Bregman to sign 5 yr 175 million deal with the Cubs

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Brez not communicating well probably did not help the Bregman situation at all according to reports from the very outset.

Hard to know, but it probably did not help.

[mvp 78]

31 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yeah I'd agree with all that. 

I think Duran likely has to go for prospects now. There doesn't seem a natural fit for another infielder, and the prospects (or ours) can be flipped. We should be be able to get a very decent haul of prospects for him. 

But when it comes down to it, I'd quite like him to stay now. This offence is lacking already, subtracting him would hurt us all the more, even with last year being a down year.

I think he's ultimately more valuable to the Red Sox which is why they haven't traded him. It's more likely that he's still here on 4/1 than elsewhere. It's not a perfect fit for the roster, but it's really a Masa problem not a Duran problem when it comes down to it. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes. How am I contradicting that?

I don't really consider the Masa, Story and Suarez deal as all that "large and long," but they are significant.

I was speaking to those who felt JH would not even pay enough to sign E Suarez, but even then, I never claimed he would. My position has been I don't know and I'm not optimistic. Others claimed "He will not," like it was a sure fact.

This is a significant signing. $130M is kinda large. 5 years is long enough to be called "long," but in my view, just barely. We spent less on Ranger, figuring inflation, than Story, but who cares?

We added a major piece to help us win more games. It never hurts to add at or near the top of the rotation. This was unexpected, by me, but I love the signing. I think we ha ve some players and prospects, some who look logjammed by position. I hope we trade the right people for the right player(s.)

I don't know how many people were saying he won't, just that "he hadn't" since 2019. This is the first time he's gone over the 2nd threshold in a long time. He retracted his spending. There were reports from Speier that they wouldn't go over the 2nd threshold, but now they have. You can't be mad at people for listening to Alex Speier, a guy with real, insider knowledge.

My guess is that they wanted Bregman, got pie in the face and pivoted to Suarez. Now they need to go out and find a cheaper solution at 2B or 3B. They wouldn't have signed Suarez if they had signed Bregman.

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't know how many people were saying he won't, just that "he hadn't" since 2019. This is the first time he's gone over the 2nd threshold in a long time. He retracted his spending. There were reports from Speier that they wouldn't go over the 2nd threshold, but now they have. You can't be mad at people for listening to Alex Speier, a guy with real, insider knowledge.

My guess is that they wanted Bregman, got pie in the face and pivoted to Suarez. Now they need to go out and find a cheaper solution at 2B or 3B. They wouldn't have signed Suarez if they had signed Bregman.

I agree 100% especially on the last paragraph. Bregman was plan A all along, and Brez it seems did not handle the negotiations all that well, and hopefully humble pie it was.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I agree 100% especially on the last paragraph. Bregman was plan A all along, and Brez it seems did not handle the negotiations all that well, and hopefully humble pie it was.

Bregman didn't really want him last year. Maybe he didn't really want him this year? 

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bregman didn't really want him last year. Maybe he didn't really want him this year? 

If you listen to the interview of AJ Piersynski talking about the negotiations it doesn’t really sound like it.

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think he's ultimately more valuable to the Red Sox which is why they haven't traded him. It's more likely that he's still here on 4/1 than elsewhere. It's not a perfect fit for the roster, but it's really a Masa problem not a Duran problem when it comes down to it. 

I gotta think Duran is worth more to several other teams as an OF'er than to us as a DH/4th OF.

I also think there is a chance Masa equals Duran's 2026 OPS, although Duran brings much more to the offense than just OPS.

I think he gets traded. Even if we find a way to dump Yoshida, I still think the value to the Sox is less than the value to another team. That being said, our offense is our weakest area, and he is a top 2-3 player on offense on the team, so unless we upgrade elsewhere (3B/2B?) then keeping Duran makes a lot of sense. However, now the talk switches to trading a better defensive OF'er, like Abreu or Rafaela.

We also have Campbell/Masa/Romy/Eaton as OF depth.

We also have Campbell/Romy as DH depth.

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't know how many people were saying he won't, just that "he hadn't" since 2019. This is the first time he's gone over the 2nd threshold in a long time. He retracted his spending. There were reports from Speier that they wouldn't go over the 2nd threshold, but now they have. You can't be mad at people for listening to Alex Speier, a guy with real, insider knowledge.

My guess is that they wanted Bregman, got pie in the face and pivoted to Suarez. Now they need to go out and find a cheaper solution at 2B or 3B. They wouldn't have signed Suarez if they had signed Bregman.

When I'm wrong, you and others call me out. It's not getting "mad."

I guess I'm not allowed to point out others' miscalls- reasonable or not.

[drewski6]

36 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't know how many people were saying he won't, just that "he hadn't" since 2019. This is the first time he's gone over the 2nd threshold in a long time. He retracted his spending. There were reports from Speier that they wouldn't go over the 2nd threshold, but now they have. You can't be mad at people for listening to Alex Speier, a guy with real, insider knowledge.

My guess is that they wanted Bregman, got pie in the face and pivoted to Suarez. Now they need to go out and find a cheaper solution at 2B or 3B. They wouldn't have signed Suarez if they had signed Bregman.

Yeah, feels like chasing Bregman puts other moves into light as well (e.g. going with the less costly Contreras at 1b instead of Alonso).

They went hard after Bregman and that fell through, and so they repuropsed the bulk of the money they had considered spent- and now they have to make some balancing moves.

[Hitch]

37 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't know how many people were saying he won't, just that "he hadn't" since 2019. This is the first time he's gone over the 2nd threshold in a long time. He retracted his spending. There were reports from Speier that they wouldn't go over the 2nd threshold, but now they have. You can't be mad at people for listening to Alex Speier, a guy with real, insider knowledge.

My guess is that they wanted Bregman, got pie in the face and pivoted to Suarez. Now they need to go out and find a cheaper solution at 2B or 3B. They wouldn't have signed Suarez if they had signed Bregman.

I do wonder if they regret the Gray deal now. I'd be curious to know if they'd still do that knowing Suarez walks in the door two months later. My gut tells me no and that they'd like it to spend that $21m elsewhere. 

That said, Bres loves his pitchers. 

[drewski6]

45 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think he's ultimately more valuable to the Red Sox which is why they haven't traded him. It's more likely that he's still here on 4/1 than elsewhere. It's not a perfect fit for the roster, but it's really a Masa problem not a Duran problem when it comes down to it. 

Also, Duran has become a leader in the clubhouse - maybe THE LEADER now that Bregman is a Cub.

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I do wonder if they regret the Gray deal now. I'd be curious to know if they'd still do that knowing Suarez walks in the door two months later. My gut tells me no and that they'd like it to spend that $21m elsewhere. 

That said, Bres loves his pitchers. 

I dont think they regret the dollars because its just one year and like you say, Bres loves his pitchers.

Way I see it: Crochet gets hurt = season over cant hedge against that. But now if one of Gray/Suarez gets hurt- youll still have another great option behind crochet, then I assume one of Early/Tolle will take a major step forward, so thats at least 3 there.

So I think Gray kind of becomes insurnce, but hes worth it as that.  And of course, there is a possibility that all 3 pitchers will be healthy for playoffs.  I do think by then Tolle will be knocking the door down, but if so, theyll find a way to have him help.

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I gotta think Duran is worth more to several other teams as an OF'er than to us as a DH/4th OF.

I also think there is a chance Masa equals Duran's 2026 OPS, although Duran brings much more to the offense than just OPS.

I think he gets traded. Even if we find a way to dump Yoshida, I still think the value to the Sox is less than the value to another team. That being said, our offense is our weakest area, and he is a top 2-3 player on offense on the team, so unless we upgrade elsewhere (3B/2B?) then keeping Duran makes a lot of sense. However, now the talk switches to trading a better defensive OF'er, like Abreu or Rafaela.

We also have Campbell/Masa/Romy/Eaton as OF depth.

We also have Campbell/Romy as DH depth.

I don’t think if other teams want Duran it would be because of his Butterfly Man ability in the OF.

[UtahSox]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I gotta think Duran is worth more to several other teams as an OF'er than to us as a DH/4th OF.

I also think there is a chance Masa equals Duran's 2026 OPS, although Duran brings much more to the offense than just OPS.

I think he gets traded. Even if we find a way to dump Yoshida, I still think the value to the Sox is less than the value to another team. That being said, our offense is our weakest area, and he is a top 2-3 player on offense on the team, so unless we upgrade elsewhere (3B/2B?) then keeping Duran makes a lot of sense. However, now the talk switches to trading a better defensive OF'er, like Abreu or Rafaela.

We also have Campbell/Masa/Romy/Eaton as OF depth.

We also have Campbell/Romy as DH depth.

I’ve seen on X, one of Sox fanatical fan accounts stated….  Arizona wants Mayer + Early. Is there a world where we trade those 2 for Marte?

And then go land a Paredes or Donovan (can play solid 3b per my cardinals friend) offering some combo of Bello, young SP Not named Tolle, Casas, Campbell? This has already been discussed.
What does Paredes profile look like in Fenway?

keep the 4 OFers… keeping them fresh rotating DH spot. Very similar to last year? 

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think if other teams want Duran it would be because of his Butterfly Man ability in the OF.

He's not as bad as you think. He'd be used as an OF'er by more teams than as a DH.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

I’ve seen on X, one of Sox fanatical fan accounts stated….  Arizona wants Mayer + Early. Is there a world where we trade those 2 for Marte?

And then go land a Paredes or Donovan (can play solid 3b per my cardinals friend) offering some combo of Bello, young SP Not named Tolle, Casas, Campbell? This has already been discussed.
What does Paredes profile look like in Fenway?

keep the 4 OFers… keeping them fresh rotating DH spot. Very similar to last year? 

IMO, Paredes will be a beast in 2026. He's a pull hitter, so maybe he hits 50 with BOS, but maybe they pitch him away, and he hits 25 and .790.

Maybe we can involve a 3rd team with AZ to get out of that full demand, if that is indeed the only players they want. Could PHI send AZ Painter, if we gave them Duran + Crawford/Harrison/Sandoval? Would Painter + Mayer be enough for Marte? Painter + Tolle or Early?

If we traded Mayer in the marte deal, we'd still need a 3Bman. Could we afford KMarte + Suarez? (I guess nope.)

[UtahSox]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If we traded Mayer in the marte deal, we'd still need a 3Bman. Could we afford KMarte + Suarez? (I guess nope.)

I agree that’s not in the realm of possible.. BUT trading for both Marte & Paredes seems far fetched, yet doable. Depending on who you give up for Paredes that would make the 2026 very exciting. 

Anthony, Marte, Paredes, Contreras, Duran, Story, Abreu, Rafaela, Narvaez w/ Romy and Masa 1st 2 off bench that would be AL East front runner team. Assuming Paredes performs .750+ 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

I agree that’s not in the realm of possible.. BUT trading for both Marte & Paredes seems far fetched, yet doable. Depending on who you give up for Paredes that would make the 2026 very exciting. 

Anthony, Marte, Paredes, Contreras, Duran, Story, Abreu, Rafaela, Narvaez w/ Romy and Masa 1st 2 off bench that would be AL East front runner team. Assuming Paredes performs .750+ 

If we got Marte and Paredes and lost Duran, Tolle, 2 from Crawford, Sandoval & Harrison, plus maybe some midtier prospects, I'd be projecting us as a top 3 team witha good chance at a ring.

[mvp 78]

42 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Also, Duran has become a leader in the clubhouse - maybe THE LEADER now that Bregman is a Cub.

The team leader can't be a guy who craps all over himself whenever he pops up. 

[Hitch]

44 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

I’ve seen on X, one of Sox fanatical fan accounts stated….  Arizona wants Mayer + Early. Is there a world where we trade those 2 for Marte?

And then go land a Paredes or Donovan (can play solid 3b per my cardinals friend) offering some combo of Bello, young SP Not named Tolle, Casas, Campbell? This has already been discussed.
What does Paredes profile look like in Fenway?

keep the 4 OFers… keeping them fresh rotating DH spot. Very similar to last year? 

I don't do that. And neither do the Sox. Earlier in the season I would have considered a 1 for 1 or Mayer, but they do it now, they'd STILL need a 3rd baseman as well. 

Mayer is out 2nd/3rd baseman with Romy platooning. Can't see that changing now. 

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

I'm pretty sure they're going to keep spending. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see some money come off the books, which is why I feel a Bello (or Sandoval if there's a market) could be going for the infield help.

They've got a free hit now. Reset next year on LT with new bargain deal. Next year is Year 1 being over. After that - no more Yoshi or Story (and obviously Gray). So we've got breathing room and hopefully a few more position players start looking ready (Arias). 

We're at $184.6 now for 2027, plus maybe $51M for arb and options.  My guess is that the players main objection will be an increase in the tax levels, so maybe call 2027 a $252M cap, giving us ~ $16M to cover closer and 3B.  If we did something like Duran for Paredes+, we could stay under the cap.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess I'm not allowed to point out others' miscalls- reasonable or not.

No.  There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

I just wanted to use that quote.  But a gentleman takes satisfaction in knowing that he was right; not in pointing out that others were wrong.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

I do wonder if they regret the Gray deal now.

I doubt it.  We'd simply be talking about needing an upgrade at #3 instead.  I'm not guaranteeing anything with Gray, but I wouldn't turn down a deal like that regardless of what future plans might be.

[JoeBrady]

57 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He's not as bad as you think. He'd be used as an OF'er by more teams than as a DH.

He has to be in CF.  His defensive skills are pedestrian outside of world-class speed.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

He has to be in CF.  His defensive skills are pedestrian outside of world-class speed.

They have a world-class CFer. Let Duran be pedestrian in LF. 

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

He has to be in CF.  His defensive skills are pedestrian outside of world-class speed.

You make good point, but big LF in Yankee Stadium fits much better for him than Fenway.

In some ways, we could say Fenway is the worst fit for Duran as a LF'er.

[JoeBrady]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You make good point, but big LF in Yankee Stadium fits much better for him than Fenway.

In some ways, we could say Fenway is the worst fit for Duran as a LF'er.

Similar to signing Crawford.  What good is speed when you play your back to the wall?

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Similar to signing Crawford.  What good is speed when you play your back to the wall?

What good is speed if you have to move a platinum glove defender off position? 

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Similar to signing Crawford.  What good is speed when you play your back to the wall?

Yup. His D metrics fell off a cliff moving from the Trop to Fenway.

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

What good is speed if you have to move a platinum glove defender off position? 

Better to move the speedster to another team.