DD vs. Cherington

[chicubs]

Let's about about the moves DD has made before the 2016 season vs. the moves Cherington mad before the 2015 season.

 

Which executive made the better transactions?

 

Will the Red Sox be a better team?

 

Has DD leveraged the financial capabilities and the Sox's farm system better? (Source in question: http://thearmchairallamericans.com/2015/12/04/boston-red-sox-flex-their-might/)

 

Also, do you think Theo would've made the same moves?

[Dojji]

It is way too early to have this thread. It needs to be at least halfway through the season before we even have meaningful data on DD, and without that we're comparing a track record on one side with nothing but hope on the other, and that's not fair.

[Kimmi]

I can tell you right now that the vote will be in favor of Dombrowski, by an overwhelming margin.

 

I am not unhappy with the moves that Dombrowski has made to date, despite being critical of the package given up for Kimbrel and not liking the contract given to Price. I am very happy to have both players on the team, and I am very optimistic about the Sox' playoff chances this year.

 

I think Dombrowski's transactions will have a far greater short term impact on the team, in a positive way, than Ben's did, 2013 aside. We'll have to wait and see what else Dombrowski does both this offseason and in the next couple of years to see what the long term impact will be.

 

For Dombrowski, so far so good.

[mvp 78]

Cherington's 2014 and 2015 offseasons were terrible. He had a great 2013 one though.

[Elktonnick]

Its way too early to make any judgments about Dumbrowski except that he has had a good opening act. But as any playwright knows many a show has closed early because the second act was weak and the third act was worse. I prefer to wait until I've seen the entire play before writing a final review.

[Bellhorn04]

Its way too early to make any judgments about Dumbrowski except that he has had a good opening act.

 

nick, why are you spelling it Dumbrowski - not a fan?

[cp176]

I very much like the fact that we have a GM with a solid track who is experienced. I know that it is very selfish and personal but when I see moves made that I think should have been made and need to be made, I like it. I think that that is natural enough. I believe that he will address needs that we have without sacrificing the future. I really like what he has done so far.

[Elktonnick]

nick, why are you spelling it Dumbrowski - not a fan?

 

Because since I retired I can no longer afford to have my administrative assistant work weekends.

[reYoukilis]

I believe in the 2013 version of Cherington and if we have success this year we can still thank him with XB, Betts, JBJ and much of the pitching that was finally starting to come together. So far what DD has done was needed. I dont like buying success but we needed an ace, bullpen help and another bat and hes done that. Lets not make any big dollar purchaces. I dont want to be the Nationals.

[Kimmi]

I believe in the 2013 version of Cherington and if we have success this year we can still thank him with XB, Betts, JBJ and much of the pitching that was finally starting to come together. So far what DD has done was needed. I dont like buying success but we needed an ace, bullpen help and another bat and hes done that. Lets not make any big dollar purchaces. I dont want to be the Nationals.

 

It is necessary to make big dollar purchase sometimes. It is also sometimes necessary to trade away prospects to fill holes. Acquiring big name players through free agency or trades should not become the norm though.

 

It is really rather amazing that the Sox have recently graduated so many players, yet still have one of the top farm systems in baseball.

[cp176]

It is necessary to make big dollar purchase sometimes. It is also sometimes necessary to trade away prospects to fill holes. Acquiring big name players through free agency or trades should not become the norm though.

 

It is really rather amazing that the Sox have recently graduated so many players, yet still have one of the top farm systems in baseball.

 

I don't think that it is amazing. I think that it is a job well done!

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox have also had the aid of some last place finishes as well, since Benintendi had no shot of falling to Boston had they been competitive. The sox have positional player development down. They still have something to learn about all types of pitching development

[cp176]

We will get a chance to see - Espinoza, Kopech, Johnson, I would even throw Owens in here.

[jacksonianmarch]

Espinosa is the only one I think could be truly special and he is a long ways away. Not a believer that Kopech will end up a starter and Johnson and Owens look like Miley type guys at best

[sk7326]

This a weirdly early thread - especially since their jobs are somewhat different. (Dombrowski's is a narrow but very important subset of Cherington's)

 

Really all that has shifted is ownership priorities - that much is obvious. Dombrowski is making a lot of moves, pablum for the chat board posters and whatnot. What is obvious is that the 2016 Red Sox are on paper better than the 2015 one. Of course that was true about 2015 relative to 2014. Specific moves?

 

Kimbrel - good pickup at an unreasonably steep price. High risk - because relievers go belly up quickly and unpredictably, but if you gotta do it, Kimbrel is a good hoss to back

Price - excellent pickup at a very reasonable price. Modest risk - he'll have to learn how to pitch with lesser stuff for the deal to be a homerun, but even 3 "David Price" seasons is plenty

Young - excellent pickup at reasonable price. Platoon masher. If Farrell is creative there are 300 PAs for him.

Carson Smith - solid pickup at a price which seems ok. Miley was not in the Sox plans - then getting a quality setup arm makes sense. Roenis Elias is another swingman candidate, although he could be a lefty killer in the pen too.

 

The question about Dombrowski will be whether he leeches the system dry for a relatively short window of opportunity ... that is largely inconclusive. But the team has gotten better without sacrificing much of its real premium future. There will always be questions (vis a vis the Kimbrel trade) whether the prospect assets have been optimized in deals, but no matter.

 

This has been a B+ offseason so far.

[cp176]

Espinosa is the only one I think could be truly special and he is a long ways away. Not a believer that Kopech will end up a starter and Johnson and Owens look like Miley type guys at best

 

Having a lot of Miley type guys I imagine is a very good thing. You get a lot of average possibly better than average innings. They are needed. Not many teams have an abundance of them. As for Espinoza, honestly who knows? My point here is that I have heard numerous times from many posters on talksox how solid our farm system is. If they are right, 3 of our top 6 prospects are now starting pitchers. That trends toward good things.

[cp176]

This a weirdly early thread - especially since their jobs are somewhat different. (Dombrowski's is a narrow but very important subset of Cherington's)

 

Really all that has shifted is ownership priorities - that much is obvious. Dombrowski is making a lot of moves, pablum for the chat board posters and whatnot. What is obvious is that the 2016 Red Sox are on paper better than the 2015 one. Of course that was true about 2015 relative to 2014. Specific moves?

 

Kimbrel - good pickup at an unreasonably steep price. High risk - because relievers go belly up quickly and unpredictably, but if you gotta do it, Kimbrel is a good hoss to back

Price - excellent pickup at a very reasonable price. Modest risk - he'll have to learn how to pitch with lesser stuff for the deal to be a homerun, but even 3 "David Price" seasons is plenty

Young - excellent pickup at reasonable price. Platoon masher. If Farrell is creative there are 300 PAs for him.

Carson Smith - solid pickup at a price which seems ok. Miley was not in the Sox plans - then getting a quality setup arm makes sense. Roenis Elias is another swingman candidate, although he could be a lefty killer in the pen too.

 

The question about Dombrowski will be whether he leeches the system dry for a relatively short window of opportunity ... that is largely inconclusive. But the team has gotten better without sacrificing much of its real premium future. There will always be questions (vis a vis the Kimbrel trade) whether the prospect assets have been optimized in deals, but no matter.

 

This has been a B+ offseason so far.

 

I'm really not into the comparison mode. I just like people like Dombrowski. He saw needs, he told everyone what he felt the needs were, he has addressed them. Will all of the moves work out well - maybe. He gets an A form me but I probably was an easy grader. Hopefully, he has a few more moves to make.

[GomesBeard]

I'm really not into the comparison mode. I just like people like Dombrowski. He saw needs, he told everyone what he felt the needs were, he has addressed them. Will all of the moves work out well - maybe. He gets an A form me but I probably was an easy grader. Hopefully, he has a few more moves to make.

 

Too early for me to tell, but I agree with this sentiment in terms of his approach. No screwing around. No dithering. Determine your needs and fill them. I like it.

[Elktonnick]

This a weirdly early thread - especially since their jobs are somewhat different. (Dombrowski's is a narrow but very important subset of Cherington's)

 

Really all that has shifted is ownership priorities - that much is obvious. Dombrowski is making a lot of moves, pablum for the chat board posters and whatnot. What is obvious is that the 2016 Red Sox are on paper better than the 2015 one. Of course that was true about 2015 relative to 2014. Specific moves?

 

Kimbrel - good pickup at an unreasonably steep price. High risk - because relievers go belly up quickly and unpredictably, but if you gotta do it, Kimbrel is a good hoss to back

Price - excellent pickup at a very reasonable price. Modest risk - he'll have to learn how to pitch with lesser stuff for the deal to be a homerun, but even 3 "David Price" seasons is plenty

Young - excellent pickup at reasonable price. Platoon masher. If Farrell is creative there are 300 PAs for him.

Carson Smith - solid pickup at a price which seems ok. Miley was not in the Sox plans - then getting a quality setup arm makes sense. Roenis Elias is another swingman candidate, although he could be a lefty killer in the pen too.

 

The question about Dombrowski will be whether he leeches the system dry for a relatively short window of opportunity ... that is largely inconclusive. But the team has gotten better without sacrificing much of its real premium future. There will always be questions (vis a vis the Kimbrel trade) whether the prospect assets have been optimized in deals, but no matter.

 

This has been a B+ offseason so far.

 

You lost me when you said that DD's job is a narrow but important subset of Cherrington's. I believe Dombrowski has more real authority over baseball operations than Lucchino et al ever allowed Ben.

[sk7326]

You lost me when you said that DD's job is a narrow but important subset of Cherrington's. I believe Dombrowski has more real authority over baseball operations than Lucchino et al ever allowed Ben.

 

I agree that ownership priorities changed.

 

Also - some truth there, but I don't think Dombrowski really is going to manage a lot of the other parts of the operation (say, the draft, international FA) ... his job is the major league roster, which is the most important bit of course

[Elktonnick]

I agree that ownership priorities changed.

 

Also - some truth there, but I don't think Dombrowski really is going to manage a lot of the other parts of the operation (say, the draft, international FA) ... his job is the major league roster, which is the most important bit of course

 

Of course he is going to manage the draft and international FA. he won't do the mundane tasks related to all those but he'll make all the important decisions. He is the chief of baseball operations and all that entails.

[Kimmi]

The question about Dombrowski will be whether he leeches the system dry for a relatively short window of opportunity ... that is largely inconclusive. But the team has gotten better without sacrificing much of its real premium future. There will always be questions (vis a vis the Kimbrel trade) whether the prospect assets have been optimized in deals, but no matter.

 

That sums it up pretty nicely.

[OriginalUsername]

As a Tigers fan who has watched Dombrowski his entire career with the Tigers, I will say he rarely comes up on the wrong side of a trade. Yes the Tigers have traded many prospects, but rarely did this prospects amount to anything. Yes the Tigers farm system was always near the bottom of the league but the Tigers always managed to trade for the players they needed. There was also a lot of pressure from ownership to win a title. Dombrowski took a 119 loss team and had them in the World Series in three years and a perennial playoff contender. He also has a knack for finding players on other teams who were underwhelming and making them into stars like Guillen, Polanco, Peralta, Edwin Jackson, Fister, Iglesias, JD Martinez to name a few. He also traded for Scherzer before he was elite, got Cabrera for nothing, and was able to dump Fielder's salary and get a 5 win player. The Fielder signing was all Mike Illitch.

 

Downsides are the complete inability to build a respectable bullpen. For the most part, the Tigers had a decent closer but it was nauseating relying on the likes of Joba Chmberlain and Tom Gorzelany heading into the season. This despite the fact he has drafted a number of relievers in the first round who have never amounted to anything. His drafting has not been great but he is great at trading prospects before they lose value. I think Dombrowski is the perfect guy for a team with a big payroll who wants to contend. He has also proven he can rebuild teams in Florida and Montreal as well.

[cp176]

He fits very well in Boston. We have needed someone with his strengths and and we seem to have people that can cover his weaknesses. So far so good.

[Spudboy]

I think Dombrtowski looks like a Sales Manager at a Car dealership.

[Kimmi]

Dombrowski has done a great job for the short term outlook of this team.

 

It remains to be seen how things will work out for the long term. So far, so good.

[Redsoxgirl51282]

Personally Dave could be a little nicer. I registered for Christmas at Fenway and did not get chosen even though I am a RSN member. I ended up going when they opened it up to public at one. On my way out I went into the souvenir store and happen to see Dave in there as well. He was apparently Christmas shopping. People were going up to him asking for photos and autographs, and I thought about talking to him too. He was getting increasingly frustrated with everyone and was wicked rude. I felt like saying why the heck would you come in here knowing full well you were gonna get heckled by fans. He is the president he could of had the sox open the store earlier for just him only.

[Kimmi]

Personally Dave could be a little nicer. I registered for Christmas at Fenway and did not get chosen even though I am a RSN member. I ended up going when they opened it up to public at one. On my way out I went into the souvenir store and happen to see Dave in there as well. He was apparently Christmas shopping. People were going up to him asking for photos and autographs, and I thought about talking to him too. He was getting increasingly frustrated with everyone and was wicked rude. I felt like saying why the heck would you come in here knowing full well you were gonna get heckled by fans. He is the president he could of had the sox open the store earlier for just him only.

 

I'm sure Ben would have been a lot nicer.

[User Name]

I met DD at an event the Tigers held at WMU when I went there and he was very gracious, pleasant and patient. He's a human being like the rest of us, and was probably caught on a bad day.

[a700hitter]

I'm sure Ben would have been a lot nicer.

One time I saw Ben kick a dog.