Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

I've been seriously warming up to the thought of signing Edwin Jackson. His career numbers scared me a bit, but I didn't realize that he made his MLB debut at 19.

 

He's 29 years old, so a three year contract would only put him at 32. Over the last four years, he's been a 4.00 ERA pitcher, tons of innings. I wonder if 3/39 would be enough to get him on this team?

[jung]

The point is they can't get through this season without adding even some middle rotation guys. Who are we kidding? This rotation is in tatters.

 

To me it makes no sense to make a run at Dempster for two years when they really need to find a way through this year and then get to work on resolving the SP problem long term a different way. That might include a guy they took on a one year deal this year proving out and it might not. It might include packaging a trade deal around Ells now or later and it might not. However it makes no sense to me what so ever to go after a two year deal with the likes of Dempster and pass on the guys they passed on. However as I said early, it does sound like something they would do. It sounds exactly like something they would do, the equivalent of the dumb ass moves they have made regarding pitching of late only on a much smaller scale.

 

I simply do not think the Sox have a clue when it comes to pitching.....I mentioned in a thread weeks ago that if I had my way, I would mold my FO such that it was the ML's best evaluator of pitching talent. I would really be focused there. Instead it seems to me that it is the weakest part of our FO assets. It certainly appears that way from watching them operate.

[a700hitter]

My point isn't that your frustration is misguided. It's that each of these non-moves had context and reasoning

yes, the context is that they have been doing a lousy job for several years preventing them from doing anything last year. That's no excuse. It's still a lousy job.

Gio Gonzalez, if I remember correctly, would have required Will Middlebrooks. That might be a trade worth makin but it is a significant value and I'm not upset the sox have Middlebrooks at this point.

We can only speculate what he would have cost. Even those who believe that he would have cost too much can't agree on which prospects he would have cost us. Let's just call a spade a spade. The Nats made one sweet deal.

[Palodios]

I've been seriously warming up to the thought of signing Edwin Jackson. His career numbers scared me a bit, but I didn't realize that he made his MLB debut at 19.

 

He's 29 years old, so a three year contract would only put him at 32. Over the last four years, he's been a 4.00 ERA pitcher, tons of innings. I wonder if 3/39 would be enough to get him on this team?

 

I just read a very interesting article about Edwin Jackson-- apparently he hasn't seen much interest yet this offseason. Anibel Sanchez has seemed to get all the attention, despite that they have been relatively similar pitchers. I've been changing my preferences for pitchers a lot this offseason, but Edwin Jackson is probably the best option on the FA market. Maybe the Red Sox should throw an offer out there before his value jumps up-- after Jackson's misfortune last year, maybe he'll ignore Boras and accept.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/mlb-rumors/21310361/report-edwin-jackson-encountering-very-cool-market

[a700hitter]

I just read a very interesting article about Edwin Jackson-- apparently he hasn't seen much interest yet this offseason. Anibel Sanchez has seemed to get all the attention, despite that they have been relatively similar pitchers. I've been changing my preferences for pitchers a lot this offseason, but Edwin Jackson is probably the best option on the FA market. Maybe the Red Sox should throw an offer out there before his value jumps up-- after Jackson's misfortune last year, maybe he'll ignore Boras and accept.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/mlb-rumors/21310361/report-edwin-jackson-encountering-very-cool-market

One big advantage that Jackson has over Sanchez is that he has been much more durable. He will be able to take the ball 30 times.

[iortiz]

I just read a very interesting article about Edwin Jackson-- apparently he hasn't seen much interest yet this offseason. Anibel Sanchez has seemed to get all the attention, despite that they have been relatively similar pitchers. I've been changing my preferences for pitchers a lot this offseason, but Edwin Jackson is probably the best option on the FA market. Maybe the Red Sox should throw an offer out there before his value jumps up-- after Jackson's misfortune last year, maybe he'll ignore Boras and accept.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/mlb-rumors/21310361/report-edwin-jackson-encountering-very-cool-market

 

If we could land both, would be great!... And next offseason focus on an ace and you would have something like this toward 2014

 

Ace

Buch

Lester

Sanchez

Jackson

Depth: Lackey

 

And in the meantime you would go next season

 

Buch

Sanchez

Lester

Jackson

Lackey

Depth: Douby

 

I would bet my money on something like this... Seriously, is this rocket science?

[Bellhorn04]

They're only going to add one starter.

[Palodios]

They're only going to add one starter.

 

The word is that they want to add one or two. If they add two it would mean that someone else gets traded, or they get an injury risk players like Marcum and another piece.

[Behindenemylines]

Not sold on Dempster and glade he passed on the Sox offer. With that said the Sox still must add a SP that can compete in the AL East. We see these teams so many times. Lohse is the name you are starting to here and I'm a little concern that his success has come in the NL. He doesn't throw that hard and not sure how he would make out in the AL East. Regardless, the Sox need to be able get a starter and once Greike is off the market the rest of these FA pitchers will go quickly.

[BSN07]

At this point a 2 year offer might get Jackson. And considering everything he's a decent innings eater. I wouldn't be against him.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Jackson

Doubront

Lackey(eventually)

 

That's not bad. But it's still shaky.

[Lucienbel]

I'd imagine they end up adding a few. They'll add one that's like Jackson/Sanchez/Dempster (really hoping it doesn't end up being him) and probably do something like they did last year where they give guys a shot and look at them in Spring Training. The good thing about this year is, both Jurrjens and Marcum etc. have a million times more upside than guys like Aaron Cook did last year.

[redsoxfan3]

I am glad Dempster rejected the offer. That doesn't mean he does not want to play here, it just means he will accept the first three year offer he gets. We need to sign Jackson or Sanchez. I don't care if we overpay for short term contracts. We have financial flexibility. We need at least one decent starter. Haren and McCarthy signed elsewhere. Pass on Dempster. We are not going after Greinke. I will be happy if we can just get Sanchez or Jackson. Both would be awesome, but one would be a start.

[iortiz]

I am glad Dempster rejected the offer. That doesn't mean he does not want to play here, it just means he will accept the first three year offer he gets. We need to sign Jackson or Sanchez. I don't care if we overpay for short term contracts. We have financial flexibility. We need at least one decent starter. Haren and McCarthy signed elsewhere. Pass on Dempster. We are not going after Greinke. I will be happy if we can just get Sanchez or Jackson. Both would be awesome, but one would be a start.

 

I wonder how much money would be for both, Jackson and Sanchez.

[dupree]

I wonder how much money would be for both, Jackson and Sanchez.

 

Jackson a 3 for 39 would prolly be close.. but it as the pitchers start coming off the board his AAV will go up. The FO will prolly wait around & have to overpay it will possibly be in the 3/45 range

 

Sanchez is the 2nd best pitcher in most eyes he might get 4/68 or 5/85

 

I hope they go after Jackson quickly & pass on Sanchez and wait till next year when Lincuem is on the market

 

& no to Dempster or Loshe... both sound stay in the NL the AL east is not the place

sign Juregens to a 1 or 2 year deal

[a700hitter]

Jackson a 3 for 39 would prolly be close.. but it as the pitchers start coming off the board his AAV will go up. The FO will prolly wait around & have to overpay it will possibly be in the 3/45 range

 

Sanchez is the 2nd best pitcher in most eyes he might get 4/68 or 5/85

 

I hope they go after Jackson quickly & pass on Sanchez and wait till next year when Lincuem is on the market

 

& no to Dempster or Loshe... both sound stay in the NL the AL east is not the place

sign Juregens to a 1 or 2 year deal

Probably not a bad way to go-- Jackson (a guaranteed innings eater) and take a risk on jurjens.

[DocHolliday]

Probably not a bad way to go-- Jackson (a guaranteed innings eater) and take a risk on jurjens.

 

And keep the tradeable prospects in house.

 

Have De La Rosa, et al as more depth options.

[Lucienbel]

Probably not a bad way to go-- Jackson (a guaranteed innings eater) and take a risk on jurjens.

 

Agreed. While I don't think that it's exactly what this team needs, it'll make them decent. It may be the best case scenario for them on the market this off season.

[iortiz]

Jackson a 3 for 39 would prolly be close.. but it as the pitchers start coming off the board his AAV will go up. The FO will prolly wait around & have to overpay it will possibly be in the 3/45 range

 

Sanchez is the 2nd best pitcher in most eyes he might get 4/68 or 5/85

 

I hope they go after Jackson quickly & pass on Sanchez and wait till next year when Lincuem is on the market

 

& no to Dempster or Loshe... both sound stay in the NL the AL east is not the place

sign Juregens to a 1 or 2 year deal

 

So we are talking about 100 M, right?

 

This is what they paid for D-K.... I would get this done, but that's me.

[BSN07]

So we are talking about 100 M, right?

 

This is what they paid for D-K.... I would get this done, but that's me.

 

Jackson at 2/24M might. I don't think they want to glut the rotation up on 2nd tier pitchers on long term contracts. Sanchez unless he signs for something like 4/60M doesn't make sense in the long run.

[dupree]

So we are talking about 100 M, right?

 

This is what they paid for D-K.... I would get this done, but that's me.

 

Yes i do believe counting his Japanese teams signing fee or whatever its called it totaled up to 100million

 

I would save the 17+ million per year & not sign sanchez next years FA crop is better

Make a trade for middle rotation pitcher or sign a high ceiling injury prone 2012 pitcher to compete for a 4 or 5 spot at the start of the year

& if by mid season the sox are in contention & every year good pitchers are on the block because their respected teams fall out of contention then a trade needs to be made & cost less at mid season that at the start of the year

 

Sign jackson (innings eater) & take a chance or give a prospect a shot

[iortiz]

Jackson at 2/24M might. I don't think they want to glut the rotation up on 2nd tier pitchers on long term contracts. Sanchez unless he signs for something like 4/60M doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

As I said, If those were the numbers I would go for them and look for an ace in 2014 offseason.

 

Ace

Lester

Buch

Sanchez

Jackson

Depth: Lackey.

[seabeachfred]

I disagree with you about Gio, but I am in total agreement with your assessment of the overall problem. There were many ways to go. Doing nothing is perplexing to me?

 

The FA pitchers are starting to drop like flies and we are still noodling along and doing nothing to fix our rotation. Again, Lester and Buchholz are not mentally equipped to take on the roles of Nos. 1 and 2. They aren't that mentally tough, and may not be physically able either. I just wonder if Fredo (Cherington) disagrees and is determined to go with what we have and hope those two birds, plus Lackey and Doubrant can handle the load.

 

If we go the trade route it is going to cost us talent, make no mistake about that. Ben did a pretty good job IMO in getting us some reinforcements at the plate and in the field, but for some reason he needs to get busy with the pitching.

[dupree]

As I said, If those were the numbers I would go for them and look for an ace in 2014 offseason.

 

Ace

Lester

Buch

Sanchez

Jackson

Depth: Lackey.

 

At those numbers i say sign um... But 2013 is the year of the overpay

I would rather overpay for Hamilton on a 3-5 contract than over pay for Jackson & Sanchez

Sign 1 of the two & then just hope u can get a guy to be sub 5.00 ERA and just out slug them every 4th or 5th day with a line-up of hamilton nap & ortiz it could be done

 

I think this year is set up for more smarter trades than has b

Mid season make athe trade for the post season runeen reported

[example1]

I can think of very few expensive FA SPs who ended up being a good deal. Do we think that Anibel Sanchez is going to break that trend? Sabathia and Cliff Lee, maybe, but Anibel Sanchez? No thanks. Use the money elsewhere.

[User Name]

At those numbers i say sign um... But 2013 is the year of the overpay

I would rather overpay for Hamilton on a 3-5 contract than over pay for Jackson & Sanchez

Sign 1 of the two & then just hope u can get a guy to be sub 5.00 ERA and just out slug them every 4th or 5th day with a line-up of hamilton nap & ortiz it could be done

 

I think this year is set up for more smarter trades than has b

Mid season make athe trade for the post season runeen reported

 

This makes absolutely no sense. The offense as it is can score runs, yet the pitching is in shambles. Taking that into account, why should Josh Hamilton be the number one target?

 

It's like cooking steak and mashed potatoes. You have a steak and need potatoes, but you go out and buy another steak. Where's the potatoes? Are you going to mash one of the steaks?

[example1]

This makes absolutely no sense. The offense as it is can score runs, yet the pitching is in shambles. Taking that into account, why should Josh Hamilton be the number one target?

 

It's like cooking steak and mashed potatoes. You have a steak and need potatoes, but you go out and buy another steak. Where's the potatoes? Are you going to mash one of the steaks?

 

If potatoes cost twice what they are worth and steak can be had at a reasonable deal, I might go with the steak and look for another side...

 

Okay, that's not entirely true. Potatoes are essential with steak.

 

In any case, I'm torn on this one. If Sanchez can be had for, say, a 4 year 68m deal (that's 4 x 17m) then it would fit into the Sox current plan of overpaying for shorter market deals. The Sox justified overpaying for Victorino and Napoli because the other options were considerably worse and they wanted to get it done. In order to do that with Sanchez it might literally take 4 years, $20m per, if he's really seeking, say, 6 years 100m. That seems like way too much to pay for a guy like him, just to secure the best option.

[Spudboy]

I'd take a second steak any day over mashed potatoes. Of course, I low carb.

[User Name]

Sign Edwin Jackson then trade Ellsbury + for another starter. Then you can focus on Hamilton/Swisher.

[Palodios]

The four remaining mid-tier options are Edwin Jackson, Lohse, Marcum, and Dempster.

 

Jackson is starting to seem to be the far best option of the group. His last team is already out of the running, and he's probably not a good fit with many of his previous teams, which eliminates most of the contenders.

 

I keep looking at Kyle Lohse, and I can't figure out why anyone would want to sign him long-term. He's 34 years old. He's been absolutely spanked by American league teams in his career-- If you look at his career numbers, he only has good splits against teams like Houston, Cleveland, Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc. Dempster too, is a NL pitcher at best.

 

Marcum has had arm and shoulder problems, but hell, you can probably sign him AND Jackson..

[example1]

The four remaining mid-tier options are Edwin Jackson, Lohse, Marcum, and Dempster.

 

Jackson is starting to seem to be the far best option of the group. His last team is already out of the running, and he's probably not a good fit with many of his previous teams, which eliminates most of the contenders.

 

I keep looking at Kyle Lohse, and I can't figure out why anyone would want to sign him long-term. He's 34 years old. He's been absolutely spanked by American league teams in his career-- If you look at his career numbers, he only has good splits against teams like Houston, Cleveland, Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc. Dempster too, is a NL pitcher at best.

 

Marcum has had arm and shoulder problems, but hell, you can probably sign him AND Jackson..

 

Lohse on anything other than a very team friendly one-year deal would be disastrous, IMO. Perhaps scouts have watched him and can see something good that has "clicked" for him the past two seasons, but even then he shouldn't be paid like a guy who has been putting up those kinds of numbers for his entire career.

 

Jackson would be a decent choice. is combination of being healthy and having periods of success would have me comfortable putting him at the bottom of the rotation.

 

I guess my bigger point is that people who are thinking the Sox should be finding that pitcher who is going to get them into contention/favored status right now really need to find some patience. I simply don't think that guy is out there. And when that guy DOES become available, I would hate for an extra, unnecessary 5m per year to be going to a guy like Sanchez or Lohse or Jackson.

 

Overall the Sox should be extremely aggressive on guys like Cole and Bauer. Any of the young pitchers who were top 5 draft picks are excellent options to build around. It might take more patience from fans but the upside is significantly higher with tose pitchers and the results are potentially much better.

 

The key phrase is patience. I know everyone feels like they have been patient since 2010 or whatever, but the rebuilding process for this team didn't start until the AdGon trade. it has been about 3 months. For most teams it takes years. The Sox did their best to extend their run of success, it failed, and now they're back at the drawing board. It is foolish if we expect that the answers are all there in the first season.