Doing things the right way

[bostopz]

Obviously I've been a big fan of Farrell for our 2013 title. He made big moves to boot that worked out tremendously. With that said -- the latest base-running blunders is beginning to get way out of hand.

 

1st off- is Hanley Ramirez one of the most dumbest player's we have ever had in the history of our team? If he isn't - his base-running has to be considered the worst we have ever had. How many times are we going to see mind-boggling base-running blunders from this guy? I still remember early in the year when he blew by a Butterfield stop-sign and wound up scoring on a play he should have been easily gunned down. In the dugout Ramirez and Butterfield were laughing afterwards. This type of behavior leads to more dumb plays. It just makes you wonder if he is this dumb running, - thus in clutch situations how often will he get out-foxed up at the plate?

 

Secondly, Brian Butterfield's decisions to send the runners have been basically awful. One thing we can count on is that the media won't come after him. But Farrell MUST. It's one thing to send a guy home and it's a snap play at the plate. But 3 I can remember- and probably at least one more- he has sent players that got nailed and it wasn't even close. I understand the last fiasco when he sent Napoli vs Minny -- to paraphrase he said he has no heartburn doing it again. The guy that threw the ball home basically lobbed the ball to the plate and Napoli wasn't even close to scoring.

 

This type of stubbornness is ignorant baseball coming forma stubborn coach. Coaching the game ignorantly - ie sending players home with little chance of success - is not a characteristic of a winning type of team. The fact Butterfield si so defiant - that he doesn't need to change or believes he made a mistake is worrisome - imo it sends a message that ignorant gambling baseball without making the more sound move is acceptable. This shouldn't be the case - and I'm not so sure Farrell sees this which is troublesome.

 

IMO in order to be successful you can't promote dumb baseball. The coaches have to lead by example. Sending a guy home with little chance of success is stupid reckless coaching. Someone needs to have the guts to tell Butterfield to cut the crap. If Farrell is endorsing this - then we're in a lot of trouble until he is gone. It's one thing to be aggressive. It's another to bury your head in the sand and continue to push low chance-of-success plays. That's totally stupid. Our managers need to manage the right way and so far in terms of something as simple as base-running, that hasn’t been the case.

[Spudboy]

I don't think Butterfield and his calls would be an issue if the Sox were playing better and winning.

[bostopz]

I don't think Butterfield and his calls would be an issue if the Sox were playing better and winning.

 

Just as when Allen Iverson made his infamous "practice comments."

 

Winners practice. Winners make right decisions. IMO the coaching staff Butterfield or Farrell or both -- their decisions are a microcosm of the team's current failure's. Thus imo if they were playing winning baseball- the coaching staff wouldn't be making such "blundering" moves such as sending runners that have realistically no chance to succeed. That's what losers do- not winners (you can't win enough when you are that stupid. It also encourages the same stupid reckless behavior from the players ie Ramirez. If you could point to something as simple as lousy base-running- there are probably other factors that the coaches are doing that aren't helping the team win. Loser's mentality only spurs on losing on the field.

[User Name]

The main problem with this staff is offensive approach, so Chili Davis should be on the hot seat. The second is lack of in-game strategy other than defensive shifts, that is on Farrell. Other than that, it's much ado about nothing. As Spud mentioned, none of this would be an issue if the Sox were scoring more runs and winning.

[bostopz]

The main problem with this staff is offensive approach, so Chili Davis should be on the hot seat. The second is lack of in-game strategy other than defensive shifts, that is on Farrell. Other than that, it's much ado about nothing. As Spud mentioned, none of this would be an issue if the Sox were scoring more runs and winning.

 

Nah. You're not going to be winning more when you have such a cavalier attitude of simple basics. The coaches show themselves as wild gamblers unwilling to play percentages, the players will see that and will do same in kind. Why should they play percentages if they know the coaches don't instill in their team to play percentages? That approach of not playing percenatges is a losers approach and seeps into other aspects of the game.

[User Name]

That's a massive oversimplification. The definition of the problem however, is also ironically overly simple: They don't score enough runs consistently. How to explain why they don't score runs however, is extremely complicated. You are barking up the wrong tree here though.

[bostopz]

That's a massive oversimplification. The definition of the problem however, is also ironically overly simple: They don't score enough runs consistently. How to explain why they don't score runs however, is extremely complicated. You are barking up the wrong tree here though.

 

No-- the massive over-simplification is the excuse that a fundamental such as lousy base-running is okay.

I'm not barking up the wrong tree nor did I say this was the only problem just symptomatic of the bigger problem which is losing.

 

And the coaches are allowing a loser mentality to seep in - just as we see they allow the lousy base-running to continue.

 

Play the game the right way. You don't play percentages- you're always going to be a loser.

[User Name]

No one's excusing anything. You're just making a huge fuss about nothing. Their problem is that they're sucking at the plate. All of this "loser play" mumbo-jumbo is hogwash. But they do have a very big coaching problem, it's just in another area of the game.

[bostopz]

No one's excusing anything. You're just making a huge fuss about nothing. Their problem is that they're sucking at the plate. All of this "loser play" mumbo-jumbo is hogwash. But they do have a very big coaching problem, it's just in another area of the game.

 

 

You certainly were excusing it. You don't think one area of the game can affect another?

[SoxnCycles]

I don't think Butterfield and his calls would be an issue if the Sox were playing better and winning.

 

Is anyone complaining about Ortiz scoring yesterday?

 

It's called aggressive base running. You put pressure on the opposing defense and hope they can't make the play.

 

They made the play on Napoli, they didn't on Ortiz.

That's how it works.

[Kimmi]

Is anyone complaining about Ortiz scoring yesterday?

 

It's called aggressive base running. You put pressure on the opposing defense and hope they can't make the play.

 

They made the play on Napoli, they didn't on Ortiz.

That's how it works.

 

You live by aggressive base running, you die by aggressive base running.

 

When your team is having trouble scoring runs, being more aggressive is a good way to break out of it, and not just with waving runners home. IMO, the hitters have been more aggressive at the plate recently, and Farrell has been more aggressive with putting runners in motion recently.

[User Name]

bostopz is conflating two things that have nothing to do with each other, then gets butthurt when called out on the shortcomings of his thought process. Amazing.

[mvp 78]

Bobby V liked to do things "the right way." How'd that work out?

[SoxnCycles]

You live by aggressive base running, you die by aggressive base running.

 

When your team is having trouble scoring runs, being more aggressive is a good way to break out of it, and not just with waving runners home. IMO, the hitters have been more aggressive at the plate recently, and Farrell has been more aggressive with putting runners in motion recently.

 

Exactly.

And with two outs, do you really want to rely on this lineup getting an RBI base hit?

 

With less than two out, you hold him up and try for the hit or sac fly.

[bostopz]

Is anyone complaining about Ortiz scoring yesterday?

 

It's called aggressive base running. You put pressure on the opposing defense and hope they can't make the play.

 

They made the play on Napoli, they didn't on Ortiz.

That's how it works.

 

Not at all. As I mentioned, if you get thrown out on close play that's one thing. But we've had at least 3 times our guys got nailed when it wasn;t even close. Not even close.

[bostopz]

You live by aggressive base running, you die by aggressive base running.

 

When your team is having trouble scoring runs, being more aggressive is a good way to break out of it, and not just with waving runners home. IMO, the hitters have been more aggressive at the plate recently, and Farrell has been more aggressive with putting runners in motion recently.

 

yes but as the poster username suggested on this thread or another - stating that I was oversmiplifying things imo that is what imo you are doing here in the name of being aggressive.

 

Tell me- a ball gets hit to short left field in Fenway we have a runner on 3rd, the guy in left field has a shot gun accurate arm. We have one out. Good idea to send him?

[bostopz]

bostopz is conflating two things that have nothing to do with each other, then gets butthurt when called out on the shortcomings of his thought process. Amazing.

 

I didn't have a problem with you on this thread. However it seems not only with just me- anyone that disagrees with your opinion, you always have to let insults fly. If that is not the case I'm sorry but it sure seems that way.

 

What you aren't understanding here on this thread is that I said the pathetic base-running sends by management is symptomatic / another example of all the other failings.

 

In order to be successful you have to pay attention to detail in all areas of the game. These base-running sends by Butterfield are so ridiculous -- it goes beyond being aggressive it is just so obviously stupid. In those plays - the guys chance of scoring was near "nothing." That isn't like the paly from Ortiz last night. That would have been a tight play at the plate. Big difference.

 

The lousy sends are more examples of lousy coaching we are being subject to watch this year.

 

Be aggressive is one thing. Being totally stupid is another.

[User Name]

You make me miss suns.

[iortiz]

The hatred is becoming viral.

[sk7326]

1. The base coaching is the tiniest part of that job. All bad decisions reflect poorly on him, but he won't get credit for the good decisions.

2. The "right way" is the one which scores runs and the one which prevents them.

3. This is - aside from Davis and Willis - the identical staff to one which helmed the wire to wire best team in 2013. So the idea they became the drooling morons you see is just silly.

4. This is NOT the best coaching staff in Red Sox history - that ship sailed 4-5 years ago. But what you are pointing out is deeply reductive and flawed.

[Thunder]

You make me miss suns.

 

When I joined, everyone said I was a lot like him.

[VA Sox Fan]

When I joined, everyone said I was a lot like him.

 

The only thing you share in common is your age. He could be a nightmare.

[mvp 78]

You make me miss suns.

 

I miss suns whenever I log in. He was hilarious.

[SoxnCycles]

So, do we still want Butterfield fired???

[mvp 78]

So, do we still want Butterfield fired???

 

Every third base coach should be fired: Butterfield, Sveum, Kim, etc.

[SoxnCycles]

Every third base coach should be fired: Butterfield, Sveum, Kim, etc.

 

Thanks for clearing that up!

[cp176]

Eddie Popowski has been gone for awhile now

[Behindenemylines]

Sox not doing a lot of things the right way.

[a700hitter]

Eddie Popowski has been gone for awhile now

Pops was the third base coach and Bobby Doerr was the first base coach.

[Northern Star]

"Sandoval’s defense this season hasn’t just been bad, it’s been among the worst in the major leagues. His nine errors are tied for second among all third basemen.

 

Plus, according to Baseball Information Solutions, Sandoval entered play Friday having cost the Red Sox nine runs more than the league average, which is the worst mark among the 51 players who’ve played third base this season."