Players unhappy with the Valentine as manager?

[FredLynn]

Well said. After hearing what Schilling said about Valentine I was really skeptical but if you look at it as it is it's really not a bad deal.

 

Its all going to be how he handles adversity, which in Boston is defined by a three game losing streak.

IMO his hiring is 75% for the purpose of cleaning up the clubhouse to maximize the chances of success in a couple of years. Making the playoffs this year is a bonus, and winning a ring is just something I cannot see happening with this group of players.

Two years; maybe three.

[YAZMAN]

I believe they Ben/Bobby et al will be taking Beckett's pulse. I am not 100% convinced that the club really wants Beckett back. I sense they would like to trade him if they could. I know that will be hard to do.

 

He's destined at some point to wind up with the Rangers. The question is when.

[3rdManOut]

But who could we get for Beckett that would be really worth trading for? Excuse me for being nieve but I just dont see it happening unless something drastic happens.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here's the issue with Beckett. Currently, he's your #2 starter. I think Lester is your #1 and by default, Buchholz is your #3. You have no #4 or #5 for 2012 right now. If you deal Beckett to a contender, you're going to get prospects back, and right now, his value is high, but not ridiculously high since his work ethic has come under question (which is a character flaw rather than a mechanical one). So you're going to deal him about 85 cents on the dollar to a contender for prospects, then what? If Seattle is serious about going after Fielder, they arent moving Felix. What, you go get Garza? Maybe Floyd? You're either worse off or equal to where you were before. You have to keep Beckett, there is no way around it

[Palodios]

Beckett isn't going anywhere. They simply won't get the value for him. I was really hoping for them to trade him for a #3+#4 or #3+#5, but there aren't many teams with that kind of pitching depth, and the ones who do-- the Braves/Rays aren't interested, or already traded a few guys-- Giants/A's

[jung]

Beckett isn't going anywhere. They simply won't get the value for him. I was really hoping for them to trade him for a #3+#4 or #3+#5, but there aren't many teams with that kind of pitching depth, and the ones who do-- the Braves/Rays aren't interested, or already traded a few guys-- Giants/A's

 

I tend to agree here. Unfortunately this may turn out to be the worst outcome for us. I don't view Beckett as they kind of guy that gets mean and takes it out on the opponent when he gets mad. He is more like the kind of guy that gets mad and pouts about it. At least there is a long time between now and the start of the season but I am willing to bet this was only the first of what will turn out to be a number of rough moments between Beckett and Valentine.

[iortiz]

I don't know how Beckett is going to perform next year. It is unlikely that he repeats his 2011 numbers, I agree. But a completely different thing is saying that he isn't going anywhere. He is a legit 2-3 moving forward. I guess he will be around 3.5-4.0 ERA next season if healthy. That's the thing, he needs to train and be in shape in order to prevent injuries and stay healthy.

[mvp 78]

"If healthy..." Not possible for Becks.

[Spudboy]

If there is any truth to this...

 

To: Red Sox Players

 

Read your CONTRACT that stipulates you are being paid MILLIONS to do a JOB. Your contract makes you an EMPLOYEE of the Red Sox.

 

It's like asking a bunch of pre-schoolers who drove their teacher insane by destrying the classroom and then wanting to pick the substitute.

 

I don't care if an organ grinder's monkey is managing the team, you are being PAID TO DO A JOB. This ain't the teenage days of summer.

 

Excellent f***ing post.

[SCM33]

Beckett isn't going anywhere. They simply won't get the value for him. I was really hoping for them to trade him for a #3+#4 or #3+#5' date=' but there aren't many teams with that kind of pitching depth, and the ones who do-- the Braves/Rays aren't interested, or already traded a few guys-- Giants/A's[/quote']

 

Not sure how much I agree with this.

 

Beckett does not want to play for Valentine. They need to try and deal him now while he still has some value.

 

What happens if he goes in to a shell and starts the season with a 2-5 record with a 5+ ERA and "blisters" start popping up again?

 

Get something while they can because this will not end well.

[iortiz]

If BV is capable to tame this wild texan horse, everything will be alright, otherwise be prepare for another tragic comedy.

[SoxSport]

Looking at the title of this thread, so far I haven't seen any evidence of players unhappy about Valentine as manager. Or happy, for that matter.

[Palodios]

Let me post what Valentine said about his conversation with Beckett. The following is referring to Valentine's criticism's of Beckett taking a long time between pitches:

 

I’ll talk about the length of the conversation. It was 20 minutes maybe a little more. But the first two sentences were, ‘Oh, by the way, I was really pissed off at what you said,’ and I said, ‘Let’s get that out of the way,’ and I said, ‘OK, that’s out of the way,’ and we talked about everything else. That was kind of the extent for his dislike of what I said.[/Quote]

 

 

He goes into more detail, but the rest is just fleshing out more of this. It gives me the feeling that if Valentine let Beckett do his own thing on the mound, it won't be a huge problem. Off the mound is where I am concerned.

 

 

 

“I’ll say this, because it’s apropos and he won’t mind, he felt at the time, and probably correctly so, he was dominating the Yankees. I mean he was totally dominating them when he pitched and one of the things that was mentioned from across the field was mentioned by Kevin Long, according to him. I didn’t remember this as an ESPN announcer, but Kevin Long started complaining about him talking too long. And he felt, why don’t I take long and if they don’t like it, then that’s exactly what I want to do. Whatever they don’t like, and what makes them uncomfortable, makes them unsuccessful. And we at ESPN fell into the Kevin Long strategy of trying to reverse his success. So I get it. Maybe I did. That’s where it was a frenzy and it led to watching the game and I had read or heard what Kevin had said and I was reiterating it.[/Quote]

[SCM33]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7579505/red-sox-spring-regimen-met-frowning

 

Boston Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine said Wednesday that his spring training regimen has so far been met with some grumbling from players who aren't used to his more demanding style.

"When I look at the program we devised, I don't think of it as tough. But it seems it's different because a lot of people are frowning. I just asked them to give (it) a few days," Valentine said, according to The Boston Globe. "We all know that no one likes change except for those who are making other people change of what that person want them to. I happen to be one of those guys who likes change because guys are doing what I want them to do. I would bet there will be 100 guys who won't really like it because it's change for them. But they'll get used to it."

Red Sox workouts under former manager Terry Francona in recent seasons had been more lax. Valentine, meanwhile, has a reputation for pushing his players. In fact, Valentine wants to make the club's games against Northeastern and Boston College nine innings instead of seven and also wants to add a couple of games to the team's spring training schedule.

 

"The more we see (the pitchers) the easier it's going to be for us to know what we have," Valentine said, according to the Globe. "It can be played anywhere. I'd like the other guys to have different uniforms and I'd like to be able to see it if possible."

Those games are likely to either be split-squad games or intrasquad games played on a practice field. He said there weren't as many of those types of games in spring training anymore "because there's a lot of lazy people in the game today."

"Everyone says (spring training) is too long. I think that's baloney," Valentine said. "To get guys really ready, I think everyone's working the deadline to get a starter with 30 innings and five (starts). The numbers just don't compute."

Valentine's comments Wednesday were his first public remarks from the team's new spring training facility in Fort Myers, Fla. He begins his first camp as Red Sox manager with the team coming off a 7-20 September collapse and a messy aftermath that revealed some pitchers were drinking in the clubhouse on their off days.

Starting pitcher Clay Buchholz, for one, said Wednesday that he thinks the structure and rigorous workouts are just what the Red Sox need.

"Sometimes when you veer off the path that you need to take, you need someone there to tell you, 'Hey this is where we need to go and I see you doing this,' " he told the Boston Herald. "In that aspect, it's going to be good for us."

Red Sox first baseman Adrian Gonzalez said Wednesday that he expects a changed atmosphere under the traditional hard-liner Valentine, whom he met with in Boston last week.

"One of the things I really like is that in spring training we're going to pay attention to a lot of details," Gonzalez said in an interview on ESPN Radio. "Not just doing things for the sake of doing them, but actually doing them to get something out of it. Spring training is going to be a little more lengthy. That's where it's going to start and it's going to go from there. Spring training is something that is really going to set the tone for the rest of the season, I think."

 

I like it. No doubt Beckett was one of the complainers.

[sleepyhollow]

IMHO, Valentine has the right idea. Sox failed in 2011, September to be exact, b/c they weren't prepared for 162 games. Baseball is a long season and you need to be physically and mentally fit. Pedroia and Youks go to a Gym for a few months b/f ST to be prepared. If Beckett is the complainer, So Sad, too bad. The players are going to in much better shape and may even enjoy the season in 2012.

[mvp 78]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7579505/red-sox-spring-regimen-met-frowning

 

 

 

I like it. No doubt Beckett was one of the complainers.

 

Too bad that BV has already done his share of kissing Josh's ass in interviews and backtracking on what he said last year.

[SoxSport]

The team right now resembles the Yawkey Country Club of the 1950s and early 60s. Dick Williams was brought in and changed that quickly--resulting in the 67 pennant. Valentine was brought in to do the same.

He will have to get these guys in shape and have them play as a team again.

 

Williams, by the way, became disfavored by Yawkey as too tough on his stars, and he promptly went out to Oakland and SD and won a championship or two. HOF manager.

[yeszir]

"When I look at the program we devised, I don't think of it as tough. But it seems it's different because a lot of people are frowning. I just asked them to give (it) a few days," Valentine said, according to The Boston Globe."

 

I wonder who was frowning. I like the tougher than usual approach, hopefully he sticks with it.

[a700hitter]

"When I look at the program we devised, I don't think of it as tough. But it seems it's different because a lot of people are frowning. I just asked them to give (it) a few days," Valentine said, according to The Boston Globe."

 

I wonder who was frowning. I like the tougher than usual approach, hopefully he sticks with it.

The Sox should probably put in a call to Fisk to have him visit camp. He'd give Bobby V some forceful backup on this new program.

[jung]

You would think these guys would not want to repeat the start of last season. We keep pointing to September and musing over what might have happened without the September collapse. The real message of warning for the 2011 Sox was the miserable ST followed by the awful start to the regular season that they had.

 

Anyway whatever attitude they came out of that ST with, whatever they were or were not prepared to do, they could hardly win a game through that stretch. While I am sure we were all hopeful still at that point, that start should have been the dead giveaway that the 2011 team was in very serious trouble. A slow start is one thing. When you can't hardly even win a game that is something else again. When crunch time came later in the year, they toppled like the house of cards that they were, having never shown the fortitude to come back in games when they were behind by the 7th inning.

 

At any rate as I said at the top, you would think they would want to avoid that again at all costs and would appreciate a ST that might actually prepare them to play regular season baseball.

[a700hitter]

You would think these guys would not want to repeat the start of last season. We keep pointing to September and musing over what might have happened without the September collapse. The real message of warning for the 2011 Sox was the miserable ST followed by the awful start to the regular season that they had.

 

Anyway whatever attitude they came out of that ST with, whatever they were or were not prepared to do, they could hardly win a game through that stretch. While I am sure we were all hopeful still at that point, that start should have been the dead giveaway that the 2011 team was in very serious trouble. A slow start is one thing. When you can't hardly even win a game that is something else again. When crunch time came later in the year, they toppled like the house of cards that they were, having never shown the fortitude to come back in games when they were behind by the 7th inning.

 

At any rate as I said at the top, you would think they would want to avoid that again at all costs and would appreciate a ST that might actually prepare them to play regular season baseball.

Everyone talks about how the Sox were the best team in baseball in the middle of the season and that the collapse was an aberration that would be unlikely to repeat itself. For those of you who think that, you should be reminded that the collapse repeated itself during 2011-- they set a team record for a poor start and they set a record for a poor September. Do you really think that history can't repeat itself? It sort of already did.

[Muggah]

Everyone talks about how the Sox were the best team in baseball in the middle of the season and that the collapse was an aberration that would be unlikely to repeat itself. For those of you who think that' date=' you should be reminded that the collapse repeated itself during 2011-- they set a team record for a poor start and they set a record for a poor September. Do you really think that history can't repeat itself? It sort of already did.[/quote']

 

Very true, but there's a lot of people that don't want to believe that. A lot of fans have the ability to rationalize things like that away--especially at this time of year.

[a700hitter]

Very true' date=' but there's a lot of people that don't want to believe that. A lot of fans have the ability to rationalize things like that away--especially at this time of year.[/quote']Do you meant like believing that the garbage picked from the trash this winter is pitching depth?

[Muggah]

Do you meant like believing that the garbage picked from the trash this winter is pitching depth?

 

Bingo!

[User Name]

The concept of "depth" is not that difficult to understand.

 

If a pitcher is good enough to start games on an MLB team, he's on the starting rotation of an MLB team. Depth constitutes guys who can't make the cut, are recovering from injury, young unproven pitchers or guys who can't pitch a full season.

 

Those who expect able and healthy pitchers to become "pitching depth" need to get a grasp on their expectations.

[FredLynn]

Do you meant like believing that the garbage picked from the trash this winter is pitching depth?

 

One member of that dung heap will be our #5 SP; the others will be making regular appearances to replace our injured three SP. Its not going to be pretty.

[User Name]

Can i get the name of the place where you bought your crystal ball? I want to predict the future too.

[Bellhorn04]

Can i get the name of the place where you bought your crystal ball? I want to predict the future too.

 

He has two of them actually...he's the man with the crystal balls.

[FredLynn]

Can i get the name of the place where you bought your crystal ball? I want to predict the future too.

 

Yes, I COULD tell you.....................but then I would have to kill you.

[User Name]

Good luck with that, for i am Richard Nixon.