Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[Elktonnick]

Now by the end of the season, you're gonna have another addition, though. My guess is Henry Owens comes up in June and pitches well.

 

I think this rotation is built for additions. The rotation was built with the guise of contention. Should they all rediscover lost years, then they roll with it. Should they s*** the bed, it can be dismantled quickly without big commitments. Should the sox hit the bottom of the division comes June/July, there are no current starters off limits. Porcello is a prime trade candidate since he isn't signing prior to FA. Miley is still cheap. Buccholz and Masterson are on short term deals.

 

That is the way I see it as well although I doubt if Owens will be up as early as June. IMO the FO has decided that their pitching prospects are better values 2016 and beyond then any purported nbr 1 currently available. Unless they can get some one short term or on really favorable trade terms they are prepared to play at least through the All Star break with what they have and get the lay of the land then. The ALE is weak. I don't see any team projected to win 90 games or run away with a huge lead by the ASB. So I suspect the Sox brass are adopting a wait and see approach which is understandable given the overall situation.

[Spudboy]

That is the way I see it as well although I doubt if Owens will be up as early as June. IMO the FO has decided that their pitching prospects are better values 2016 and beyond then any purported nbr 1 currently available. Unless they can get some one short term or on really favorable trade terms they are prepared to play at least through the All Star break with what they have and get the lay of the land then. The ALE is weak. I don't see any team projected to win 90 games or run away with a huge lead by the ASB. So I suspect the Sox brass are adopting a wait and see approach which is understandable given the overall situation.

 

I hear people saying this but Baltimore is still quite formidable. They have quality starters and a lineup that should score a bunch of runs even with the loss of the juicer's 40 hr.

 

Machado, Weiters, and Davis are due back. If all three of them return to play to norms, that team can win the East easily. If they don't, they are about as good as other ALE teams.

[a700hitter]

I hear people saying this but Baltimore is still quite formidable. They have quality starters and a lineup that should score a bunch of runs even with the loss of the juicer's 40 hr.

 

Machado, Weiters, and Davis are due back. If all three of them return to play to norms, that team can win the East easily. If they don't, they are about as good as other ALE teams.

I agree. The O's could roll over the rest of the division.

[Elktonnick]

Yes the O's are better than the rest of the pack but the loss of Miller and Markakus will be felt here in "Charm City" I just don't see the O's are that formidable.

[User Name]

I hear people saying this but Baltimore is still quite formidable. They have quality starters and a lineup that should score a bunch of runs even with the loss of the juicer's 40 hr.

 

Machado, Weiters, and Davis are due back. If all three of them return to play to norms, that team can win the East easily. If they don't, they are about as good as other ALE teams.

 

Davis' career rates actually averages out to an .815 OPS. Wieters .743, and and Machado is really an unknown, although he's highly projectable. If you ask me, they lost more than they'll gain, especially in the ability to get on base, and the Blue Jays look like the more complete team.

 

All of this is hogwash if the Sox get a #1 and the lineup stays healthy, as they'll be the ones steamrolling the East.

[mvp 78]

No Nelson Cruz too. Right?

[a700hitter]

I forgot that Cruz left. They need some OF help.

[Bellhorn04]

The O's have an excellent GM, an excellent manager, and a cheap owner.

[Spudboy]

I qualified my post. Like most teams the O's have their share of "Ifs".

 

Yes, they will surely miss 40 hr from Cruze.

 

They still need at least one OF. My guess is Rasmus. But there is speculation that the O's will go with an internal option.

 

The Jays made some noise getting Martin and Donaldson. Not sure that will make THE difference. Although they certainly bolster the roster with quality D and power.

 

It is said that the parent corp. Rogers is not inclined to spend anymore for the upcoming season. They need more pitching.

 

Maybe Marcus Stoman will become a dominant pitcher? That kid has real talent from what I saw of him.

 

In any case, the AL East will be fun watching. There are so many Ifs on all the teams.

[Northern Star]

I equate this thread to the waitress in Major League asking the guys how they think the Guardians will do this year, and my response is these guys don't look too f***ing good.

[Spudboy]

I find no reason to try to determine where this rotation ranks among the past 10 years.

 

This rotations will be serviceable as long they remain healthy. Many other teams have had worse rotations and were capable of playing average to winning baseball.

 

A number one starter would be nice. But even with a number one there is no assurance that the Sox will make the playoffs. Certainly this rotation is not one a team would want to try a 5-7 game elimination series with.

[cp176]

I'm still stuck on the Cespedes for Porcello trade. I realize every team can use a bat, but why would the Tigers give up an "up and coming" young arm for him knowing that they could also lose Scherzer. I don't think that Alex wilson is a difference maker in that trade. Detroit has been a pretty well run organization over the years. They had to have felt that Porcello was expendable. I'm thinking that Scherzer winds up back in Detroit but still that is an interesting trade from their perspective. Porcello pitched well last year. I hope he does the same for us. If he has top of the rotation potential or even your number 2, they must have some great arms ready to go. If he is anywhere near as good as we tend to think that he will be, I don't think that I would have made that deal.

[a700hitter]

I find no reason to try to determine where this rotation ranks among the past 10 years.

 

This rotations will be serviceable as long they remain healthy. Many other teams have had worse rotations and were capable of playing average to winning baseball.

 

A number one starter would be nice. But even with a number one there is no assurance that the Sox will make the playoffs. Certainly this rotation is not one a team would want to try a 5-7 game elimination series with.

2013 proved that anything can happen despite preseason prognostications. 2014 proved that Cherington is not a mastermind with a golden touch that had hit on a great formula for lasting success.

[Spudboy]

I'm still stuck on the Cespedes for Porcello trade. I realize every team can use a bat, but why would the Tigers give up an "up and coming" young arm for him knowing that they could also lose Scherzer. I don't think that Alex wilson is a difference maker in that trade. Detroit has been a pretty well run organization over the years. They had to have felt that Porcello was expendable. I'm thinking that Scherzer winds up back in Detroit but still that is an interesting trade from their perspective. Porcello pitched well last year. I hope he does the same for us. If he has top of the rotation potential or even your number 2, they must have some great arms ready to go. If he is anywhere near as good as we tend to think that he will be, I don't think that I would have made that deal.

 

 

Of course we are not privy to what the Tigers FO is thinking so we can only assume and speculate. I suspect that they believed that they needed an OF bat more than a RH starting pitcher. Both players hit the FA market after the 2015 season so that is a wash, sort of.

 

I do hope that the Sox are fully aware of any health concerns with Porcello. It would suck big time if he is damaged goods like Graig, for example.

 

I am on record as being a fan of sorts of Porcello. Mostly because I remember him pitching well against the Sox.

 

I think that we are making too much of the deals for these guys. Above all, the Sox got younger. That is key for many reasons.

[cp176]

Of course we are not privy to what the Tigers FO is thinking so we can only assume and speculate. I suspect that they believed that they needed an OF bat more than a RH starting pitcher. Both players hit the FA market after the 2015 season so that is a wash, sort of.

 

I do hope that the Sox are fully aware of any health concerns with Porcello. It would suck big time if he is damaged goods like Graig, for example.

 

I am on record as being a fan of sorts of Porcello. Mostly because I remember him pitching well against the Sox.

 

I think that we are making too much of the deals for these guys. Above all, the Sox got younger. That is key for many reasons.

 

He is young and looks like he is on the way up. I know that free agency is in both their futures. It is probably me but I just think I would not give up a quality arm for Cespedes unless I had a pretty good stable of young arms on the way. The old adage that you never can have too much pitching is a truism deluxe. I am happy we got him. Maybe Ben C. is the real deal. If he is, he will make 1 more big move I think. (I hope)

[Spitball]

I think Porcello for Cespedes is a head scratcher until you realize the times are changing. During the steroid era, pitching was a scarce and precious commodity. Today, power hitting is the scarce commodity. This year's major league .700 OPS is the lowest since 1992. During the steroid enhanced era from 1996 to 2006, the majors OPSed .762.

 

Cespedes is a rarity today because he has power. There have not been many power hitters available this winter.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Spitball

[a700hitter]

I think Porcello for Cespedes is a head scratcher until you realize the times are changing. During the steroid era, pitching was a scarce and precious commodity. Today, power hitting is the scarce commodity. This year's major league .700 OPS is the lowest since 1992. During the steroid enhanced era from 1996 to 2006, the majors OPSed .762.

 

Cespedes is a rarity today because he has power. There have not been many power hitters available this winter.

Good point. Power is becoming a rare commodity.

[cp176]

I think Porcello for Cespedes is a head scratcher until you realize the times are changing. During the steroid era, pitching was a scarce and precious commodity. Today, power hitting is the scarce commodity. This year's major league .700 OPS is the lowest since 1992. During the steroid enhanced era from 1996 to 2006, the majors OPSed .762.

 

Cespedes is a rarity today because he has power. There have not been many power hitters available this winter.

 

Very true. That being the case, looks like the Sox still have some trade chips there.

[Palodios]

I think Porcello for Cespedes is a head scratcher until you realize the times are changing. During the steroid era, pitching was a scarce and precious commodity. Today, power hitting is the scarce commodity. This year's major league .700 OPS is the lowest since 1992. During the steroid enhanced era from 1996 to 2006, the majors OPSed .762.

 

Cespedes is a rarity today because he has power. There have not been many power hitters available this winter.

 

This point came up a few times when discussing who Cespedes would pull back in trade talks. Surprisingly, there have been several quality bats available this offseason -- Nelson Cruz, Hanley, Donaldson, Justin Upton, Vmart, Cespedes, Kemp, Pablo, Ethier, Myers. That seems like a respectable group.

[Spitball]

Would those guys have been considered home run hitters ten years ago?

[vjcsmoke]

I guess trading a young power hitter for a projected #3 pitcher is considered a good deal because Cespedes only had 1 year left on his contract. But I would normally have preferred to keep the everyday player unless we could have packaged him to get a better pitcher. In the end we took what the market gave.

 

The rotation has a lot of questionmarks. Who can emerge to be the #1 guy? A huge question. I don't know if we even plan to address that issue before the season starts but right now we have no ace on the squad. Maybe Cherington is praying/hoping that Buchholz has a good year? He's either really really good or really really awful.

[cp176]

I guess trading a young power hitter for a projected #3 pitcher is considered a good deal because Cespedes only had 1 year left on his contract. But I would normally have preferred to keep the everyday player unless we could have packaged him to get a better pitcher. In the end we took what the market gave.

 

The rotation has a lot of questionmarks. Who can emerge to be the #1 guy? A huge question. I don't know if we even plan to address that issue before the season starts but right now we have no ace on the squad. Maybe Cherington is praying/hoping that Buchholz has a good year? He's either really really good or really really awful.

 

I am thinking that Porcello is free after next year as well. I have no idea what Detroit was thinking or if they know something that we don't. Porcello had a very good year last year - once again last year. He is young and hopefully healthy and may have a solid upside. Nothing is a given but it looks like the tigers traded potentially good pitching for a potentially good bat. I would take that trade every time.

[dupree]

The tigers will definitely have power hitting and a dangerous lineup that may lead the league in HRs, unless the old men on the Yankees stay healthy and hit the most out over their softball fence in left field.

[Behindenemylines]

A lot depends who shows up. If the beginning of 2013 Buchholz and a healthy Masterson show up then the staff won't be as bad as some worry that it could be. Granted this team still needs an ace to make any playoff run.

[Spudboy]

One thing that worries me is starting pitching depth. Most of the time a team needs 6-7 guys ready to contribute innings in a regular season. I don't think that the Sox are deep in this category.

 

If one or two of the current starters falters or becomes injured, who steps up? Renaudo? Workman? Barnes? Owens?

 

Will any of those guys be able to provide quality starts if needed?

[Palodios]

One thing that worries me is starting pitching depth. Most of the time a team needs 6-7 guys ready to contribute innings in a regular season. I don't think that the Sox are deep in this category.

 

If one or two of the current starters falters or becomes injured, who steps up? Renaudo? Workman? Barnes? Owens?

 

Will any of those guys be able to provide quality starts if needed?

 

Valid points. Workman and Wright are probably the next two guys up. Unless some of the other guys make strides, that's not good news.

[Spudboy]

Thanks for pointing out my omission of Wright. I was thinking about him a couple of days ago when this all occurred to me.

 

Thanks Pal.

[jacksonianmarch]

I honestly think Owens is in your rotation on June 2, right after he'd secure an extra year of team control. This is assuming he isn't hurt, btw. TINSTAAPP

[seabeachfred]

Valid points. Workman and Wright are probably the next two guys up. Unless some of the other guys make strides, that's not good news.

 

Workman as a starter????? PLEASE!!!!!! Just jog your memory to last season Pal. He was a total bust at 1-10 as a starter and was usually meat after one trip through the lineup. He is a short inning reliever and little else. He might make a good seventh inning reliever for us but not as a starting pitcher.

[iortiz]

“We’re pursuing some stuff but I think it’€™s more what you would classify as depth related,” Cherington said. “…We like where we’€™re at. We like the collection of pitchers we have. We think there’€™s untapped potential in the group and the collection we have now can give us a strong pitching staff this year.”

 

If true, the worst rotation on paper since I can remember entering into a new season.