Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Injured? Just sucking at the plate. So he would hopefully "bounce back" from his suckoid recent performances.

 

This is absolutely hilarious.

[Soxfan1]

Is today's game on TV?

[ibot2much]

Is today's game on TV?

 

according to the GLOBE, there is no radio or TV coverage

[SoxSport]

Did Ben win round 1? You'll see a Globe poll next. Just watch for it.

 

I hope the Ben vs Bobby thing doesn't go on ad nauseam at the Globe all season. It could be distracting.

 

I found Bobby's reason for optioning Iglesias pretty vague. Something about his look coming back to the dugout after an at bat. I thought he looked pretty good at the plate the times I saw him. Hit a couple of line drives in two at bats. A bit more bulked up. I think pulling his groin trying to steal home (Bobby called that?) slowed his progress enough to give them excuse to do what they wanted to do.

 

They need his defense much more than they need Aviles "hitting." Wait 'till Youks gets hurt.

 

For all you guys looking for the next ARod in Iggy, don't get your expectations too high.

 

Lavarnway will be the next option down. Or they might keep him while Crawford is out.

If they keep him, he's liable to steal the catching job.

[a700hitter]

Did Ben win round 1? You'll see a Globe poll next. Just watch for it.

 

I hope the Ben vs Bobby thing doesn't go on ad nauseam at the Globe all season. It could be distracting.

 

I found Bobby's reason for optioning Iglesias pretty vague. Something about his look coming back to the dugout after an at bat. I thought he looked pretty good at the plate the times I saw him. Hit a couple of line drives in two at bats. A bit more bulked up. I think pulling his groin trying to steal home (Bobby called that?) slowed his progress enough to give them excuse to do what they wanted to do.

 

They need his defense much more than they need Aviles "hitting." Wait 'till Youks gets hurt.

 

For all you guys looking for the next ARod in Iggy, don't get your expectations too high.

 

Lavarnway will be the next option down. Or they might keep him while Crawford is out.

If they keep him, he's liable to steal the catching job.

Even if it is real, the press doesn't need to harp on it day after day. It's not an interesting read, and it is targeted at nothing other than destroying their relationship. Not productive.

[Spudboy]

This is absolutely hilarious.

 

I concur.

[mvp 78]

Iglesias has been sent to AAA. BV is just Ben's puppet, amiright?

 

The problem isn't that the GM and manager don't see eye to eye on everything, but that it became an issue in the media. Steve Buckley said Tito and Theo would disagree all the time, but just keep it behind closed doors.

[redsoxfan3]

It is good to see shutouts in back to back games. I am extremely confident in our front three in the rotation as long as there are no injuries. It seems like Bard and Doubront are going to win the other two rotation spots. I am hearing that they already know what the rotation is going to be for opening day, although they obviously aren't going to say it right now.

 

With Iggy, it does not surprise me he got sent to AAA. His time will come, maybe at some point this season. The SS job was Aviles' to lose. I am comfortable with Aviles at SS. I know we will lose a little defensively than if we would have Iggy, but as of right now he has done everything he could to earn it in Spring Training.

 

I didn't get to watch the game today, but I am glad both Morales and Melancon gave up no runs. Statistically, that is a step in the right direction, especially for Melancon. I am confident that our pitching will be decent. Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz will be solid. I think Doubront and Bard will progressively get better throughout the year once they start to get more experience as major league starters. Melancon, Aceves, and Bailey should be solid for us in the pen. I am really liking the way things are all coming together at the end of Spring Training. Bard gets one more start before the Spring ends, hopefully he progresses even more as a starter.

 

Also, the whole BS with Bobby V and BC is stupid. Let the media speculate what they want to. They do not know the entire story. I am glad Bobby V and BC could agree on the decision on Iggy.

[seabeachfred]

It is good to see shutouts in back to back games. I am extremely confident in our front three in the rotation as long as there are no injuries. It seems like Bard and Doubront are going to win the other two rotation spots. I am hearing that they already know what the rotation is going to be for opening day, although they obviously aren't going to say it right now.

 

With Iggy, it does not surprise me he got sent to AAA. His time will come, maybe at some point this season. The SS job was Aviles' to lose. I am comfortable with Aviles at SS. I know we will lose a little defensively than if we would have Iggy, but as of right now he has done everything he could to earn it in Spring Training.

 

I didn't get to watch the game today, but I am glad both Morales and Melancon gave up no runs. Statistically, that is a step in the right direction, especially for Melancon. I am confident that our pitching will be decent. Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz will be solid. I think Doubront and Bard will progressively get better throughout the year once they start to get more experience as major league starters. Melancon, Aceves, and Bailey should be solid for us in the pen. I am really liking the way things are all coming together at the end of Spring Training. Bard gets one more start before the Spring ends, hopefully he progresses even more as a starter.

 

Also, the whole BS with Bobby V and BC is stupid. Let the media speculate what they want to. They do not know the entire story. I am glad Bobby V and BC could agree on the decision on Iggy.

 

RSF3, I go along with your whole post save for Bard in the rotation. He may make me eventually eat my words and make me look like a sap but right now I do not think he has the makings of being a successful starter. He has walked too many batters, when in the zone he gets hit pretty good, and he doesn't seem to get out of an inning without damage. I always believed that in his case we should have left well enough alone and keep him in the pen, but Cherington has this wild hair in his nose and thinks the guy has the means and neccessities to be a quality starter. I hope Ben is right on this but I have deep doubts about it.

[The Celtbot]

Good offense almost always outweighs good defense but poor offense. No way would a sub par .200 hitter get the starting job at SS, sorry. Mike Aviles looks to be good defensively as well.

[jung]

As I said earlier the larger problem with sending Iggy down is that:

- since everybody expects him back at some point this year, how many at bats do we really think he will get at Pawtucket? I suspect he will not improve at all over the expected period

- Since Avilas is really the consummate utility player, injuries will force him to move around and force Punto and his mid-600's OPS into the lineup. Would you rather have Avilas moving around, playing the utility role he is so well adapted to with Iggy playing SS or have Avilas moving around with Punto playing SS?

 

I seriously doubt that Youk will play more than 120 games at 3rd leaving those games for Avilas. There is no telling how many times Pedroia might need a blow whether he is injured or not and then you get to the outfield where Aviles is again an excellent choice to fill in especially if the opposition sends a left handed pitcher to the mound.

 

At any rate I suspect Iggy will be forced up by just the injury dynamic I am talking about here regardless of whether or not he improves his hitting at Pawtucket as Punto is just not the answer when the Sox have to start moving Aviles around. Maybe this is fine. FO gets to save face. I suspect this is as much about the FO saving face as anything else.

[jung]

I heard something today that really bothered me in the discussion of plus defensive players in plus defensive positions ala' Iggy. One of Boston's prominent talking heads commented that we cannot think of Iggy in terms of guys like Mark Bellanger or maybe the infamous Medoza (responsble for the Mendoza line) because this is not the 1970's. But in fact it is the 1970's only the Sox have not figured that out yet. The steroid era is over. We are going back to baseball that values speed and defense more highly again because we are back to a time when 35-40 home runs will be a lotta' home runs.

 

I was pretty much staggered by the power outage that has resulted almost immediately and entirely because we are no longer in the steroid era. Obviously the era of potential 70 home run performances is way over and everything that is power related is going to be way down from what it was during the steroid era. Lets not kid ourselves and make believe that our precious Sox were not as involved in the steroid era as any other group of players.

 

The Sox better start thinking about players that are plus defenders in plus defender positions the way people thought about guys like Mark Bellanger because that is the kind of baseball we are going to be seeing. Granted, we have the DH now but I suspect we are already seeing a shift away from the kind of DH represented by Ortiz and more and more will be seeing guys in the DH role that are avery day players that rotate into the DH role. It will become less and less likely that your DH is sitting in the 4 or 5 hole every game.

 

Obviously this is my opinion but it is hard to ignore the simple fact that power numbers are in serious decline now that the steroid era is behind us.

[Palodios]

But in fact it is the 1970's only the Sox have not figured that out yet. The steroid era is over. We are going back to baseball that values speed and defense more highly again because we are back to a time when 35-40 home runs will be a lotta' home runs.

 

The Sox better start thinking about players that are plus defenders in plus defender positions the way people thought about guys like Mark Bellanger because that is the kind of baseball we are going to be seeing. .

 

I disagree with this. What position are the Red Sox weak defensively? They had gold glovers at CF, 1B, and 2B last year. Their LF won a gold glove in 2010. They picked up a good defensive C and a good defensive middle infielder this offseason. They gave out a monstrous signing bonus to a guy in Iggy who doesn't have a bat whatsoever. They signed Mike Cameron because they thought he was going to be good defensively. They have a middle of the order bat sitting in the minor leagues because they want him to improve his defense.

 

I simply don't see any argument that could be made about the Red Sox disregarding defense.

[a700hitter]

I disagree with this. What position are the Red Sox weak defensively? They had gold glovers at CF, 1B, and 2B last year. Their LF won a gold glove in 2010. They picked up a good defensive C and a good defensive middle infielder this offseason. They gave out a monstrous signing bonus to a guy in Iggy who doesn't have a bat whatsoever. They signed Mike Cameron because they thought he was going to be good defensively. They have a middle of the order bat sitting in the minor leagues because they want him to improve his defense.

 

I simply don't see any argument that could be made about the Red Sox disregarding defense.

We are pretty solid defensively-- no real weak spots except Salty.

[SoxSport]

I don't know if we really know what's going on. Maybe they compromised. Iggy goes, Lavarnway stays.

We'll see. I think the Red Sox are very PR conscious, so PR may be a factor.

 

I see V is now considering Aviles leading off. The guy has a .318 OBP. Help.

[jung]

I have put little credence in the GG for a long time now. Ellsbury winning a GG with that arm is pretty much a sham.

 

CC is a joke in our LF adding more credence to the notion that the GG is a sham. The Sox are so shy of arms in the outfield that V has been relegated to sending the middle infielders out to cut off everything and relay everything on plays at home because nobody in our outfield can get the ball to home! In fact our current SS is probably the only guy that is available for our outfield that can get the ball to home from the outfield.

 

They signed Mike Cameron because he was a name player that fit their marketing ambitions more than anything else and that blew up in their faces. Another one of their Ohh Ahh signings that went nowhere.

 

They have spent a fair amount of money on iggy but if I were a betting man I would bet that Iggy will not actually spend more than a season if that in Boston as plus defensive SS never hang around Boston more than a season unless they can hit.

 

Most disconcerting to me is that the Sox with very few exceptions did not do well against the competition in the era of baseball before the power numbers really started to get crazy. We can look at 67, 75 and 76 as years when they did well but basically they failed relative to the competition outside of those years before power numbers started to go nuts. But they always hit the crap out of the ball at least in their home park. They could not run, were not particularly great defensively with notable exceptions like the Yaz, Lynn, Evans, Fisk years and rarely had enough pitching to do anything.

 

How much does that look like the current Sox? Great offense, sketchy defense and questionable pitching.....just like almost every Sox team I have seen from the Fifties, Sixties and parts of the Seventies.

 

I know I am being particularly critical here but the way this organization functions is beginning to wear on me. Besides I am getting old and cranky in my old age.

[jung]

We are pretty solid defensively! Holy Molly!!!

 

Agons is a plus defender at 1st

Pedroia is a plus to neutral defender at 2nd

Aviles is a deficiency at SS and SS is a huge defensive position

Youk is starting to fad at 3rd and I would rate him neutral at this point

The entire outfield could not throw its way threw a paper bag and

Salty....well we have all said enough about Salty and Catcher is another huge defensive position

[Bellhorn04]

We are pretty solid defensively! Holy Molly!!!

 

Agons is a plus defender at 1st

Pedroia is a plus to neutral defender at 2nd

Aviles is a deficiency at SS and SS is a huge defensive position

Youk is starting to fad at 3rd and I would rate him neutral at this point

The entire outfield could not throw its way threw a paper bag and

Salty....well we have all said enough about Salty and Catcher is another huge defensive position

 

Do you think our defence was a factor in some of our losses last year?

[Palodios]

 

How much does that look like the current Sox? Great offense, sketchy defense and questionable pitching.....just like almost every Sox team I have seen from the Fifties, Sixties and parts of the Seventies.

 

I know I am being particularly critical here but the way this organization functions is beginning to wear on me. Besides I am getting old and cranky in my old age.

 

If you don't rely on gold gloves, what do you rely on? All statistics that we have at our disposal say that Agon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Crawford and Punto are all very good defensively. There is zero credibility in the eye-test.

[SoxFanForsyth]

We are pretty solid defensively! Holy Molly!!!

 

Agons is a plus defender at 1st

Pedroia is a plus to neutral defender at 2nd

Aviles is a deficiency at SS and SS is a huge defensive position

Youk is starting to fad at 3rd and I would rate him neutral at this point

The entire outfield could not throw its way threw a paper bag and

Salty....well we have all said enough about Salty and Catcher is another huge defensive position

 

Uh. What?!? Pedroia had a 17.9 UZR last year (best in MLB ). How is he a plus to neutral defender??

 

Pedroia is an elite defender. Not sure what you're saying with him.

 

I would say Aviles and Youk are both average to below average defenders, and I think the left side of the infield is a big hole right now. I think Iglesias gets about 150-200 AB's in AAA and then gets called up in mid to late May, and he'll significantly strengthen the left side of the infield. But until then, I am concerned about it.

[Palodios]

Pedroia is a plus to neutral defender at 2nd

 

I stopped here. I almost always enjoy reading your posts, but this is just silly. :harhar:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

A lot of posts are silly. It's so hard to impress people on talksox.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The last time I checked' date=' the $14 mil man was batting in the 170s. Hope he improves pretty soon because seeing him swing through the air reminds me too much of a couple of years ago.[/quote']

 

My dear God. Panic already?!? The season hasn't even started!!!

 

Unreal. It really is.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow. Reading through the thread today. Just wow.

 

Some people need to get laid.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Wow. Reading through the thread today. Just wow.

 

Some people need to get laid.

 

 

I see the nonsense too, but it's best I don't say anything.

[jung]

I rated Pedroia at plus to neutral because he plays so hard that at times he clearly looks beaten up out there playing 2nd. If Peddey knew how to ratchet it back every once and awhile I think he would always be a plus defender. There are times when he looks like he should be in an ambulance instead of out at 2nd base. He just does not know how to play at anything less than 110% and ya' gotta' love him for it but there are times when he just looks stiff and beaten up out there.

 

At 100% he i always a plus defender. I would love to know how much of the season Peddey actually plays at 100%. I would expect the number is less than we think it is.

[a700hitter]

I rated Pedroia at plus to neutral because he plays so hard that at times he clearly looks beaten up out there playing 2nd. If Peddey knew how to ratchet it back every once and awhile I think he would always be a plus defender. There are times when he looks like he should be in an ambulance instead of out at 2nd base. He just does not know how to play at anything less than 110% and ya' gotta' love him for it but there are times when he just looks stiff and beaten up out there.

 

At 100% he i always a plus defender. I would love to know how much of the season Peddey actually plays at 100%. I would expect the number is less than we think it is.

Pedroia is definitely a plus fielder whether he is beat up or not.

[jung]

Fine put Peddey at plus. Still does little to change the analysis of this team's defensive capabilities because they do not have pluses at the most critical defensive positions on the field. In fact they have deficiencies at the most important defensive positions on the field with the exception of Center which is an important defensive position. However I cannot rate Ellsbury as better than neutral with that arm.

 

As I mentioned earlier, V has already announced that all outfield throws WILL be cut off by the middle infielders because none of the outfielders can get the ball home! What we want to turn a blind eye to that? Go ahead! See how many guys we will be picking off at home when every throw has to be relayed. We will be able to pick off turtles and that is about it.

 

That sort of deficiency in the outfield arms also means teams will be able to get from 1st to 3 easier on us and will actually have an easier time around the base paths generally on us, not quite a good idea when you have concerns for your pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

Fine put Peddey at plus. Still does little to change the analysis of this team's defensive capabilities because they do not have pluses at the most critical defensive positions on the field. In fact they have deficiencies at the most important defensive positions on the field with the exception of Center which is an important defensive position. However I cannot rate Ellsbury as better than neutral with that arm.

 

As I mentioned earlier, V has already announced that all outfield throws WILL be cut off by the middle infielders because none of the outfielders can get the ball home! What we want to turn a blind eye to that? Go ahead! See how many guys we will be picking off at home when every throw has to be relayed. We will be able to pick off turtles and that is about it.

 

But it's going to be essentially the same defense as last year, except substitute Aviles for Scutaro and Sweeney/Ross for last year's mishmash in right. I don't see a big dropoff.

[jung]

Sorry I did not mean to be dodging a question. Yes I do think that eventually defense became an issue for this team last year. Notice if you will that it was particularly exposed as our pitching s*** the bed but that does not mean our defense was better when the pitching was better. It was just not as exposed and I am not convinced that they are as good defensively this year as they were last.

 

Does this look like a great pitching staff? It is an above average but not great staff IF there are no injuries to 1,2 or 3 in the rotation. If anything happens to any of those three guys for any length of time this staff goes from above average to below average in a heartbeat.