Boston Red Sox Looking For An Upgrade Over Jarren Duran

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

We do not have to trade any of our outfielders! 
 

ideally, bres-slow earns his money by enticing someone to take yoshida from us. 
 

hang’em Chaim is the perfect trade partner for this. 

Where is Schwarber going to play?

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

We do not have to trade any of our outfielders!  

We don't have to, but it makes way too much sense.

1. Duran & the other 3 are worth way more to another team as OF'ers than to us a DH or rotating DH.

2. One could easily argue Rafaela's major value is CF defense, and moving him to the infield moves him into a net negative player, although his offense is probably better than DHam, if that is the only other option at 2B.

3. Trading Masa is a great idea that no other GM sees as a great idea.

4. Casas belongs at DH, too, so even if we are able to trade Masa, we should sign Alonso or Suarez to play 1B and DH Casas not an OF'er. (Keeping Casas from more chances at injury is also a reason to DH hiim. He's our best power bat, right now.)

5. Our two best everyday player prospects/graduates both look like OF is their best solution. Jh Garcia is better on D than Duran and maybe Anthony. Campbell may be the worst defensive OF'er but as a RHB with a high bat ceiling, we cannot write him off. We may not love the idea of Campbell-Garcia replacing Duran, but in reality, they'd be our 4-5 OF'ers likely playing in AAA until a FT opportunity arises. (We may bring Ref back for one more season for this reason.)

We should have traded an OF'er last winter and started Anthony opening day. One could argue Duran's value was never higher. Abreu's value did not go up. Only Ceddanne's did.

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Where is Schwarber going to play?

He can probably play 1B better than Casas and close to the same as Alonso, but DH needs a boost in power.

[Larry Cook]

4 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Where is Schwarber going to play?

In Philly! 

[Duran Is The Man]

6 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Should vs shouldnt, my point is that the in order of likelihood

1. Someone is traded
2. There is a positional rotation where mutliple guys play DH sometimes, and outfielders move to infield sometimes

Rafaela will play inf again in his life.  Just like Betts.  Not saying that I would pencil him to inf right now, just saying that nobody is going to not use his versatility.  What happens if we trade Duran and then Campbell is hitting .400 in AAA in May and we are getting nothing from 2b?  Most likely, Cedanne goes to infield, Campbell takes over in OF.

Its not plan A, but it will happen at some point (maybe not next year). Guys move around.

....unless you're Rafael Devers. 

[Larry Cook]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We don't have to, but it makes way too much sense.

1. Duran & the other 3 are worth way more to another team as OF'ers than to us a DH or rotating DH.

2. One could easily argue Rafaela's major value is CF defense, and moving him to the infield moves him into a net negative player, although his offense is probably better than DHam, if that is the only other option at 2B.

3. Trading Masa is a great idea that no other GM sees as a great idea.

4. Casas belongs at DH, too, so even if we are able to trade Masa, we should sign Alonso or Suarez to play 1B and DH Casas not an OF'er. (Keeping Casas from more chances at injury is also a reason to DH hiim. He's our best power bat, right now.)

5. Our two best everyday player prospects/graduates both look like OF is their best solution. Jh Garcia is better on D than Duran and maybe Anthony. Campbell may be the worst defensive OF'er but as a RHB with a high bat ceiling, we cannot write him off. We may not love the idea of Campbell-Garcia replacing Duran, but in reality, they'd be our 4-5 OF'ers likely playing in AAA until a FT opportunity arises. (We may bring Ref back for one more season for this reason.)

We should have traded an OF'er last winter and started Anthony opening day. One could argue Duran's value was never higher. Abreu's value did not go up. Only Ceddanne's did.

I agree 100 percent. Last offseason was the high water mark for Duran! 
 

I do not believe Garcia is  ready to play in Boston to start next season, 

an outfield of Anthony, rafeala, abreau, Campbell and Duran works  if yoshida is not on the roster 

[JoeBrady]

7 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Why not?

Most lefties have split issues.  Unless they are really bad, teams generally put up with the issue, and give them days off against the tougher lefties.

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

My point has been that Duran is worth more to another team as an OF'er than to us as a DH.

Rafaela should never play infield again, unless as a 1-2 game emergency.

Rafaela is about as good in CF as anyone I've ever seen.  If three guys go down with an injury, maybe move him to the IF until you get it fixed.  Other than that, he plays all 162 in CF.

[Hitch]

10 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

We do not have to trade any of our outfielders! 
 

ideally, bres-slow earns his money by enticing someone to take yoshida from us. 
 

hang’em Chaim is the perfect trade partner for this. 

Why would anyone take that contract on? The only chance is if we attach a high level prospect to it, and even then...

[Hugh2]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

Why would anyone take that contract on? The only chance is if we attach a high level prospect to it, and even then...

I've often wondered if the Sox could split the difference on this.  Trade Masataka to a team, eat half his salary and give them a couple good but not elite prospects. Like a couple guys in the 15-25 range. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I've often wondered if the Sox could split the difference on this.  Trade Masataka to a team, eat half his salary and give them a couple good but not elite prospects. Like a couple guys in the 15-25 range. 

The moon potpourri of prospects. 

[Hitch]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I've often wondered if the Sox could split the difference on this.  Trade Masataka to a team, eat half his salary and give them a couple good but not elite prospects. Like a couple guys in the 15-25 range. 

I'd be very much on board with that. 

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I'd be very much on board with that. 

I'm wondering if one of our prospects who have fallen from grace but still offer upside might entice them.  Either entirely or part of package of prospects.  E.G. Miguel Bleis or Yoelinis Cespedes.  It's still going to have to sting a little bit.

But I don't think losing one of those guys is going to hurt the system at this point and the roster flexibility it creates is probably worth more.  For example, and I'm not saying they go this route but they COULD hypothetically sign a Pete Alonso and still have a roster spot for Tristan Casas if he actually came back stayed healthy and hit. 

Maybe that example isn't the way they go, but it illustrates the possibilities with the roster with Yoshida off of it. 

 

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I'm wondering if one of our prospects who have fallen from grace but still offer upside might entice them.  Either entirely or part of package of prospects.  E.G. Miguel Bleis or Yoelinis Cespedes.  It's still going to have to sting a little bit.

But I don't think losing one of those guys is going to hurt the system at this point and the roster flexibility it creates is probably worth more.  For example, and I'm not saying they go this route but they COULD hypothetically sign a Pete Alonso and still have a roster spot for Tristan Casas if he actually came back stayed healthy and hit. 

Maybe that example isn't the way they go, but it illustrates the possibilities with the roster with Yoshida off of it. 

 

I don't think losing Bleis and Cespedes stings at all. My guess is he'd have to be packaged with a Paez/Sandoval/Romero type. 

[Hugh2]

29 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't think losing Bleis and Cespedes stings at all. My guess is he'd have to be packaged with a Paez/Sandoval/Romero type. 

BTV has Cespeded + $27 million cash (half his contract) has a surplus value of 11 million.  Of course, something would have to come back in return as well. 

[notin]

18 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Where is Schwarber going to play?

Philadelphia…

[notin]

4 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

I've often wondered if the Sox could split the difference on this.  Trade Masataka to a team, eat half his salary and give them a couple good but not elite prospects. Like a couple guys in the 15-25 range. 

Why not just send Yoshida to Worcester and keep the prospects?

[Hugh2]

45 minutes ago, notin said:

Why not just send Yoshida to Worcester and keep the prospects?

Bad optics? might have a hard time signing future Japanease players?

I mean.....why haven't they done that yet?

[Hugh2]

46 minutes ago, notin said:

Why not just send Yoshida to Worcester and keep the prospects?

Also I believe his contract dissallows him to be optioned.  He'd have to agree to go.....and why would he?

[notin]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Bad optics? might have a hard time signing future Japanease players?

I mean.....why haven't they done that yet?

I like him as a hitter, although he hasn’t been as much as I hoped for.

If he gets demoted for performance reasons, I would hope Japanese players understand they have to keep their jobs.  It’s not like Dominican players stared avoiding Boston after they released Pablo and Hanley.

The “problem” with Yoshida is, he’s actually too good to demote.  That and many fans want to give a portion of his salary to someone else, who fans will undoubtedly want to pay someone else to take away in a couple years.

In 2024, Yoshida had an .825 OPS in mid-August before he fell off a cliff.  Probably when his shoulder tear happened.  If he is going to give an .825 OPS, he should just be in the DH mix…

[moonslav59]

14 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Rafaela is about as good in CF as anyone I've ever seen.  If three guys go down with an injury, maybe move him to the IF until you get it fixed.  Other than that, he plays all 162 in CF.

Yup, and I don't care if he can become a plus defender at 2B over time.

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

I've often wondered if the Sox could split the difference on this.  Trade Masataka to a team, eat half his salary and give them a couple good but not elite prospects. Like a couple guys in the 15-25 range. 

I think we'd have to give a prospect in the 6-8 range + another in the 8-12 range for near full salary relief and maybe 2 in the 8-15 range for half relief.

I keep looking at STL, but not Arenado, anymore. Sonny Gray and Contreras make a lot of money, but if STL is looking to dump salary, why take on Masa's (or Hicks') contract. Maybe we could trade Masa, Casas, Harrison and Garcia plus $10M x 2 years for Gray and Contreras.

Probably not.

[drewski6]

15 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Most lefties have split issues.  Unless they are really bad, teams generally put up with the issue, and give them days off against the tougher lefties.

Thats because of restrictions that a 26 man roster imposes.  Cant have a platoon at every position, and really considering you need to carry 2 catchers, that leaves 3 positions max for platoons.  One is prob a defensive guy, so that leaves 1-2.

I agree with you, most teams dont platoon, but I dont think its something that one should go out of their way to avoid. Sometimes, with positional versatility, you can carry a couple more (for example, if you have someoen who can back up a ton of positions, you can carry more platoon oriented bench)

A lot of righties have splits too.  I have splits. Im a righty and Ive never ever ever been able to hit a lefty.  Well, not well.

[drewski6]

So I guess reverse splits for me.

[drewski6]

15 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Rafaela is about as good in CF as anyone I've ever seen.  If three guys go down with an injury, maybe move him to the IF until you get it fixed.  Other than that, he plays all 162 in CF.

Didnt last year.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Bad optics? might have a hard time signing future Japanease players?

I mean.....why haven't they done that yet?

They did, last year.  Well IL, not worcestor.  But same thing, really. Just a park aside.

[drewski6]

You guys are all soooo anxious to move Yoshida, and Im not against it.  But this dude batted cleanup for us in the playoffs and we've lost more bats than we've gained, soooo.......

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Also I believe his contract dissallows him to be optioned.  He'd have to agree to go.....and why would he?

No, he'd just have to clear waivers (which he would).

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

They did, last year.  Well IL, not worcestor.  But same thing, really. Just a park aside.

Yeah, except apparently he was actually hurt so they actually didn't do the same thing last year. 

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, notin said:

I like him as a hitter, although he hasn’t been as much as I hoped for.

If he gets demoted for performance reasons, I would hope Japanese players understand they have to keep their jobs.  It’s not like Dominican players stared avoiding Boston after they released Pablo and Hanley.

The “problem” with Yoshida is, he’s actually too good to demote.  That and many fans want to give a portion of his salary to someone else, who fans will undoubtedly want to pay someone else to take away in a couple years.

In 2024, Yoshida had an .825 OPS in mid-August before he fell off a cliff.  Probably when his shoulder tear happened.  If he is going to give an .825 OPS, he should just be in the DH mix…

Only if Schwarber plays first.  You do not let Yoshida stop you from grabbing the best bat that you can.