Boston Red Sox, Houston Astros Engaging in Trade Talks

[JoeBrady]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe he ends up at DH, since we all know that slot is not logjammed... LOL!

If he hits like is was supposed to, the he can get regular reps as a short-side DH platoon, a backup LF, and an emergency 2B.  That provides value, and he can work on his 2B skills in winter ball.  2 years ago, Romy was scary at 2nd, and now he is borderline okay.  Or at least unnoticeable.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

If he hits like is was supposed to, the he can get regular reps as a short-side DH platoon, a backup LF, and an emergency 2B.  That provides value, and he can work on his 2B skills in winter ball.  2 years ago, Romy was scary at 2nd, and now he is borderline okay.  Or at least unnoticeable.

I don't think Campbell lost his hitting skills overnight.

I think he will be a very good to great MLB batter. I think he'll be good enough to be a FT DH, if he can't earn a defensive role.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't think Campbell lost his hitting skills overnight.

I think he will be a very good to great MLB batter. I think he'll be good enough to be a FT DH, if he can't earn a defensive role.

It's ok to say Campbell was just rushed to MLB and wasn't quite ready.

[Behindenemylines]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't think Campbell lost his hitting skills overnight.

I think he will be a very good to great MLB batter. I think he'll be good enough to be a FT DH, if he can't earn a defensive role.

After his fast start the pitchers changed their approach to him, and he didn't make the adjustment. Good hitters are constantly making those adjustments.

[moonslav59]

53 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's ok to say Campbell was just rushed to MLB and wasn't quite ready.

That very well could be the reason. It could have just been a bad slump that he was one game away from breaking out of.

[mvp 78]

27 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That very well could be the reason. It could have just been a bad slump that he was one game away from breaking out of.

He never broke out of it after being sent down. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He never broke out of it after being sent down. 

Not for a long while, so it was unlikely he might have at the MLB level.

To me, it's hard to assign blame on one thing and be sure about it.

I do agree that he was rushed, but it just my opinion and the results seem to support it.

[notin]

So who is balking at Bello for Paredes straight up?

[notin]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

He never broke out of it after being sent down. 

He was a sad panda…

[Michigan Adam2]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

So who is balking at Bello for Paredes straight up?

Latest rumor i saw on social media was abreau for parades.  Probably like thst better than durran...although the loss of power is unfortunate. 

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, notin said:

So who is balking at Bello for Paredes straight up?

Sox will try hard to get more, but might buckle.

Not sure if they are in on Suarez and waiting to see if he takes their low-ball offer.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Michigan Adam2 said:

Latest rumor i saw on social media was abreau for parades.  Probably like thst better than durran...although the loss of power is unfortunate. 

I've heard the Astros really want Abreu. He has that 4th year, 2 GGs and seems poised to bust out.

For those reasons, and Fenway's RF, I am leaning towards Duran going.

BTV accepted Crawford for Paredes. I'd give Kutter & Sandlin for IP.

[Michigan Adam2]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I've heard the Astros really want Abreu. He has that 4th year, 2 GGs and seems poised to bust out.

For those reasons, and Fenway's RF, I am leaning towards Duran going.

BTV accepted Crawford for Paredes. I'd give Kutter & Sandlin for IP.

It takes two to make a trade. Houston may just draw the line for abreau. Maybe you can get to sweeten the pot or expand the deal. 

[moonslav59]

Just now, Michigan Adam2 said:

It takes two to make a trade. Houston may just draw the line for abreau. Maybe you can get to sweeten the pot or expand the deal. 

For sure. They might not want Crawford for a couple bats, for all I know.

I also realize throwing two lesser players together rarely works, unless the team is in total rebuild mode and the multiple players have promise. That's not the Astros.

I do think Duran, Abreu & Bello have more value than Paredes, and BTV agrees by a lot, BTV does not have the final say, either.

I'm on the fence offering any of those 3 as a one for one deal. I think the Astros should have to give us King, Abreu, Sousa of Janek. Maybe we add DHam, Mullins or some mid level prospect to help them say yes.

[FredLynn]

47 minutes ago, notin said:

So who is balking at Bello for Paredes straight up?

I'm not trading Bello. Trade someone else for Paredes. Sonny Gray?

[Michigan Adam2]

38 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

For sure. They might not want Crawford for a couple bats, for all I know.

I also realize throwing two lesser players together rarely works, unless the team is in total rebuild mode and the multiple players have promise. That's not the Astros.

I do think Duran, Abreu & Bello have more value than Paredes, and BTV agrees by a lot, BTV does not have the final say, either.

I'm on the fence offering any of those 3 as a one for one deal. I think the Astros should have to give us King, Abreu, Sousa of Janek. Maybe we add DHam, Mullins or some mid level prospect to help them say yes.

Exactly. They may draw the line with the best player in the deal, but that doesn't mean you can't get a couple more prospects in the deal. 

[JoeBrady]

27 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I'm not trading Bello. Trade someone else for Paredes. Sonny Gray?

That's the stupidest, dumbest, err, wait, I'm finding a reason to object.

I'm going to risk having my PC self-destruct, but that idea works pretty well. I'd have said flat no before Suarez.

But my logic for a Bello-Paredes type swap was that out 5-6-7 guys might not be that much worse than Bello still applies.  Bello might not be that much worse than Gray.  It's a slippery slope, but at least I'd be happy knowing that it would effectively be Paredes for Clark & Fitts.  That's pretty good.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

That's the stupidest, dumbest, err, wait, I'm finding a reason to object.

I'm going to risk having my PC self-destruct, but that idea works pretty well. I'd have said flat no before Suarez.

But my logic for a Bello-Paredes type swap was that out 5-6-7 guys might not be that much worse than Bello still applies.  Bello might not be that much worse than Gray.  It's a slippery slope, but at least I'd be happy knowing that it would effectively be Paredes for Clark & Fitts.  That's pretty good.

And think of the money JH saves!

[JoeBrady]

28 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

And think of the money JH saves!

I'm waiting for that.  Fred will recommend trading Gray for Paredes and then complain that we traded Gray for Paredes.

[drewski6]

10 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I'm not trading Bello. Trade someone else for Paredes. Sonny Gray?

Other than the optics of it, getting someone to waive their NTC to come here then immediately flipping them...Im also not 100% the union wouldnt make a stink

But on the other hand, Gray was compensated to remove the NTC (he had additional money guaranteed), so maybe that kind of gives us the freedom to treat him like currency because he was paid extra for an allowance to move around.

Im not sure exactly on this kind of stuff - but if theyll take it and the union will allow it and its all on the up and up, sure.  NOt sure if like when we traded for Gray if the NTC was removed completely, or if this was a one time exception to it, or if he was given other assurances to not be flipped again.

But gun to my head, I prob make the Bello for Paredes swap straight up regardless of what BTV says and I do think its wrong on Paredes trade value. I think its higher than what they show.

[moonslav59]

I'm not Gray, because we need him. There is a drop off between him and Bello, and then another one from Bello to the mix of Oviedo/Sandoval/Crawford/Harrison, and then the prospects, who offer higher upside but more uncertainty.

[mvp 78]

16 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Not for a long while, so it was unlikely he might have at the MLB level.

To me, it's hard to assign blame on one thing and be sure about it.

I do agree that he was rushed, but it just my opinion and the results seem to support it.

The swoon came after a rib strain/injury. He never recovered. Unsure if it bothered him all year, but makes more sense than "he lost weight and forgot how to hit AAA pitching." 

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, notin said:

So who is balking at Bello for Paredes straight up?

Not me. 

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I've heard the Astros really want Abreu. He has that 4th year, 2 GGs and seems poised to bust out.

For those reasons, and Fenway's RF, I am leaning towards Duran going.

BTV accepted Crawford for Paredes. I'd give Kutter & Sandlin for IP.

I don't see HOU accepting that deal.

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I'm not trading Bello. Trade someone else for Paredes. Sonny Gray?

No.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

The swoon came after a rib strain/injury. He never recovered. Unsure if it bothered him all year, but makes more sense than "he lost weight and forgot how to hit AAA pitching." 

The guy is a hitter. I'm not worries about his hit tool.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't see HOU accepting that deal.

Me 2.

Word is that HOU wants an OF'er. A lot of talk about Abreu, but I think they'd take any of ours.

If we could get a lefty RP'er and or Janek for one, I'd do it.

[FredLynn]

4 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Other than the optics of it, getting someone to waive their NTC to come here then immediately flipping them...Im also not 100% the union wouldnt make a stink

But on the other hand, Gray was compensated to remove the NTC (he had additional money guaranteed), so maybe that kind of gives us the freedom to treat him like currency because he was paid extra for an allowance to move around.

Im not sure exactly on this kind of stuff - but if theyll take it and the union will allow it and its all on the up and up, sure.  NOt sure if like when we traded for Gray if the NTC was removed completely, or if this was a one time exception to it, or if he was given other assurances to not be flipped again.

But gun to my head, I prob make the Bello for Paredes swap straight up regardless of what BTV says and I do think its wrong on Paredes trade value. I think its higher than what they show.

I was joking about trading Gray. He just got here and I think he will make the rotation better, though he is not a #2 SP. I wouldn't mess with our top pitchers, including Bello. I don't know what would fit for Houston in a trade for Paredes but it seems he would improve the offense-not enough to compete for a ring, but better.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

The guy is a hitter. I'm not worries about his hit tool.

He got outhit by Tomas Nido in the winter league. 

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I was joking about trading Gray. He just got here and I think he will make the rotation better, though he is not a #2 SP. I wouldn't mess with our top pitchers, including Bello. I don't know what would fit for Houston in a trade for Paredes but it seems he would improve the offense-not enough to compete for a ring, but better.

I think Paredes gets us very close to top contender status. At worst, we'd be top of tier 2.

Fangraphs has us 7th (4th in the AL.) We are 0.3 from 8th (PHI) and0.8 from 6th (SEA) That sounds about right.

Adding Paredes would jump us up to about #5 (ATL 45.4, as we are at 44.2, now.) One can argue if top 5 is a top contender or not. I'd say it's borderline as the LAD< NYY, NYM and TOR look significantly better, although I have my doubts about the NYY being over-rated.