Shane Victornio? If So Cherington Must Go!

[iortiz]

Ross probably gets 2/22M(3/27 max) and Swisher gets 5/65M.

 

What worries me is that he decreased his line .245/.316/.351/.667 but still it is a career line of .275/.341/.430/.770

 

On the other hand Ross' last year line was .267/.326/.481/.807 and his career line is .262 .324 .460 .783, so...

 

Unless we are after Ross as well (seems so), who proved to hit terrific in Fenway, I do not get why we didn't resign Ross instead, anyway...

 

I think we overpaid Victorino a bit but what it's done is done so welcome Shane.

[BSN07]

What worries me is that he decreased his line .245/.316/.351/.667 but still it is a career line of .275/.341/.430/.770

 

On the other hand Ross' last year line was .267/.326/.481/.807 and his career line is .262 .324 .460 .783, so...

 

Unless we are after Ross as well (seems so), who proved to hit terrific in Fenway, I do not get why we didn't resign Ross instead, anyway...

 

I think we overpaid Victorino a bit but what it's done is done so welcome Shane.

 

Victorino is an overall better player then Ross. And the Red SOx were gonna have to pay Ross at least 3 x's what they did last season to do the same thing.

[iortiz]

Victorino is an overall better player then Ross. And the Red SOx were gonna have to pay Ross at least 3 x's what they did last season to do the same thing.

 

that much? 20 M? I mean... with that money you could get or complete money for arms, just saying...

[BSN07]

that much? 20 M? I mean... with that money you could get or complete money for arms, just saying...

 

The still have plenty of money. Having Victorino also gives them the option of trading Ells. This might not be the final product. So far it's a good ingredient.

[kapsis21]

trading Ells might be the right idea but i fear he is going to end up in yankee uniform... since we dont want to go for 6 year deals and Ells will probably get that from stinking yanks

[jung]

And what money are the Yanks going to use to do that?

[ibot2much]

Why does the spector of a RS player going to the Yanks haunt so many people here? We heard it with Ortiz.....like they needed an old guy whose injury hasn't been tested, and now Ells.

 

Come on, they don't need RS cast-offs. They got enough of their own old....injured....expensive players

[dupree]

Why does the spector of a RS player going to the Yanks haunt so many people here? We heard it with Ortiz.....like they needed an old guy whose injury hasn't been tested, and now Ells.

 

Come on, they don't need RS cast-offs. They got enough of their own old....injured....expensive players

 

Well said... i think Ells will be moved before the season starts

But they could keep him & see if he has a good 1st half then trade him at the deadline

 

If he does have a good 1st half then a front line starter would be easier to obtain

But with Victorino signed & reports of Boston still kicking round on Hamilton & C Ross

Id say Ells is out for a middle of the rotation guy + a prospect to a team with pitching

A team like AZ because Upton is all but gone & they could throw $ at scott boras next year

[BSN07]

trading Ells might be the right idea but i fear he is going to end up in yankee uniform... since we dont want to go for 6 year deals and Ells will probably get that from stinking yanks

 

Ellsbury has eventual Mariner written all over him IMO.

[dupree]

Agreed

 

If Ellsbury is kept to the end of the season & the Sox are in the running

I could see Seattle going all in for a guy like Ellsbury

Only way i see Ellsbury staying is having another injury plagued season so his market is down

[jacksonianmarch]

He was a top 8 WAR OF prior to a down 2012. Hunter is like like what 3 years older and got 2/26M. It's a market value deal.

 

Hunter also hit over .300 and had a monster season. Victorino had a down yr on all fronts aside from stolen bases. Even his defense slipped into the minus category in 2012. And let's say he does recoup his previous success, he's not a high OBP guy. He's a .270/.340/.420 player who can steal bases. That is very valuable, dont get me wrong, but without the elite defense, I do not think he's a $13 mil a yr player. To put it differently, Victorino is a Brett Gardner clone with a little more pop, less patience and worse defense. Is that a $13 mil a yr player?

[NZSox]

And what money are the Yanks going to use to do that?

 

This.

 

They've got so much money tied up in toxic contracts and injured/unmovable players I doubt they'll have the flexibility to sign Ells to the large $ multiyear deal he's after

[jacksonianmarch]

This.

 

They've got so much money tied up in toxic contracts and injured/unmovable players I doubt they'll have the flexibility to sign Ells to the large $ multiyear deal he's after

 

They won't, nor will they have to. For once in a great while, the Yankees will be flush with elite OF prospects who will be MLB ready come 2014.

[BSN07]

Hunter also hit over .300 and had a monster season. Victorino had a down yr on all fronts aside from stolen bases. Even his defense slipped into the minus category in 2012. And let's say he does recoup his previous success, he's not a high OBP guy. He's a .270/.340/.420 player who can steal bases. That is very valuable, dont get me wrong, but without the elite defense, I do not think he's a $13 mil a yr player. To put it differently, Victorino is a Brett Gardner clone with a little more pop, less patience and worse defense. Is that a $13 mil a yr player?

 

'10-'12(avg)

 

Hunter: .285/.351/.448 20HR

 

Victorino: .264/.334/.434 15HR

 

It's not leaps and bounds different. And considering the market and the multiple teams in on Victorino the overpay on AAV is palatable.

[BSN07]

They won't, nor will they have to. For once in a great while, the Yankees will be flush with elite OF prospects who will be MLB ready come 2014.

 

Flush?

[jacksonianmarch]

Flush?

 

Mason Williams, Slade Heathcott, and Tyler Austin are all very good to elite OF prospects, 2 of which are capable of playing CF at a high defensive level

[jacksonianmarch]

BSN, it's rare that we have 3 offensive prospects in our top 10, period, but those 3 are in our top 5 prospects overall.

[BSN07]

BSN, it's rare that we have 3 offensive prospects in our top 10, period, but those 3 are in our top 5 prospects overall.

 

You expect all 3 to make it? If I said this you be telling me how crazy it would be to assume all 3 will make it and produce at the ML level.

 

Realistically if one is above average, one is average, and one flames out, your still doing all right.

[jacksonianmarch]

You expect all 3 to make it? If I said this you be telling me how crazy it would be to assume all 3 will make it and produce at the ML level.

 

Realistically if one is above average, one is average, and one flames out, your still doing all right.

 

I don't expect them all to make it. But I expect one to make an impact in 2014. We know we have Gardner in 2014, assuming no trade, so we have to find replacements for Swisher this yr and Grandy for next. This yr, I have a feeling we go with a platoon in RF of Schierholz and Ichiro and then come 2014, see how things are going. If you put a gun to my head, I would say that our starting RFer in 2014 will be Tyler Austin. The other two have injury issues they have to work through, so I expect one to flame out due to injury and the other to be a good big league CFer

[BSN07]

I don't expect them all to make it. But I expect one to make an impact in 2014. We know we have Gardner in 2014, assuming no trade, so we have to find replacements for Swisher this yr and Grandy for next. This yr, I have a feeling we go with a platoon in RF of Schierholz and Ichiro and then come 2014, see how things are going. If you put a gun to my head, I would say that our starting RFer in 2014 will be Tyler Austin. The other two have injury issues they have to work through, so I expect one to flame out due to injury and the other to be a good big league CFer

 

Ok, that sounds like reasonable expectations.

[SoxSport]

What worries me is that he decreased his line .245/.316/.351/.667 but still it is a career line of .275/.341/.430/.770

 

On the other hand Ross' last year line was .267/.326/.481/.807 and his career line is .262 .324 .460 .783, so...

 

Unless we are after Ross as well (seems so), who proved to hit terrific in Fenway, I do not get why we didn't resign Ross instead, anyway...

 

I think we overpaid Victorino a bit but what it's done is done so welcome Shane.

 

The word is Vic played hurt last year--bad hand. Discount his weak 2nd half with the Dodgers. They clearly weren't going by his numbers in LA. Off-year, not a decline.

[SoxSport]

I don't expect them all to make it. But I expect one to make an impact in 2014. We know we have Gardner in 2014, assuming no trade, so we have to find replacements for Swisher this yr and Grandy for next. This yr, I have a feeling we go with a platoon in RF of Schierholz and Ichiro and then come 2014, see how things are going. If you put a gun to my head, I would say that our starting RFer in 2014 will be Tyler Austin. The other two have injury issues they have to work through, so I expect one to flame out due to injury and the other to be a good big league CFer

 

Yanks are in trouble--with ageing and big contracts.

[seabeachfred]

This is a puzzling deal for a team trying to show fiscal constraint. He's coming off a career worst season, is 33 for the 2012 season and makes a lot of his hay with his legs. I agree with the sentiments above that a 1 yr deal is a great idea, but 3 yrs at $13 mil per is a major overpay.

 

While I'm fine with the Napoli signing I'm even less enamored with the Victorino inking that I was yesterday. Among the plethora of problems with his signing is the fact that he has become totally undisciplined at the plate, usually swinging at anything he sees. I saw him a lot on TV when the Dodgers got him last summer and he looked like he was fading badly, slow on the fast ball and very little power. Unless they are looking to trade their paper mache CF and move Shane there this signing looks like a horseshit one to me, and it will look even worse tomorrow.

[rjortiz]

I think Fenway will help Victorino a lot. He's a 2B and 3B hitter who is coming into a ballpark that inflates those figures by a large factor.

[MNSoxChief102]

While I'm fine with the Napoli signing I'm even less enamored with the Victorino inking that I was yesterday. Among the plethora of problems with his signing is the fact that he has become totally undisciplined at the plate, usually swinging at anything he sees. I saw him a lot on TV when the Dodgers got him last summer and he looked like he was fading badly, slow on the fast ball and very little power. Unless they are looking to trade their paper mache CF and move Shane there this signing looks like a horseshit one to me, and it will look even worse tomorrow.

 

From what I've heard, Victorino played most of last season with a hand injury that impacted his hitting quite a bit. Hence the down year. He's always been a gamer so it doesn't surprise me that he decided to play through the injury rather than go on the DL.

 

Also heard Mattingly said he's the kind of player that thrives on the kind of atmosphere that Boston or New York or Philly provides. LA was too relaxed for him in a way. He needs the pressure to perform. Given that, I think that he'll turn out to be a solid if not spectacular addition sooner rather than later.

[jung]

I don't know if I wanted to know about Victorino's hand. Now being used to excuse last season performance. With our luck it is STILL an issue and he is headed into surgery. All we will hear is that "the hand was known by the Sox to be an issue".

[MNSoxChief102]

I don't know if I wanted to know about Victorino's hand. Now being used to excuse last season performance. With our luck it is STILL an issue and he is headed into surgery. All we will hear is that "the hand was known by the Sox to be an issue".

 

There's a difference between it being an excuse and it being an explanation. I lean towardsit being the latter. If he had pussed out and chose to sit instead of playing through it, I'd see it differently.

[jung]

Just show up healthy...Victorino was not wearin' a Sox uniform last year so I really don't care about whether it is meant to excuse it or explain it. Just show up healthy.

[MNSoxChief102]

Just show up healthy...Victorino was not wearin' a Sox uniform last year so I really don't care about whether it is meant to excuse it or explain it. Just show up healthy.

 

+1 on that. From everything I've seen, that will be the case.

[lospunchados]

Why the fan base has turned against Ellsbury is beyond me. A gold glove defender, with elite speed, capable of a .900+ OPS and people are content swapping him for Shane Victornio.

 

Victorino is in decline. And such a bad signing for that money. Cody Ross is a far better player and only wanted 3-years $25M as much as an overpay as that would have been this Victorino deal is far worse. Victorino only would have made sense on a one-year Cody Ross-2012-type deal.

 

You really don't know what you are talking about. I like Ross but saying Victorino is a backup is nonsense. In an off year Victorino had .005 lower obp than ross. If you look at Victorinos stats what happened is exactly what happened with Varitek a couple of times, He couldn't get it going from the left side of the plate. In 7 other previous seasons he has averaged under .275 twice, last years .229.

 

Cody away from Fenway was just as bad hitting .232. The thing is, Gomes if healthy very easily can put up Ross type numbers ( especially moving from the cavernous Oakland O.co stadium to Fenway. Victorino is much more comparable to Crawford right now.

 

If you really want to see his so called decline here is the graphs of the two players compared to league average. Ross gives you more power. Victorino less strikeouts better obp, more SB's and better D. otherwise fairly similar.

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=1760&position=OF&page=1&players=1677