Why sign Houck and Casas?

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Well....it IS his money and he has the right to spend it any way he wants. But the lack of willingness to spend the revenue on player salaries in order to make the team competitive is inconsistent with what in fact are his lies about wanting the team to win. He knows all too well what it would take to win-$$$ and good judgement. The good judgement part isn't directly his responsibility but the $$$ is something over which he has more direct control. He is feeding us fans a bunch of ********, claiming that he wants to win but isn't willing to spend the available money to do it.

You can "want your team to win" but still not go all in to make it happen.

If every team spent "the money available to spend" we'd be in close to the same situation.

Look, I wish he'd spend close to the same "share" others do. I'm not a communist, so unless you are, where is the outrage over our whole capitalistic system? (Not getting political here, but JH is no different than most owners seeking to maximize profits. Singling him out seems a bit out of whack.)

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Well....it IS his money and he has the right to spend it any way he wants. But the lack of willingness to spend the revenue on player salaries in order to make the team competitive is inconsistent with what in fact are his lies about wanting the team to win. He knows all too well what it would take to win-$$$ and good judgement. The good judgement part isn't directly his responsibility but the $$$ is something over which he has more direct control. He is feeding us fans a bunch of ********, claiming that he wants to win but isn't willing to spend the available money to do it.

It's the "full throttle" type statements by his minions that are dishonest and deceitful. At least just be honest.

 

[FredLynn]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You can "want your team to win" but still not go all in to make it happen.

If every team spent "the money available to spend" we'd be in close to the same situation.

Look, I wish he'd spend close to the same "share" others do. I'm not a communist, so unless you are, where is the outrage over our whole capitalistic system? (Not getting political here, but JH is no different than most owners seeking to maximize profits. Singling him out seems a bit out of whack.)

What bothers me more, I think, than he unwillingness to spend revenue on salaries, is that he lies about his desire to win championships. He is not an idiot; he knows it takes money to do that most of the time. But he lies to the face of the Sox fans unapologetically. Thats BS. He is exposed for what he is: a liar and a cheapskate.

[FredLynn]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's the "full throttle" type statements by his minions that are dishonest and deceitful. At least just be honest.

 

EXACTLY! I could swallow "I intend to make the franchise a small budget team and try to win that way". I wouldn't like it, but at least it is honest.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's the "full throttle" type statements by his minions that are dishonest and deceitful. At least just be honest.

 

I wouldn’t call TW one of his minions, and that’s who said it. I don’t think he meant any more of it than when he led the Let’s Go Red Sox chant. That statement didn’t bother me at all unlike what Sam spews out on a yearly basis when he says it’s the Red Sox goal to play into October every year. 

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I wouldn’t call TW one of his minions, and that’s who said it. I don’t think he meant any more of it than when he led the Let’s Go Red Sox chant. That statement didn’t bother me at all unlike what Sam spews out on a yearly basis when he says it’s the Red Sox goal to play into October every year. 

I'll post this link again so everyone can see that only the Dodgers, the Yankees, and the Cubs have more revenue than the FLOPS. Yet Henry is spending a lower percentage of that revenue on salaries than all but 7 teams in all of baseball. 

 

https://twinstrivia.com/2025/04/05/mlb-teams-revenue-versus-payroll/

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

What bothers me more, I think, than he unwillingness to spend revenue on salaries, is that he lies about his desire to win championships. He is not an idiot; he knows it takes money to do that most of the time. But he lies to the face of the Sox fans unapologetically. Thats BS. He is exposed for what he is: a liar and a cheapskate.

You think he wants to lose?

He's lying if he says he wants to win but doesn't want to win.

It's not a lie if he really wants to win but does nothing about it.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I'll post this link again so everyone can see that only the Dodgers, the Yankees, and the Cubs have more revenue than the FLOPS. Yet Henry is spending a lower percentage of that revenue on salaries than all but 7 teams in all of baseball. 

 

https://twinstrivia.com/2025/04/05/mlb-teams-revenue-versus-payroll/

Nobody is disputing this (that I know of.) My guess is there is also hidden revenue, too.

Every area of business will have some owners paying their employees a lower or higher share of revenue than others. It doesn't make it okay, but it's the reality.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I wouldn’t call TW one of his minions, and that’s who said it. I don’t think he meant any more of it than when he led the Let’s Go Red Sox chant. That statement didn’t bother me at all unlike what Sam spews out on a yearly basis when he says it’s the Red Sox goal to play into October every year. 

The play in OCT is every team's "goal." Many know it's impossible or extremely unlikely. Most don't say "full throttle" then take their foot off the gas.

[mvp 78]

34 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Well....it IS his money and he has the right to spend it any way he wants. But the lack of willingness to spend the revenue on player salaries in order to make the team competitive is inconsistent with what in fact are his lies about wanting the team to win. He knows all too well what it would take to win-$$$ and good judgement. The good judgement part isn't directly his responsibility but the $$$ is something over which he has more direct control. He is feeding us fans a bunch of ********, claiming that he wants to win but isn't willing to spend the available money to do it.

I think the problem comes down to a few too many recent seasons of them saying they are going for it or going to be playoff contenders or full throttle or what have you and then really just halfassing it. I think that's why the fanbase has a right to be critical of JH at the moment. Were at the point now where it's show me, don't tell me. We've heard that there are internal spending limits that have been set. The positional side of things is still unfinished right now, so we'll have to see where they go from here. 

[mvp 78]

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's the "full throttle" type statements by his minions that are dishonest and deceitful. At least just be honest.

Sorry, but PR is just the way of the world. 

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I think the problem comes down to a few too many recent seasons of them saying they are going for it or going to be playoff contenders or full throttle or what have you and then really just halfassing it. I think that's why the fanbase has a right to be critical of JH at the moment. Were at the point now where it's show me, don't tell me. We've heard that there are internal spending limits that have been set. The positional side of things is still unfinished right now, so we'll have to see where they go from here. 

You could argue the "just save face" goes back even further with the smear campaigns on guys out the door. Even Francona.

[mvp 78]

36 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not a communist, so unless you are, where is the outrage over our whole capitalistic system?

We're talking about baseball here. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think the problem comes down to a few too many recent seasons of them saying they are going for it or going to be playoff contenders or full throttle or what have you and then really just halfassing it. I think that's why the fanbase has a right to be critical of JH at the moment. Were at the point now where it's show me, don't tell me. We've heard that there are internal spending limits that have been set. The positional side of things is still unfinished right now, so we'll have to see where they go from here. 

Well said. The concern is heightened by the fact that we are too close to the 3rd tax line.

Seriously, though, how many of us felt we'd be talking over the 2nd line and approaching line 3?

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

We're talking about baseball here. 

I thought this was about revenue and greed.

[mvp 78]

Just now, drewski6 said:

You could argue the "just save face" goes back even further with the smear campaigns on guys out the door. Even Francona.

Look, you have to realize that's just reality. You have to call up your stooges at the Globe whenever someone leaves your organization. It's just the way it is. 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The play in OCT is every team's "goal." Many know it's impossible or extremely unlikely. Most don't say "full throttle" then take their foot off the gas.

TW is just someone who they pull out of the shadows every now, and then, and then he goes back in. You looked too much into it from someone who probably doesn’t have any knowledge or let alone say in what the Red Sox do on the field on a daily basis.

[JoeBrady]

47 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think he meant any more of it than when he led the Let’s Go Red Sox chant.

That was always my thought.  He just said something stupid without giving it a thought.  He wasn't trying to lie to fans to get them to buy tickets.  Some folks should never talk with the media.

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, Old Red said:

TW is just someone who they pull out of the shadows every now, and then, and then he goes back in. You looked too much into it from someone who probably doesn’t have any knowledge or let alone say in what the Red Sox do on the field on a daily basis.

Ultimately, it's what's done and how it translates from paper to field, but these guys talked the talk and walked it back.

[FredLynn]

59 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You think he wants to lose?

He's lying if he says he wants to win but doesn't want to win.

It's not a lie if he really wants to win but does nothing about it.

Oh-of course he doesn’t want to lose! But he sure as hell doesn’t want to go all in on winning this year when we have a decent window to compete for a ring. Saying you want to win and having the means to compete for a ring but not spending to get the job done is another form of lying imo. It’s definitely dishonest.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Oh-of course he doesn’t want to lose! But he sure as hell doesn’t want to go all in on winning this year when we have a decent window to compete for a ring. Saying you want to win and having the means to compete for a ring but not spending to get the job done is another form of lying imo. It’s definitely dishonest.

Lying requires intent to be dishonest. I think he really feels like he's giving an effort to win. Even when he cut spending, he felt the product was better than it was. 

Also, he would not replace Kimbrel & Kelly in 2019, but that budget was bigger than 2018. You say, "He wasn't trying." He was thinking, "I'm spending more now than last year, so how dare you say that!"

The 2020, even without Betts was not bad on paper, if Price, Sale, ERod and others actually played, and JD didn't have a WTF season.

Then, 2021 happened and just emboldened JH into thinking this cheaper way was still "trying" enough to not call him a liar.

Fred, I'm a lot more like you than I sound. I've been pissed off, bigtime. I called this all a "sham" and been criticized for saying that. He could, should and can spend more- way more. I wish he would. The reasons and evidence is there to support that position. I get it, really- I do.

I think I just try to see the whole picture- not that you don't. I think every owner could spend more and way more. Some owners who have less revenue than JH have more money than he does. They all look at profits and what is appropriate spending differently. I don't expect uniformity and everyone to spend exactly proportionately to their revenue ranking.

JH brought this team 4 rings, and while that does not put him above criticism, I'm glad as hell he took the team over and hired the right guys and spent enough money to get us to glory 4 times. I have hopes we get one for the thumb, and I love how this team is shaping up and improving. There are still reasons to be upset and pessimistic, but I see improvement. I see broken strategies changing. I see a strong focus on pitching from top to bottom, and I like what I'm seeing, despite some moments of frustration. I'm not going to look at nearly everything through the lense of negativity. We are getting better. We haven't been able to say that for a while.

[FredLynn]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Lying requires intent to be dishonest. I think he really feels like he's giving an effort to win. Even when he cut spending, he felt the product was better than it was. 

Also, he would not replace Kimbrel & Kelly in 2019, but that budget was bigger than 2018. You say, "He wasn't trying." He was thinking, "I'm spending more now than last year, so how dare you say that!"

The 2020, even without Betts was not bad on paper, if Price, Sale, ERod and others actually played, and JD didn't have a WTF season.

Then, 2021 happened and just emboldened JH into thinking this cheaper way was still "trying" enough to not call him a liar.

Fred, I'm a lot more like you than I sound. I've been pissed off, bigtime. I called this all a "sham" and been criticized for saying that. He could, should and can spend more- way more. I wish he would. The reasons and evidence is there to support that position. I get it, really- I do.

I think I just try to see the whole picture- not that you don't. I think every owner could spend more and way more. Some owners who have less revenue than JH have more money than he does. They all look at profits and what is appropriate spending differently. I don't expect uniformity and everyone to spend exactly proportionately to their revenue ranking.

JH brought this team 4 rings, and while that does not put him above criticism, I'm glad as hell he took the team over and hired the right guys and spent enough money to get us to glory 4 times. I have hopes we get one for the thumb, and I love how this team is shaping up and improving. There are still reasons to be upset and pessimistic, but I see improvement. I see broken strategies changing. I see a strong focus on pitching from top to bottom, and I like what I'm seeing, despite some moments of frustration. I'm not going to look at nearly everything through the lense of negativity. We are getting better. We haven't been able to say that for a while.

Another way to look at lying is "saying you are going to do something, having the means to do it, and failing to do what it takes to keep your word". In my book that is lying. Now if the team sucked I would not expect him to go for it in 2026. But they don't suck. They have an ace and a good rotation now that is deep and talented. They have a budding all star in Anthony and a decent but inadequate backup cast of players. This is our window. If we sucked we should be selling off our players and building for another year.

I expect honesty from the owner.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Another way to look at lying is "saying you are going to do something, having the means to do it, and failing to do what it takes to keep your word". In my book that is lying. Now if the team sucked I would not expect him to go for it in 2026. But they don't suck. They have an ace and a good rotation now that is deep and talented. They have a budding all star in Anthony and a decent but inadequate backup cast of players. This is our window. If we sucked we should be selling off our players and building for another year.

I expect honesty from the owner.

If he felt like he did "enough" I don't see it as being dishonest, just wrong.

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If he felt like he did "enough" I don't see it as being dishonest, just wrong.

Henry is a smart man. He knows it takes high level talent to win a ring most of the time. And he knows that to attract high level talent it takes money, which he has plenty of. He could have afforded Schwarber. He could have afforded Alonso, And he could have afforded Bregman, but he let all of those top end players slip away to more generous owners. Saying you want to win but not "putting your money where your mouth is" is dishonest.

[drewski6]

The Red Sox are a hybrid between a business and a passion project.  Some think that running the team as a money making vehicle is justified, while others think owners should see themselves more as custodian of beloved entity.....Of course, if someone sees the RS as a business that would guide their objectives, and profit would be higher up on the list of enterprise goals vs someone who saw the Red sox as something more than just a pure for-profit business.  People have discussed this here and discussed it well, and I have nothing to add. What I do want to speak to, because it is bothering me, is this notion that Ive seen quite a bit here - that for-profit businesses exist solely for profit.  As if nobody ever opened a restaurant because they love feeding people. Or nobody ever chose to pay an employee more than the minimum amount to keep them. Or nobody ever bought a baseball team because they love baseball brings smiles to faces.

Ive built departments, promoted, hired, Ive had people quit on me (of course).  The people telling you that you get to the top of a company with ruthlessness are not people who get to the top. Organizations differ, but mostly these types have a middle management mentality, have grown bitter with frustration,  and have adopted a "company over everyone" cynical worldview to cope with their own shortcomings.  These stooges hope to get noticed and finally get out of the hell of middle management.  Well, it took me 1.5 yrs to get out of middle management. And I did it with honesty, integrity, and morality  (and no , civility is not morality) and doing the opposite of what old men told me to do.

Ive never been in a position where Ive had to worry about an employee/contractor bluffing (like Breslow) or whether or not to believe them like Breslow had to do with Bregman.  Ive never been in a situation where Im like "you lying?" conversations are not "poker games". I cultivate trust, build relationships, and try to promote and pay generously. Being honest cultivates an honest culture. Being kind cultivates a kind culture. Being deceptive cultivates a deceptive culture. People project, people who are very concerned about Bregman being less than honest about his other offers, are probably people who have used deception themselves.

IVe also never tried to max my departments profits, and Ive always seen the people on my team (and my clients) as humans. It is simply not true that every business in existence is trying to max money and thats a pretty cynical world view.  If that were true, why am I successful doing the exact opposite of trying to max profits.  I keep my eye on it, of course, and its a balance - but most successful people want to give back. Sure there are exceptions, who will propagandize you into thinking that everyone who is generous has an ulterior agenda - but thats only because those types need to convince themselves that everyone is as ruthless as they are, and they arent "especially broken". I understand how in this climate, it does appear that empathy and seeing others as humans is a little harder to spot then it use to be, and thats a shame, but I wont stop looking for it. I will not accept that there is no empathy.

I will also not accept that the Red Sox exist to make max money or even thats the norm for a business. I will not accept that business owners look to take-take-take and not give-back, or that its justified to use deception to pay people as little as you can get away with....I will not accept that these things are necessary or even helpful to an organization (baseball or others). And I wont stop saying that. Youll have to kill me or ban me.

When I started in the working world at 22 yrs old fresh out of bentley, a lot of people told me that Ill always be just a number or a worker and only by accepting that will I climb. That in corporate America there is no place for fair or generosity or honesty and I had to be ruthless and just accept that this is work. These were the easiest people for me to shoot right by.

The best leaders have leadership skills.  And when you start talking about how business exists to make money and we have to just accept that, well I have 2 things:

1. Its not my experience, even though Ive heard that quite a bit from mediocre minds stuck in dead-end roles
2. Accepting anything that you feel should be improved is for followers. Be a leader.

When I started, a lot of people 10-20 years older were telling me "listen up kid, its a ruthless world and even more so in the business world" and I was gonna get chewed up and spit out. Now those people work for me.

I didnt accept that people would be treated like workers to make the company money (and not humans who are giving the company their lives). And so I changed it. At every one of my career stops. And I did it all without really ever having to work past 5pm.

Honesty and fair- generous treatment of humans are what I expect from the Red Sox. The Red Sox exist to bring happiness and joy to people.  And you should consider them successful if they are making people smile and changing lives for the better.  Not by the amount of wins they have and CERTAINLY not by how profitable they are. Thank you for reading.

 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Henry is a smart man. He knows it takes high level talent to win a ring most of the time. And he knows that to attract high level talent it takes money, which he has plenty of. He could have afforded Schwarber. He could have afforded Alonso, And he could have afforded Bregman, but he let all of those top end players slip away to more generous owners. Saying you want to win but not "putting your money where your mouth is" is dishonest.

He put his money where his mouth is and signed Ranger and is paying $20M+ for Gray and Contreras. He's just not spending it on the guys you wanted, so he's a liar.

The budget is $50M more than 2023, despite dumping Devers. It's all relative, when it comes to revenue rank vs budget rank, but not on this. We differ in our views and optimism. I respect your positions but think you are overly negative.

[JoeBrady]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He's just not spending it on the guys you wanted, so he's a liar.

I've said this before, but I find a lot of the discussions about spending to be related to how they spend.  Some posters were very upset that we didn't sign Alonso.  Some were very upset we didn't sign Bregman.  I said all along that, who we sign, is not as important as just spending the money.  That Breslow, and by extension JH, was willing to spend the $31M+, was the most important consideration.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

He put his money where his mouth is and signed Ranger and is paying $20M+ for Gray and Contreras. He's just not spending it on the guys you wanted, so he's a liar.

The budget is $50M more than 2023, despite dumping Devers. It's all relative, when it comes to revenue rank vs budget rank, but not on this. We differ in our views and optimism. I respect your positions but think you are overly negative.

Fair enough. I also respect your position. But we differ on what constitutes dishonesty. I suspect we will continue to disagree on that. When you are 23rd in percentage of revenue spent on player salaries that’s telling. It implies to me that you really are going all in when you should to secure top talent since you claimed that was your intent (to compete for a championship) and you have the means to do so but failed to do your best to keep that promise. 

[FredLynn]

57 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I've said this before, but I find a lot of the discussions about spending to be related to how they spend.  Some posters were very upset that we didn't sign Alonso.  Some were very upset we didn't sign Bregman.  I said all along that, who we sign, is not as important as just spending the money.  That Breslow, and by extension JH, was willing to spend the $31M+, was the most important consideration.

There is no one here that I know of who thinks that spending the available money wisely isn’t important. The issue is that there should be more money available based on the large revenue the franchise takes in. 

[notin]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

There is no one here that I know of who thinks that spending the available money wisely isn’t important. The issue is that there should be more money available based on the large revenue the franchise takes in. 

But if they find a way to win for $100 million, are they supposed to spend $250million to prove commitment?