? If the Sox have to deal from their stable of young MLB players, then the deal doesn't make sense. You don't weaken a position to improve another.

 

Phrases that could have referred to either team under discussion in bold.

[Bellhorn04]

If Porcello and Buch both suck, we've got problems.

[Dojji]

most teams have problems if 2 of their 3 top pitchers suck. You're presuming a failure condition then predicting failure. This is not a surprising result.

[Bellhorn04]

most teams have problems if 2 of their 3 top pitchers suck. You're presuming a failure condition then predicting failure. This is not a surprising result.

 

What I mean is, the idea that we need a #2 sort of presupposes that Porcello and Buch will suck.

[Dojji]

thus what I mean about presuming failure in order to predict it.

 

I'm all done with Buchholz, I could never see him in a Red Sox uniform again and that would be just fine, and I actually would love to see him replaced with another arm (which is what *I* mean when I say we need another starter) but I do hold out some hope for Porcello. He's been very solid in the past.

[User Name]

Phrases that could have referred to either team under discussion in bold.

 

The Sox deal from young MLB players for Sale, which was the point of the discussion. There's literally no two ways to interpret it. In that case, I'm clearly referring to moving Betts/ Bogaerts (weakening SS or OF) to strengthen SP. Next time, I'll spell it out. Jesus.

[User Name]

What I mean is, the idea that we need a #2 sort of presupposes that Porcello and Buch will suck.

 

No, they are not mutually exclusive. They can all pitch to career averages, but we can end up with a problem spot in the rotation, and no viable protection against injury. In my opinion, it's not necessarily a #2, but rather a mid-rotation guy who can take the bump, because 2/5 of the rotation (Kelly and Buch) are injury prone, Erod is currently injured and Porcello was terrible last year (even though I expect him to rebound). Hedging bets was important here.

[Bellhorn04]

You can never have enough pitching, that's for sure. I'm just not surprised they stopped where they did. We already have the highest payroll in team history and the asking price in trades was likely ridiculous.

[Kimmi]

You can never have enough pitching, that's for sure. I'm just not surprised they stopped where they did. We already have the highest payroll in team history and the asking price in trades was likely ridiculous.

 

I'm not surprised they stopped where they did either.

 

As I said last preseason, I also think that in many ways it makes more sense to wait until midseason to make any additional moves. At that point, you have a much better idea of what the team's needs will be for the remainder of the season.

[mvp 78]

You can never have enough pitching, that's for sure. I'm just not surprised they stopped where they did. We already have the highest payroll in team history and the asking price in trades was likely ridiculous.

 

Tickets and concessions are also highest in team history.

[Bellhorn04]

Tickets and concessions are also highest in team history.

 

Understood. But the Sox payroll this year will be about $15 million over the luxury tax threshold, and that doesn't even include Moncada or Craig. You can't expect more spending than that IMHO.

[mvp 78]

Understood. But the Sox payroll this year will be about $15 million over the luxury tax threshold, and that doesn't even include Moncada or Craig. You can't expect more spending than that IMHO.

 

Why not? They haven't gone bankrupt yet. I don't know how much more is in the budget for salaries. I think being in the dumps the past few years could get them to bump up the payroll a bit.

[Bellhorn04]

Why not? They haven't gone bankrupt yet. I don't know how much more is in the budget for salaries. I think being in the dumps the past few years could get them to bump up the payroll a bit.

 

Can't completely forget about the luxury tax though. The taxes will get crazy if they go way over the limit a few years in a row.

[mvp 78]

I realize this, but none of us really know how much they can afford. It's all just conjecture.

[User Name]

But it's an educated guess to assume they could have added another mid-range contract to sign a guy like Kazmir, Gallardo or Fister (semi dumpster-dive) for a short term to help cover some innings at a palatable price. I don't really like any of those guys, but they all came relatively cheap, and could have protected against injury/ineffectiveness for 1-2 years.

[Spudboy]

The budget is less of a concern if the Sox make smart personnel moves.

 

They have not spent very wisely recently. Now they are at their limit or above it after adding necessary and good pieces.

 

Lop off the Pablo, Hanley, and Porcello deals and they are functionally about the same team.

[User Name]

Then you're missing two starters instead of one, and a 1B AND a 3B. Assuming Porcello and Hanley don't flat out suck, no they're not. And who knows with Panda. He looks cooked on D, but the bat is waking up.

[mvp 78]

If you dump Pablo, it's because you have a viable replacement (Shaw?) or are able to bring back a piece to help somewhere else (Shields?).

[cp176]

Why not? They haven't gone bankrupt yet. I don't know how much more is in the budget for salaries. I think being in the dumps the past few years could get them to bump up the payroll a bit.

 

I think that it is safe to say they won't go bankrupt either. Maybe they have figured out that the Porcello and the Sandoval contracts for sure look ridiculous in hindsight. One or even both may still help us but the contracts are ridiculous in terms of years and $ promised. I'm hoping that the emphasis is now on the number of wins the team can produce with less focus on the numbers on the paychecks. Porcello very well could be serviceable as a 4th or 5th man in the rotation for years to come. Sandoval on the other hand is competing for a job. No one owes him anything. If he doesn't earn the right to be out there, he won't be out there. On the other hand, if he produces and outplays the competition he should start.