Span Poll: Can 2015 be salvaged for the Boston Red Sox ?

[a700hitter]

I the definition of a mediocre staff is a staff with a 4 ERA (which would be a big improvement over the current performance, imp although that would improve the team, it stil would not be competitive. A team 4 ERA doesn't cut it. If that is the definition of mediocre, I think you are mistaken. That is bad.

[a700hitter]

No one has said that our pitching is great. No need for such a mocking post.

i didn't mock anyone in particular so don't take it personally. I am mocking the notion that somehow this staff that Ben built should have been good enough. It was a steaming pile of garbage when it hit the field in Fort Myers and it is fulfilling its destiny. The notion that it was good enough if the hitters hit better and the fielding was better is absurd imo. People can engage in as much wishful thinking, rationalization and denial as they want, but the results are undeniable. The staff is a pile of garbage. It would be even worse but for the fact that Good Buch has made an appearance . We all know that usually doesn't last very long. The rest of them really have very little talent, except for ER who has a lot of promise. The rest of them are DFA candidates. Dillon Gee is better than the rest of the bunch and the Mets DFA'd him.

[cp176]

I the definition of a mediocre staff is a staff with a 4 ERA (which would be a big improvement over the current performance, imp although that would improve the team, it stil would not be competitive. A team 4 ERA doesn't cut it. If that is the definition of mediocre, I think you are mistaken. That is bad.

 

When a team has this type of payroll (unlimited) and produces this type of product, it is not good. I am happy that we have won world championships but I had much more fun following them before the payroll bump. They basically are bad. I would much prefer a team that gradually phased out its veterans, turned the page and went young.

[sk7326]

When a team has this type of payroll (unlimited) and produces this type of product, it is not good. I am happy that we have won world championships but I had much more fun following them before the payroll bump. They basically are bad. I would much prefer a team that gradually phased out its veterans, turned the page and went young.

 

There was time since free agency when this team was not swimming with the big sharks payrollwise?

[sk7326]

Well, I said that Porcello was a mistake since day one as well. They not only traded him but threw him 80 M without a single pitch in red sox uniforme man, 80 f***ing M for this garbage. I'm done with their incompetence, the culture of losing has to end already.

 

For this reason and a lot of other bad decisions that have taxed us in the last 3/4 years, this FO has go. Let them take their bad luck and enigmas somewhere else.

 

They have got some reckoning to do ... and some questions about the coaching staff. Clearly we've left the greatest decade in Sox history (well unless you're really really old) a couple of years behind. But how far - that is an open question.

[sk7326]

I the definition of a mediocre staff is a staff with a 4 ERA (which would be a big improvement over the current performance, imp although that would improve the team, it stil would not be competitive. A team 4 ERA doesn't cut it. If that is the definition of mediocre, I think you are mistaken. That is bad.

 

4.00 was right on the AL league average last year. In 1968 it would have been scandalously bad, in 1999 it would have been really good. Things change.

[Elktonnick]

They have got some reckoning to do ... and some questions about the coaching staff. Clearly we've left the greatest decade in Sox history (well unless you're really really old) a couple of years behind. But how far - that is an open question.

 

I agree but it isn't only the coaching staff. The whole baseball operations group and organizational philosophy has to be re-evaluated. Clearly baseball has changed, I don't think the Bosox have adapted very well to these changes.

[a700hitter]

4.00 was right on the AL league average last year. In 1968 it would have been scandalously bad, in 1999 it would have been really good. Things change.

3.81 was league average in 2014. In the last 3 seasons, i think only 1 team out of 30 made the playoffs with a 4 ERA. If you plan on your staff putting up a 4 ERA these days, you are eliminating yourself from post season contention.

[sk7326]

I agree but it isn't only the coaching staff. The whole baseball operations group and organizational philosophy has to be re-evaluated. Clearly baseball has changed, I don't think the Bosox have adapted very well to these changes.

 

They have been slow to adapt the way the game has changed so fundamentally since 2013.

[iortiz]

They have been slow to adapt the way the game has changed so fundamentally since 2013.

 

2013 was great and I won't take away credit to anyone here, but when you are in the middle of 3 bad seasons, not mediocre, very horrible with one of the highest payrolls in baseball, it suggests me that 2013 was kind of a fluke year (stars aligned or whatever you want to call it) than anything else. As I said, thanks for 2013, it was great but we have to move on.

[cp176]

There was time since free agency when this team was not swimming with the big sharks payrollwise?

 

I was ok with 67. I really don't recall any discussion of the payroll size through the decades of the 70's and 80's. Not speaking for you or anyone else. I had much more fun back in the day. It is hard to imagine that with all of the supposed careful planning and the money spent that they would be this bad.

[cp176]

They have got some reckoning to do ... and some questions about the coaching staff. Clearly we've left the greatest decade in Sox history (well unless you're really really old) a couple of years behind. But how far - that is an open question.

 

 

Guess I must be really old. Although even I can't question which decade was the greatest. I will say it again. It is absolutely unbelievable that they are this bad.

[Spudboy]

I was ok with 67. I really don't recall any discussion of the payroll size through the decades of the 70's and 80's. Not speaking for you or anyone else. I had much more fun back in the day. It is hard to imagine that with all of the supposed careful planning and the money spent that they would be this bad.

 

I don't remember when Flood won his case but I think 1967 was prior to that. Anyway, after the 1967 season ( I believe ) the Sox Gave Yaz a huge for the day contract of $100,000. a year and there was talk about how this was more than the US President.

 

I was gaga about the game at that point. Of course I was only 11!!!

 

I still love the game. But I do not love the politics or or finances. I do like the idea that players can move from one team to another. That's just right.

 

But sometimes I wish that rosters were more stable year to year. I used to be able to tell you the roster and starting 9 of each AL team. Now there is so much turnover and exchange I don't even try much anymore.

 

Of curse the interweb has made so much info instantly available it's to easy to find anything out. You used to have to read the paper, watch TV and read the Sporting News to be up on stuff.

[cp176]

I don't remember when Flood won his case but I think 1967 was prior to that. Anyway, after the 1967 season ( I believe ) the Sox Gave Yaz a huge for the day contract of $100,000. a year and there was talk about how this was more than the US President.

 

I was gaga about the game at that point. Of course I was only 11!!!

 

I still love the game. But I do not love the politics or or finances. I do like the idea that players can move from one team to another. That's just right.

 

But sometimes I wish that rosters were more stable year to year. I used to be able to tell you the roster and starting 9 of each AL team. Now there is so much turnover and exchange I don't even try much anymore.

 

Of curse the interweb has made so much info instantly available it's to easy to find anything out. You used to have to read the paper, watch TV and read the Sporting News to be up on stuff.

 

I am not saying that it was better. just different. It worked for me.

[cp176]

I am not saying that it was better. just different. It worked for me.

 

 

I think the Flood case was in the very early 70's. i also liked stability.

[mvp 78]

I think the Flood case was in the very early 70's. i also liked stability.

 

1969

[Spudboy]

1969

 

I should have known this. I wrote a paper about the History Of Anti-Trust In Baseball while at Cornell in '73.

[sk7326]

Flood lost his case in 1969. Messersmith and McNally were 1976, which is really where it starts. An under-rated book was Gammons "Beyond the Sixth Game" which talked about the industry ability to adjust to the players suddenly having rights. Not as good as Halberstam's "Breaks of the Game", but similar flavor.

[sk7326]

Guess I must be really old. Although even I can't question which decade was the greatest. I will say it again. It is absolutely unbelievable that they are this bad.

 

You mean you lived through the 1910s??

[cp176]

You mean you lived through the 1910s??

 

Oh baby am I well preserved.

[Behindenemylines]

No! Play the kids the rest of 2015. This team doesn't have the pitching to make a run.

[SoxnCycles]

No! Play the kids the rest of 2015. This team doesn't have the pitching to make a run.

 

They do have the pitching and offensive talent.

What they don't have is consistency in both areas.

 

They hit and they don't pitch,or they pitch and don't hit.

[User Name]

They do have the pitching and offensive talent.

What they don't have is consistency in both areas.

 

They hit and they don't pitch,or they pitch and don't hit.

 

Unfortunately, that is the true mark of a bad team.

[sk7326]

What is true is that the last week and change they are playing better baseball, and their kids are starting to pull more weight. It's not a hot streak, but it's at least progress.

[User Name]

What is true is that the last week and change they are playing better baseball, and their kids are starting to pull more weight. It's not a hot streak, but it's at least progress.

 

The future is definitely bright. I'm especially interested in monitoring the Swihart situation. If you ask me, that kid looks like the real deal. He's solid on D, and almost everything that comes off his bat is stung.

[sk7326]

The future is definitely bright. I'm especially interested in monitoring the Swihart situation. If you ask me, that kid looks like the real deal. He's solid on D, and almost everything that comes off his bat is stung.

 

Swihart the raw stuff is obvious, and Betts is going to be a star.

 

Bogaerts is interesting - fangraphs wrote about it - he has gotten very smart about dealing with the off-speed stuff and the stuff down and away. But he is walking less. He has made a contact for power choice which you can't blame him for - but it has kept him potentially from unleashing the power he shows from time to time more regularly. Of course he's leading the AL SSs in fWAR now, so ...

[Spudboy]

Swihart the raw stuff is obvious, and Betts is going to be a star.

 

Bogaerts is interesting - fangraphs wrote about it - he has gotten very smart about dealing with the off-speed stuff and the stuff down and away. But he is walking less. He has made a contact for power choice which you can't blame him for - but it has kept him potentially from unleashing the power he shows from time to time more regularly. Of course he's leading the AL SSs in fWAR now, so ...

 

But where is this power?

 

One can see his approach is better or at least different this year. I think the power has yet to develop. I think he is still a singles / double hitter.

[sk7326]

But where is this power?

 

One can see his approach is better or at least different this year. I think the power has yet to develop. I think he is still a singles / double hitter.

 

Doubles and triples so far, fewer HRs ... in the same breath he's tracking to be a 4 win player this year, which is a pretty good place. I think the comfort level has improved markedly.

[a700hitter]

Swihart the raw stuff is obvious, and Betts is going to be a star.

 

Bogaerts is interesting - fangraphs wrote about it - he has gotten very smart about dealing with the off-speed stuff and the stuff down and away. But he is walking less. He has made a contact for power choice which you can't blame him for - but it has kept him potentially from unleashing the power he shows from time to time more regularly. Of course he's leading the AL SSs in fWAR now, so ...

He is a pretty big guy, so I think his power will develop. I'd project him topping out at 15-20 in a few years. I don't see him as a big home run guy. Edited June 29, 2015 by a700hitter

[sk7326]

He is a pretty big guy, so I think his power will develop. I'd project him topping out at 15-20 in a few years. I don't see him as a big home run guy.

 

Nice thing is that the defensive results show - nobody will confuse him with Ozzie Smith, but he has actually been pretty solid.