Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[CoachC.]

Billy Wagner had a 1.98 ERA and 1.09 WHIP during his time in Boston' date=' he got hit in one game in the playoffs, but guess what? So did Papelbon, so what is your point?[/quote']

 

Really you mean Wagner got hit in a big spot? I mean who could have predicted that? Oh wait thats right, I did. I mean its not like he had a track record or anything

 

You need to go to an eye doctor. Beltre is the superior player. Only you and (lol) Doiji think otherwise.

 

Close offensive production with potential for superior offensive production? Check.

 

Vastly superior defense? Check.

 

Age advantage? Check.

 

Health advantage? Check.

 

Hell, he'll be cheaper in the long run. The logic behind regarding Lowell as the superior player escapes me, so perhaps you could teach me about it with something other than your vastly subjective opinion.

 

I need my eyes checked? Thats laughable, I suggest you hit the eye doctor up and then get hooked on phonics because I would love for you to point out where I said Lowell was superior. I said both ML and Youk are capable of handling third base from a defensive stand point and given that we had not traded Lowell at this point it makes little sense to sign Beltre. Then I said given ML stats last year there is no real offensive up grade. ML hit 290 and 17 HR's and you projecting Beltre out at 270 and possibly 25 HR's. That is not a significant upgrade by any means from last year. It doesn't matter the names or the ages that is what the Red Sox got out of there third baseman last year and we are trying to upgrade the offense from last year so when the stats are nearly the same its not an upgrade. Your getting the same production that didn't get it done in 2009 and extending that same production for 4 more years.

 

Like i said before the Red Sox need to get on the horn with S.D. and start seriously discussing a move for AGonz .277 40hrs and a 408 OBP IS an offensive upgrade over a departing Lowell. Move Youk to third with his production and now we are actually upgrading the offense.

[Dipre]

Really you mean Wagner got hit in a big spot? I mean who could have predicted that? Oh wait thats right' date=' I did. I mean its not like he had a track record or anything[/quote']

 

A track record?

 

Hilarity.

 

Please show it to us.

 

You're talking like the series was lost because of Wagner, iirc, it was because the offense disappeared. Please keep things into the proper context, your hindsight opinions hold little to no value.

 

 

I need my eyes checked? Thats laughable, I suggest you hit the eye doctor up and then get hooked on phonics because I would love for you to point out where I said Lowell was superior. I said both ML and Youk are capable of handling third base from a defensive stand point and given that we had not traded Lowell at this point it makes little sense to sign Beltre. Then I said given ML stats last year there is no real offensive up grade. ML hit 290 and 17 HR's and you projecting Beltre out at 270 and possibly 25 HR's. That is not a significant upgrade by any means from last year. It doesn't matter the names or the ages that is what the Red Sox got out of there third baseman last year and we are trying to upgrade the offense from last year so when the stats are nearly the same its not an upgrade. Your getting the same production that didn't get it done in 2009 and extending that same production for 4 more years.

 

Like i said before the Red Sox need to get on the horn with S.D. and start seriously discussing a move for AGonz .277 40hrs and a 408 OBP IS an offensive upgrade over a departing Lowell. Move Youk to third with his production and now we are actually upgrading the offense.

 

Here's the problem, champ. Theo tried that, but guess what? It takes two teams to make a trade, i've been the biggest proponent of A-Gon to the Sox since July, so don't come talking about like it's "Obviously your idea", but the fact is that Theo needs to keep his options open, and if he can't reel in A-Gon (and it looks like he can't), he'd be better off upgrading defensively. Or would you rather he got caught with his pants down like last year?

 

I love how you say "Theo has to pick up the phone" like he can go to SD and tell Hoyer "I want A-Gon and that's that. Logic please.

 

By the way, you were talking about Beltre's "lack of power", now you just changed your tune to "i never said Lowell was superior" but you sure implied it. Pick an argument and stick to it.

[RedSoxRooter]

I'm personally annoyed that friends of mine who live here in Atlanta think the Wagner deal sucks. The dude rocked for his time in Boston. I forget the one bad outing just like I forget the really really really bad Papelbon outing. Next year I'll be happy to have Paps and wish the sox had played Arroyo-like hardball with Wagner and picked up that option... you know, for the better of the team.

[Dipre]

I'm personally annoyed that friends of mine who live here in Atlanta think the Wagner deal sucks. The dude rocked for his time in Boston. I forget the one bad outing just like I forget the really really really bad Papelbon outing. Next year I'll be happy to have Paps and wish the sox had played Arroyo-like hardball with Wagner and picked up that option... you know' date=' for the better of the team.[/quote']

 

Are you crazy????

 

What about his track record of s***ing the bed on big games......oh wait.....that doesn't exist.

[GWSoxFan]

I'm personally annoyed that friends of mine who live here in Atlanta think the Wagner deal sucks. The dude rocked for his time in Boston. I forget the one bad outing just like I forget the really really really bad Papelbon outing. Next year I'll be happy to have Paps and wish the sox had played Arroyo-like hardball with Wagner and picked up that option... you know' date=' for the better of the team.[/quote']

 

I'm actually on board with them. Don't get me wrong, Wagner was great for us last year, and I would have loved it if the Sox could have kept him for the right price, but I'm not sure I would have paid $7 million for him and given up a top 20 pick (assuming they don't sign another type A).

[GWSoxFan]

A track record?

 

Hilarity.

 

Please show it to us.

 

 

 

In 13 career post-season appearances he has a 10.32 ERA. Not a huge sample, but not miniscule either, and a very high ERA. In fact, the lowest ERA he's posted in a single year in the playoffs was 5.40 in 2001, so its not like he's been good and its been negated by a couple of really bad outings. He's been consistantly bad in the post-season.

[Dipre]

In 13 career post-season appearances he has a 10.32 ERA. Not a huge sample' date=' but not miniscule either, and a very high ERA. In fact, the lowest ERA he's posted in a single year in the playoffs was 5.40 in 2001, so its not like he's been good and its been negated by a couple of really bad outings. He's been consistantly bad in the post-season.[/quote']

 

11.1 innings. That is representative of absolutely nothing.

[Emmz]

In 13 career post-season appearances he has a 10.32 ERA. Not a huge sample' date=' [b']but not miniscule either[/b], and a very high ERA. In fact, the lowest ERA he's posted in a single year in the playoffs was 5.40 in 2001, so its not like he's been good and its been negated by a couple of really bad outings. He's been consistantly bad in the post-season.

 

11.1 innings. That is representative of absolutely nothing.

 

Yes it is

[yeszir]

I'd like to remind everyone that Talksox isn't a contest to see who can be the biggest dismissive bully. This isn't a joke, so don't quote me and try to be funny.

[GWSoxFan]

11.1 innings. That is representative of absolutely nothing.

 

He has given up at least one run in 7 of 13 career postseason appearances. He's given up 2 or more runs in 5 of 13. If it was 2 or 3 bad outings then I might be inclined to agree with you, but giving up a run in more than half the appearances makes it look, to me at least, like there may be more there.

[SCM33]

11.1 innings. That is representative of absolutely nothing.

 

I have been generally agreeing with you lately, but 11 innings, for a reliever....more importantly a closer.....is a pretty good amount. Thats 11 games for a closer. A reliever who has poor numbers through 11 outings, generally has a poor season.

[Keeper]

Emmz, you're a fairly knowledgable baseball fan for a girl. And we all know you've got a thing for Dipre, but for God's sake can you stop agreeing with every single one of his posts? You are like his echo.

[Dipre]

He has given up at least one run in 7 of 13 career postseason appearances. He's given up 2 or more runs in 5 of 13. If it was 2 or 3 bad outings then I might be inclined to agree with you' date=' but giving up a run in more than half the appearances makes it look, to me at least, like there may be more there.[/quote']

 

Player A:

 

Regular season:

 

833.2 IP, 385 saves, 2.39 ERA, 1.009 WHIP.

 

Player B:

 

330.1 IP, 70 saves, 4.28 ERA, 1.424 WHIP.

 

Postseason:

 

Player A:

 

11.1 IP, 10.32 ERA, 1.941 WHIP.

 

Player B:

 

7.2 IP, 2.35 ERA, 1.4 WHIP.

 

 

Player B is Fernando Rodney. Even with the sample size from the playoffs, if you had to choose one to set up for Papelbon in the playoffs, who would you choose?

[Dipre]

Emmz' date=' you're a fairly knowledgable baseball fan for a girl. And we all know you've got a thing for Dipre, but for God's sake can you stop agreeing with every single one of his posts? You are like his echo.[/quote']

 

Dude.

 

Seriously?

[Emmz]

Emmz' date=' you're a fairly knowledgable baseball fan for a girl. And we all know you've got a thing for Dipre, but for God's sake can you stop agreeing with every single one of his posts? You are like his echo.[/quote']

 

What does this have to do with anything?

 

Why would you try and incite something like this?

 

We've had our fair share of differences, so I'd suggest you back off.

[Dipre]

yeszir, i would like to ask what exactly has been the problem with the last few pages of conversation. It's baseball talk, and no specific personal insults have been thrown around, so what exactly is the problem?

[Keeper]

I find it annoying, that's all. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[yeszir]

I find it annoying' date=' that's all. I'm sure I'm not the only one.[/quote']

 

You aren't.

[Dipre]

I find it annoying' date=' that's all. I'm sure I'm not the only one.[/quote']

 

So if by pure randomness two people have got similar view on most things regarding a baseball team, then that has to annoy everyone else?

 

I got you.

[Dipre]

You aren't.

 

Ok, so we'll start disagreeing on everything from now on.

 

Wow.

[yeszir]

Back to hot stove discussion woohoo.

[GWSoxFan]

Player A:

 

Regular season:

 

833.2 IP, 385 saves, 2.39 ERA, 1.009 WHIP.

 

Player B:

 

330.1 IP, 70 saves, 4.28 ERA, 1.424 WHIP.

 

Postseason:

 

Player A:

 

11.1 IP, 10.32 ERA, 1.941 WHIP.

 

Player B:

 

7.2 IP, 2.35 ERA, 1.4 WHIP.

 

 

Player B is Fernando Rodney. Even with the sample size from the playoffs, if you had to choose one to set up for Papelbon in the playoffs, who would you choose?

 

I'd choose Wagner, but that doesn't mean I think his postseason numbers are an aberration.

[Emmz]

I find it annoying' date=' that's all. I'm sure I'm not the only one.[/quote']

 

Because there aren't a lot of people who have constant agreement with each other

 

Not to mention, it's not the place. If you have a problem with the s*** I do on the site, take it to a PM.

 

To be honest, I don't even take part in the baseball discussion a lot. I'm usually in off-topic posts, or in football, or basketball, etc.

 

It's ridiculous.

[Dipre]

I'd choose Wagner' date=' but that doesn't mean I think his postseason numbers are an aberration.[/quote']

 

Well all indications seem to point out they are.

 

Look, if Wagner's regular season resume wasn't so stellar and extensive, i'd probably agree with you, but his resume is too strong to consider 11 IP an indication of his ability (or lack thereof) to pitch playoff baseball.

[Emmz]

You aren't.

 

Wow, I don't even post in the same topics as Dipre very much.

 

He's usually in baseball discussions, and I like to move around from General Discussion, Football Discussion, and Basketball.

[Dipre]

I guess that since everyone has such a problem with me (and everyone who agrees with me apparently) that i should just leave the site.

 

Come to think about it, that's exactly what i'm going to do.

 

Peace.

[GWSoxFan]

Well all indications seem to point out they are.

 

Look, if Wagner's regular season resume wasn't so stellar and extensive, i'd probably agree with you, but his resume is too strong to consider 11 IP an indication of his ability (or lack thereof) to pitch playoff baseball.

 

See, the thing is, I actually have a fairly favorable opinion of Wagner. I would have loved it if the Sox could have kept him. However, if I was the Braves I would not have given up my first round pick and paid $7 million for him, and I'm not convinced that the 11IP aren't indicative of a potential postseason problem that is likely to continue.

 

On another note (one I'm pretty sure we agree on), if the Sox can get Max Ramirez for Lowell and sign Beltre, I think that's a job well done by Theo at the meetings.

[WhiskeyBreath]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/rangers-red-sox-talking-lowell-deal.html

 

I figured for a deal to go down Boston would have to absorb just about all of Lowell's salary.

[Emmz]

I guess that since everyone has such a problem with me (and everyone who agrees with me apparently) that i should just leave the site.

 

Come to think about it, that's exactly what i'm going to do.

 

Peace.

 

Hey, Dipre... I agree with you.

 

Peace out.

[Keeper]

That was a bit of an overreaction.