Shane Victornio? If So Cherington Must Go!

[marklmw]

It doesn't change the fact that the Sox are paying $13 million for a .750 OPS.

 

Are 1 & 2 making $13M+ per year? 4-10?

 

Victorino contract is in the ballpark. He is playing great defense and his bat in the 2 spot is more than adequate.

[BigPapi]

Well Shane is certainly on a hot streak now. He was last weeks al player of the week

[sk7326]

Now what is true is that Shane's value will fall through the floor if his legs (and glove) go. He just is not a good enough hitter to be a reasonable RF without his wonderful defense (CF he could fake). But that might not be something that the Sox have to worry about until his contract is over.

[mvp 78]

Ahhhhhhh

 

It wasn't me this time. I promised I wouldn't do it anymore.

[Behindenemylines]

I think the Sox have gotten their value out of Victorino this season. He has to be one of the best defensive RF in baseball, and has done well hitting in the two hole. Plus he is another one of those good clubhouse guys the Sox signed last off season. Having played in Philadelphia you kind of knew the bright lights of Boston weren't going to effect him.

[Behindenemylines]

The Flying Hawaiian did it again last night in the 11 inning. He has performed well when in the lineup. He is that character guy that BC probably over spent to get, but has been a vital part of the Sox success. I'm glad the Sox got him and not Swisher who was in the mix. How many balls did Victorino get to that would still be bouncing around if Swisher was in RF?

[SCM33]

For people who don't know what this means... Victorino is leading the majors in defensive value at any position in UZR/150.

 

Next year, when Ellsbury leaves (he will) does Victorino have more value in RF or CF?

[BSN07]

Next year, when Ellsbury leaves (he will) does Victorino have more value in RF or CF?

 

Normally I'd say CF, but with Fenway's quirks it's imo the most demanding OF position for a Red Sox OF. That and moving him to CF would require moving one of the other OF's to RF, ya you'd get elite CF defense but the overall OF defense would go down. Nava/Gomes/Carp are better suited for LF over the long term and I'm not sure how Bradley would transition to RF.Maybe you would consider it if they didn't have a good CF ready to take over, but they do. Bradley plays a good CF.

[sk7326]

Next year, when Ellsbury leaves (he will) does Victorino have more value in RF or CF?

 

His bat has much more value in CF, but I am not sure at his age you can count on him to do it at a premium level. I think he stays in RF. Bradley's range at CF is a better fit.

[a700hitter]

Victorino is the best OFer on the team. If Ellsbury leaves, he should be the CFer.

[jung]

If Ells goes I expect we see Bradley or they bring somebody else aboard. Vic is fast now but not Ells fast and he would have trouble with CF in Fenway if pressed into service there for too many games I think. I love him in RF though and that is where I would want him to stay. Few years earlier and would feel differently.

[rjortiz]

I would look into trading Victorino this offseason. Someone might be tempted to overvalue him based on his UZR. I'm skeptical that he'll be able to replicate those numbers next year.

[RedSoxNC84]

Victorino sucks. He's terrible. He is the kind of bat that hurts a line-up, not helps it.

 

 

Sorry to bump this thread but after last night's slam I kinda had to.

[User Name]

You shall feel the wrath of YOTN.

[vjcsmoke]

In light of the Red Sox' appearance in the World Series this year, and Victorino's contributions to our cause, do you care to RETRACT your statements now?

 

In my opinion yes in this situation it does come down to the money.

 

I had no problem with him in Philly, i thought he was a solid player there. But 38 mil is just a lil much. Supposedly a team has offered him a 4 year deal. I hope he takes that.

 

I wonder if this is true and all the reports are accerate if he will be Boston's new center fielder and the FO is gonna package Ellsbury into a deal to get a front of the line starting pitcher?

 

I hope not... i love ellsbury (when healthy) slotted in at leadoff i dont think shane victorino in right and an outfield of Gomes/Kalish, Ellsbury, & Victorino is gonna make a boom in ticket sales.

 

I like the fact that the FO is trying to change the atmosphere in the clubhouse from the chicken and beer to a more upbeat good hearted guys. But still that dont buy us WINS i guess the FO is just looking to have guys who are in a good mood even when losing 90+ games. I hope all the reports are wrong.

[Dojji]

I'll take my crow with a dish of Chinese mustard.

[Station 13]

Stop bumping this thread. Let's enjoy this.

[BSN07]

I don't see a problem bumping threads like these just as long as it stays civil. Everyone here should be able to take their lumps cause no one is perfect. Not saying we should nit pick everything anyone says but when it's a polarizing debate with camps entrenched on both sides of the argument, the so called "winning" side deserves a few jabs at the other camp.

[Behindenemylines]

I loved the signing of Victorino! The guy proved in Philadelphia that he was a gamer who could produced in the bright lights of a big baseball town. The 13 million this year was a bargain. Gold Glove RF, decent offensive stats at the top of the lineup, and a good club house guy. Even when he isn't hitting he finds away to do things that helps the team win. There was some who wanted BC to sign Swisher to play RF. I don't think the Sox are 2013 Champs with Swisher in RF.

[Dojji]

When I wanted Swisher, I was looking for a guy who could play at first base and move to the outfield adequately when we played in the NL. Sort of the way Cleveland used him. For that kind of role a guy like Swisher would still be very useful to us.

 

Do not regret Napoli coming here over Swisher, I want to make that clear. I have lusted after Napoli since 2006. Ectstatic to get the year out of him we did and I hope we keep him.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I am in the camp of liking it when these threads get bumped. I was underwhelmed as a lot of people at the off season signings. I won't go so far as saying I will be eating crow, as I am usually in the camp of lets see how this plays out. I did think this was a bridge year to something better. Shows what I know.

It serves notice that a signing that looks great in the winter, may not look good in the fall, (and vice versa..those signings that the GM made look brilliant now.)

[Thunder]

Funny how wrong we all were in the first few pages.

[User Name]

When I wanted Swisher, I was looking for a guy who could play at first base and move to the outfield adequately when we played in the NL. Sort of the way Cleveland used him. For that kind of role a guy like Swisher would still be very useful to us.

 

Do not regret Napoli coming here over Swisher, I want to make that clear. I have lusted after Napoli since 2006. Ectstatic to get the year out of him we did and I hope we keep him.

 

That sounds really, really creepy.

[Behindenemylines]

Victorino's gold glove defense, timely hitting, and his good teammate makeup was a vital part of the Sox success this season. Moving forward, with the likely loss of Ellsbury Victorino may have to take over the lead off spot. If Ellsbury leaves, JBJ will open up in center, but if he struggles Vic is an option to move over to CF. I liked the signing last winter, and the 13 mil seams like a bargain now.

[BornToRun]

Looking at his numbers, he's not as bad as I thought. I'm still not sure how I feel about this but he's fast, has some pop, is a great base stealer, and can play defense. If he can go back to what he was prior to 2012 and put up a .340-50 OBP with about 15 bombs with speed and D, I'll be happy. Here's hoping.

 

We're really much more active in the FA market than I thought though. I just hope BC has the good sense to stay away from Grienke and Hamilton. Great though they be, thats gonna be a lot of money for two guys who have some significant issues.

 

I was reading through this thread for shits and gigs and came across this post.

 

Please note that the scenario I posted there is pretty much exactly what we wound up getting from him in 2013.

[SoxSport]

Vic discovered he could hit righty all the time--even against RHP--and hit better. That was an important discovery, because it raised his value and he is locked in for 2 more years. The logical thing is he stays in RF and JBJ takes over in CF next year. Never mind the PR--Ells is replaceable, and will be replaced if Boras salary demand hits $20 mil and more than 4 years. When I think of Boras, I think of skyrocketing ticket prices and cable bills.

[Thunder]

I was reading through this thread for shits and gigs and came across this post.

 

Please note that the scenario I posted there is pretty much exactly what we wound up getting from him in 2013.

Little bit more than 15 bombs.

[jung]

I wonder if Vic stood so close to the plate the last time he hit RH against RH pitchers. Maybe he has a better view angle on the ball from that close to the plate. I think he had said that he has not hit RH/RH since his last year in high school. So it has surely been awhile. Will be interesting to see if he continues that way. Expect pitching coaches to be looking at the Verlander game closely as I think that is the only game we saw where Vic felt compelled to move back over to the left side. Surely not every RH pitcher is Verlander but there must have been something there that Vic simply felt he could not handle.

[Behindenemylines]

With the possible loss of Ellsbury, Victorino's role with the Sox may become even larger. At worst he is your RF in April, or he could be in center if JBJ still is not ready or if the Sox make a play for a big corner outfielder bat.