DD vs. Cherington

[Kimmi]

Anyways, since Avila took over the Tigers, we are learning the Tigers never even had an analytics department under Dombrowski. Hopefully he doesn't cut back the analytics with the Red Sox.

 

This is one of my concerns with Dombrowski. So far, he has refrained from any major shake up within the organization, but we'll see how it goes.

[Kimmi]

On a related note, for anyone who has any doubt about whether FOs are looking at things like Fangraphs projections, from the horse's mouth:

 

"It's something we talk about daily, really," Hazen said. "In the scope of analytics, there's public and private information. There's a lot of stuff that's out there. We obviously read that stuff and we look at it. There's a lot of prime data streams that we have access to that the public doesn't. We can take that and create our own.

 

"We're trying to create our own metrics a lot of times. There has to be rational thought behind that. You have to know what you're looking for. It's becoming bigger and bigger with the Statcast™ stuff that's coming out. There's defensive stuff, performance stuff, injury information that we may have access to that we've never had before. We're trying to collect that ourselves. We're trying to collect it from the public and take it and really create our own proprietary stuff."

[a700hitter]

On a related note, for anyone who has any doubt about whether FOs are looking at things like Fangraphs projections, from the horse's mouth:

 

"It's something we talk about daily, really," Hazen said. "In the scope of analytics, there's public and private information. There's a lot of stuff that's out there. We obviously read that stuff and we look at it. There's a lot of prime data streams that we have access to that the public doesn't. We can take that and create our own.

 

"We're trying to create our own metrics a lot of times. There has to be rational thought behind that. You have to know what you're looking for. It's becoming bigger and bigger with the Statcast™ stuff that's coming out. There's defensive stuff, performance stuff, injury information that we may have access to that we've never had before. We're trying to collect that ourselves. We're trying to collect it from the public and take it and really create our own proprietary stuff."

It is not clear that he was talking about projected standings. It seems like he is referring to individual projections.

[Kimmi]

It is not clear that he was talking about projected standings. It seems like he is referring to individual projections.

 

Of course they look at projected standings. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

[a700hitter]

Of course they look at projected standings. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

I don't doubt it either, but the quote was not about that. I doubt that the projected standings influence any FO in any meaningful way.

[jung]

They would have to be out of their minds to let projected standings from Fangraphs or anybody else effect their thinking. Where do you think the "projections" had KC last year.

 

Just one reason they miss things like KC is because while there are Park Corrections for individual players, these projections have a hard time picking out how well built a particular team is to the place where they play 81 games. At least KC's park is an honest park. It is big to very big with a fast turf and the Royals are as well built to a field with dimensions as it can be.

 

Conversely while the Yanks are very well suited to the dimensions of their park, I do not consider Yankee Stadium an honest park. It is IMO a travesty of justice that should be outlawed as sure as steroids. But it is never going to happen. MLB likes things just as they are anyway.

[a700hitter]

They would have to be out of their minds to let projected standings from Fangraphs or anybody else effect their thinking. Where do you think the "projections" had KC last year.

 

Just one reason they miss things like KC is because while there are Park Corrections for individual players, these projections have a hard time picking out how well built a particular team is to the place where they play 81 games. At least KC's park is an honest park. It is big to very big with a fast turf and the Royals are as well built to a field with dimensions as it can be.

 

Conversely while the Yanks are very well suited to the dimensions of their park, I do not consider Yankee Stadium an honest park. It is IMO a travesty of justice that should be outlawed as sure as steroids. But it is never going to happen. MLB likes things just as they are anyway.

Yankee Stadium's right field is a joke and a mockery of the game. It is a good dimension for Slow pitch Softball.

[OriginalUsername]

This is one of my concerns with Dombrowski. So far, he has refrained from any major shake up within the organization, but we'll see how it goes.

 

A lot of his staff has stayed in Detroit and work under Avila. When he first came to Detroit, he cleaned house and brought a lot of his guys from Florida. This is a little different situation than when he started in Detroit. His former staff probably isn't leaving and typically you would want to bring in your own guys if you clean house. Maybe he'll talk Leyland out of retirement again.

[a700hitter]

DD should clean house. Three last place finishes in four years cannot all be hung around Ben's neck. The organization has been a failure on many levels over that period. The biggest deficiency has been the inability to scout or develop top quality pitching.

[jung]

Interesting that DD has apparently also noticed. According to him they have been spending a good deal of time looking at how they develop pitching through the system. I suspect that includes every aspect of choosing and then developing pitching talent.

[OriginalUsername]

DD should clean house. Three last place finishes in four years cannot all be hung around Ben's neck. The organization has been a failure on many levels over that period. The biggest deficiency has been the inability to scout or develop top quality pitching.

 

Honestly, Dombrowski doesn't have a good history of drafting and developing. The Tigers had good starting rotations, but those were mostly through trades. Verlander and Porcello were the only pitchers they really drafted and developed. He spent a lot of high draft picks on the relievers and the Tigers always had a terrible bullpen.

[cp176]

A lot of his staff has stayed in Detroit and work under Avila. When he first came to Detroit, he cleaned house and brought a lot of his guys from Florida. This is a little different situation than when he started in Detroit. His former staff probably isn't leaving and typically you would want to bring in your own guys if you clean house. Maybe he'll talk Leyland out of retirement again.

 

Leyland still works for me. i'm ok with him having a butt in the dugout as well. I would even hang up a picture of Sparky as well.

[a700hitter]

Leyland still works for me. i'm ok with him having a butt in the dugout as well. I would even hang up a picture of Sparky as well.

Leyland would not be permitted in Fenway because he smokes cigarettes.

[cp176]

i remember seeing "Doggie" Perez caught on camera in the Sox dugout back in the day. Leyland would do a better job of hiding it.

[jung]

The last time we saw Leyland on the bench, he looked old, tired. like the game had finally passed him by and he knew it. Not sure I want to see that continence staring out from the Sox bench.

[OriginalUsername]

The last time we saw Leyland on the bench, he looked old, tired. like the game had finally passed him by and he knew it. Not sure I want to see that continence staring out from the Sox bench.

 

When your bullpen gives up a game tying grand slam and your RF flips over the wall, that will make you look old and tired.

[OriginalUsername]

When your bullpen gives up a game tying grand slam and your RF flips over the wall, that will make you look old and tired.

 

This also showed Dombrowski's weakness as GM. The bullpen gave up leads in two games of that series. Smyly and Benoit were the only good relievers. Smyly was moved to the rotation after Fister was traded. Benoit left in free agency. They were replaced by Joba and Nathan. The bullpen was even worse in 2014. It looks like he has done more though for the Red Sox bullpen.

[Elktonnick]

This also showed Dombrowski's weakness as GM. The bullpen gave up leads in two games of that series. Smyly and Benoit were the only good relievers. Smyly was moved to the rotation after Fister was traded. Benoit left in free agency. They were replaced by Joba and Nathan. The bullpen was even worse in 2014. It looks like he has done more though for the Red Sox bullpen.

 

I agree. While I like Dombrowski's move to shore up the pen to date, I think more still needs to be done.

[cp176]

The last time we saw Leyland on the bench, he looked old, tired. like the game had finally passed him by and he knew it. Not sure I want to see that continence staring out from the Sox bench.

 

I agree with you. That is why I said that I would be satisfied if they just stuck a poster of Sparky up in the dugout and called it good. I'm being a little facetious here i know but I do think that managing will be a big part of this year's picture. i hope that John Farrell is up to the task.

[Kimmi]

I don't doubt it either, but the quote was not about that. I doubt that the projected standings influence any FO in any meaningful way.

 

As I said before, I bet they use the various projection systems as a reality check. No, they're not going to make a major move based on the projected standings. But if their own projected W-L record is out of line with the others, they are going to ask themselves why and figure out what the discrepancy is. That, in turn, will affect some of their future analytics.

[Kimmi]

A lot of his staff has stayed in Detroit and work under Avila. When he first came to Detroit, he cleaned house and brought a lot of his guys from Florida. This is a little different situation than when he started in Detroit. His former staff probably isn't leaving and typically you would want to bring in your own guys if you clean house. Maybe he'll talk Leyland out of retirement again.

 

This is true. Dombrowski did bring in his guy Wren, whom I think he gives more weight to than he does Hazen.

 

I think Avila is on the right track with the Tigers. Kudos to him for bringing that organization up to speed in the analytics department.