Take a bow Mr Breslow

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He has two more years no matter what. If they fire Breslow too soon, nobody will apply next time. 

Breslow is gold right now to Henry for the biggest accomplishment of the season: ridding the Sox of Devers' contract. 

While consensus among fans and media has always been that the Raffy trade was the ultimate consequence of major miscommunication and mishandling by the front office, why have no personnel ever been punished or even reprimanded in public...

... for losing and not replacing the club's top home run hitter/run producer/on base/slugging/OPS leader?

(on a team that might just miss the playoffs because of a lack of offense that couldn't even overcome an injury to one rookie who wasn't called up to the majors for over two months after he proved he was good enough?)

[Bellhorn04]

15 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Sure, but no GM gets every decision right, and he's got plenty enough right to carry on. 

It's just very unusual for a team with playoff aspirations to trade a starting pitcher early in the season for prospects.  I can't remember very many instances of it. 

I don't really remember a trade like this ever, in fact.    

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Breslow is gold right now to Henry for the biggest accomplishment of the season: ridding the Sox of Devers' contract. 

While consensus among fans and media has always been that the Raffy trade was the ultimate consequence of major miscommunication and mishandling by the front office, why have no personnel ever been punished or even reprimanded in public...

... for losing and not replacing the club's top home run hitter/run producer/on base/slugging/OPS leader?

(on a team that might just miss the playoffs because of a lack of offense that couldn't even overcome an injury to one rookie who wasn't called up to the majors for over two months after he proved he was good enough?)

I understand trading Devers, but like you say, trading him and doing nothing to replace his offense is the questionable part. 

[mvp 78]

44 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Breslow is gold right now to Henry for the biggest accomplishment of the season: ridding the Sox of Devers' contract. 

While consensus among fans and media has always been that the Raffy trade was the ultimate consequence of major miscommunication and mishandling by the front office, why have no personnel ever been punished or even reprimanded in public...

... for losing and not replacing the club's top home run hitter/run producer/on base/slugging/OPS leader?

(on a team that might just miss the playoffs because of a lack of offense that couldn't even overcome an injury to one rookie who wasn't called up to the majors for over two months after he proved he was good enough?)

More than enough fans were kicking Devers on his way out of town. Why complain now? 

[mvp 78]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I understand trading Devers, but like you say, trading him and doing nothing to replace his offense is the questionable part. 

Especially when telling everyone you're going to be buyers at the deadline. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

32 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I understand trading Devers, but like you say, trading him and doing nothing to replace his offense is the questionable part. 

They may have viewed the Bregman signing from the beginning as his replacement, and Raffy being a selfish jerk just made the plan even easier.

Bregman's opt out may also be part of the plan, as they expected him to leave after an All-Star season -- which it has been (at least when he made the AL squad after a great first half). The $80 million saved when Bregman leaves could be funds to lock up Marcelo Mayer longterm -- if he shows more star potential next season.

We can be sure there are some in the front office who view six more years of Mayer in his 20s as more valuable than two more of Bregman in his 30s.

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i was upset about it. to me, starting pitchers are far more valuable than some Low A "suspects".

Yes, you and a few others were upset, but I don't think anyone saw Priester as "the one." 

We seemed to have about 11-13 pitchers we could view as capable SP'ers. Even Crawford was supposed to come back, at some point. Hell, Newcomb beat Priester out of the 5 slot on opening day, and my guess is several others were ahead of him on the depth chart. Certainly Fitts and Dobbins were, as they both started in early April.

Still, a pitcher is a pitcher and we traded one away. Again, I will add that we got two pitcher back plus YRod. Time might prove this trade was okay. MIL certainly won the 2025 aspect of 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They may have viewed the Bregman signing from the beginning as his replacement, and Raffy being a selfish jerk just made the plan even easier.

Bregman's opt out may also be part of the plan, as they expected him to leave after an All-Star season -- which it has been (at least when he made the AL squad after a great first half). The $80 million saved when Bregman leaves could be funds to lock up Marcelo Mayer longterm -- if he shows more star potential next season.

We can be sure there are some in the front office who view six more years of Mayer in his 20s as more valuable than two more of Bregman in his 30s.

All I can really say is I do think the front office is out of kicking the can down the road mode.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Especially when telling everyone you're going to be buyers at the deadline. 

How many more times are these guys going to put their feet in their mouths?

On this one, I think they actually believed the would be "buyers," and then the next question would be, do you guys really think M & M was "buying?" If they answer "yes," they are a joke. If the answer, "no," then WTF happened? They have to have known overpays are demanded at the deadline.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They may have viewed the Bregman signing from the beginning as his replacement, and Raffy being a selfish jerk just made the plan even easier.

Bregman's opt out may also be part of the plan, as they expected him to leave after an All-Star season -- which it has been (at least when he made the AL squad after a great first half). The $80 million saved when Bregman leaves could be funds to lock up Marcelo Mayer longterm -- if he shows more star potential next season.

We can be sure there are some in the front office who view six more years of Mayer in his 20s as more valuable than two more of Bregman in his 30s.

🤕

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

All I can really say is I do think the front office is out of kicking the can down the road mode.

I wonder if Brez thought he was close enough to making a more significant deadline deal, but was surprised it didn't go down. At some point, you gotta be ready to add that last piece or pivot quickly to a plan B you already had lined up.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

How many more times are these guys going to put their feet in their mouths?

On this one, I think they actually believed the would be "buyers," and then the next question would be, do you guys really think M & M was "buying?" If they answer "yes," they are a joke. If the answer, "no," then WTF happened? They have to have known overpays are demanded at the deadline.

No, they didn't think that was buying because they even said that they didn't get what they wanted out of the deadline, but at least he thought he did his best. 

"We were pursuing multiple impact players," Breslow said. "And obviously, on the other side, teams that were operating as sellers were trying to juggle different concepts. And for whatever reason, we weren't able to line up."

"Yeah, we can't ignore what other teams are doing. At the same time, our focus today was identifying and pursuing the players that we felt like were good fits for our team. And ultimately, we're all going to be defined by what happens from tomorrow through our last game of the season and potentially the playoffs," Breslow said.

"Yeah, we spent pretty significant time trying to add a bat," Breslow said. "But someone, again, that could impact the roster, and represent a meaningful upgrade over the guys that we have, either on our team or potentially in Triple-A that we feel like would immediately improve the roster. We weren't able to line up."

"Like I said, we were kind of uncomfortably aggressive in trying to pursue them in the players that we were willing to put into deals."

"None of the deals that didn't end up being executed, in my opinion, came from a lack of being aggressive or an unwillingness to get uncomfortable."

"Like I said, we were as aggressive as we could possibly be in pursuits."

"The decisions that were made at this deadline, they weren't driven by, like I said, an unwillingness to be aggressive."

"We were aggressively pursuing acquisitions that could help us in 2025 and they didn't line up."

"We tried to put the most aggressive offers that we could in hopes that they were going to end in deals."

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No, they didn't think that was buying because they even said that they didn't get what they wanted out of the deadline, but at least he thought he did his best. 

"We were pursuing multiple impact players," Breslow said. "And obviously, on the other side, teams that were operating as sellers were trying to juggle different concepts. And for whatever reason, we weren't able to line up."

"Yeah, we can't ignore what other teams are doing. At the same time, our focus today was identifying and pursuing the players that we felt like were good fits for our team. And ultimately, we're all going to be defined by what happens from tomorrow through our last game of the season and potentially the playoffs," Breslow said.

"Yeah, we spent pretty significant time trying to add a bat," Breslow said. "But someone, again, that could impact the roster, and represent a meaningful upgrade over the guys that we have, either on our team or potentially in Triple-A that we feel like would immediately improve the roster. We weren't able to line up."

"Like I said, we were kind of uncomfortably aggressive in trying to pursue them in the players that we were willing to put into deals."

"None of the deals that didn't end up being executed, in my opinion, came from a lack of being aggressive or an unwillingness to get uncomfortable."

"Like I said, we were as aggressive as we could possibly be in pursuits."

"The decisions that were made at this deadline, they weren't driven by, like I said, an unwillingness to be aggressive."

"We were aggressively pursuing acquisitions that could help us in 2025 and they didn't line up."

"We tried to put the most aggressive offers that we could in hopes that they were going to end in deals."

Thanks for the thorough reply.

We couldn't line up pretty much means Brez refused to overpay by just enough to get it done.

To me, that's not an automatic slam on Brez, since we don't know what the final offers were from each team, and then we also have to look at how many of the biggest names that did get traded have not really done great or even good. The one that didn't get traded (Ryan) has not done too well, either.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Thanks for the thorough reply.

We couldn't line up pretty much means Brez refused to overpay by just enough to get it done.

To me, that's not an automatic slam on Brez, since we don't know what the final offers were from each team, and then we also have to look at how many of the biggest names that did get traded have not really done great or even good. The one that didn't get traded (Ryan) has not done too well, either.

The deadline is ALWAYS an overpay to acquire talent. That's why you don't wait until the deadline to fill your needs. Saying that you're going to be buyers is stating that you're going to overpay to bring guys here. If you don't, you've failed in what you've told everyone. 

They said they would BUY. They simply BROWSED.

Craig fn' Browslow. 

[Bellhorn04]

53 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I wonder if Brez thought he was close enough to making a more significant deadline deal, but was surprised it didn't go down. At some point, you gotta be ready to add that last piece or pivot quickly to a plan B you already had lined up.

And they traded Devers in the middle of June, so they had a lot of time in which they knew they were down a big bat.

They might have been held up by the simple question of whether they were actually a legit playoff contender or not.

[harmony]

What big bat did the Red Sox miss out on at the trade deadline?

Perhaps many contending clubs seeking upgrades were willing to offer packages the Red Sox were unwilling to pony up.

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Especially when telling everyone you're going to be buyers at the deadline. 

… and they were…

[notin]

32 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And they traded Devers in the middle of June, so they had a lot of time in which they knew they were down a big bat.

They might have been held up by the simple question of whether they were actually a legit playoff contender or not.

They had just battled back to 1 game over .500 when they traded Devers.  Since then, they’re 48-35 (ish).

Do you really think the thought process was “we’re not serious contenders” as opposed to “this is working”?

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

The deadline is ALWAYS an overpay to acquire talent. That's why you don't wait until the deadline to fill your needs. Saying that you're going to be buyers is stating that you're going to overpay to bring guys here. If you don't, you've failed in what you've told everyone. 

They said they would BUY. They simply BROWSED.

Craig fn' Browslow. 

Agreed. I do think Brez did a good job building depth, as well as adding some quality (Bregman, Chapman & Gio fro '24) over the winter, so as to minimize the chances we'd need a major deadline deal, but the Devers grade undid much of that and created a must do deadline situation that went unfulfilled.

I'm not defending his inaction, but I also do not think it's the only thing he should be judge on.

 

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, harmony said:

What big bat did the Red Sox miss out on at the trade deadline?

Perhaps many contending clubs seeking upgrades were willing to offer packages the Red Sox were unwilling to pony up.

The biggest one, Suarez, you guys got. Although he has shown some big power with SEA, his OPS is under .700 since the trade.

Naylor had done well, and certainly better than Lowe, but not really anything spectacular.

Who esle?

[harmony]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The biggest one, Suarez, you guys got. Although he has shown some big power with SEA, his OPS is under .700 since the trade.

Naylor had done well, and certainly better than Lowe, but not really anything spectacular.

Who esle?

To acquire Eugenio Suarez and Josh Naylor, the Mariners traded away five prospects ranked between No. 9 and No. 17 in a deep Seattle farm system that still has nine prospects in MLB Pipeline's Top 100 and seven prospects in Jim Bowden's Top 50.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-trade-deadline-2025-transaction-tracker

The traded prospects would have ranked among the Top 10 in many MLB organizations.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. I do think Brez did a good job building depth, as well as adding some quality (Bregman, Chapman & Gio fro '24) over the winter, so as to minimize the chances we'd need a major deadline deal, but the Devers grade undid much of that and created a must do deadline situation that went unfulfilled.

I'm not defending his inaction, but I also do not think it's the only thing he should be judge on.

 

Nobody is judging him ONLY on that. It's fair to give him criticism when deserved though.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Nobody is judging him ONLY on that. It's fair to give him criticism when deserved though.

Nobody but Fred, yes.

I didnt mean to imply you were judging him only on that blunder.

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Nobody is judging him ONLY on that. It's fair to give him criticism when deserved though.

Brez will get judged on everything, and ultimately the final results. Brez has been more aggressive like trading Sale, and Raffy that I don’t believe Bloom would have done, but he’s followed Bloom’s roadmap at the trade deadline. 

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

How many more times are these guys going to put their feet in their mouths?

On this one, I think they actually believed the would be "buyers," and then the next question would be, do you guys really think M & M was "buying?" If they answer "yes," they are a joke. If the answer, "no," then WTF happened? They have to have known overpays are demanded at the deadline.

This happened. They (he) said no, they were not buyers. Because "other teams have to want your players"

According to Brez , didnt have the chips other GMs wanted. He said it wasnt about trying to get fair value, or protect players he really liked either. He said he even made offers that he didnt think he would make, offering players that would shock the media/fans.  He said just no bites.

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Thanks for the thorough reply.

We couldn't line up pretty much means Brez refused to overpay by just enough to get it done.

To me, that's not an automatic slam on Brez, since we don't know what the final offers were from each team, and then we also have to look at how many of the biggest names that did get traded have not really done great or even good. The one that didn't get traded (Ryan) has not done too well, either.

No, I think you are adding to it.  Per Brez, he was willing to go there.  He just said tell me a name that will make it work and they said a name of a guy on another team.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

No, I think you are adding to it.  Per Brez, he was willing to go there.  He just said tell me a name that will make it work and they said a name of a guy on another team.  

Now that we've seen all the Red Sox top-rated hitting and pitching prospects drink at least a cup of coffee in the majors, it kinda makes you wonder if only Boston's fans and media fell for the hype machine.

Anthony looks decent on D and circling the bags, but shows two legit tools to be a star hitter: barrels and reaching base. The rest of the potential regulars -- Campbell, Mayer, Garcia -- show promise in the minors, but possess maybe only one or two assets that can contribute to MLB wins... so far. Narvaez, while not developed in the org, seems solid, but with flaws that can improve, like blocking bad pitches and making two-strike contact.

On the mound, though, the young arms were maybe guys other clubs coveted more -- Early (who Brez turned down a bid for), Dobbins and his command, or Tolle and his fastball extension.

[mvp 78]

Jhostynxon only had 9 PA's in MLB this year. Not sure what you're gathering from that sss. 

Mayer's only downside right now is his inability to stay healthy. If he was put on the open market, the Sox would get offers from close to 29 teams. 

[Old Red]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Jhostynxon only had 9 PA's in MLB this year. Not sure what you're gathering from that sss. 

Mayer's only downside right now is his inability to stay healthy. If he was put on the open market, the Sox would get offers from close to 29 teams. 

Mayer has lost valuable developmental time the last few years, and this year lost a golden opportunity to show what he can do due to injuries. Troubling sign of being injury prone at a young age. Agee on other teams having interest if Mayer was available.

[drewski6]

47 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Now that we've seen all the Red Sox top-rated hitting and pitching prospects drink at least a cup of coffee in the majors, it kinda makes you wonder if only Boston's fans and media fell for the hype machine.

Anthony looks decent on D and circling the bags, but shows two legit tools to be a star hitter: barrels and reaching base. The rest of the potential regulars -- Campbell, Mayer, Garcia -- show promise in the minors, but possess maybe only one or two assets that can contribute to MLB wins... so far. Narvaez, while not developed in the org, seems solid, but with flaws that can improve, like blocking bad pitches and making two-strike contact.

On the mound, though, the young arms were maybe guys other clubs coveted more -- Early (who Brez turned down a bid for), Dobbins and his command, or Tolle and his fastball extension.

Its hard to say, but I lean towards its not a function of we overrating our own because the national rankings and such also have our prospects/pieces quite high.  I think its either that while our pieces are ranked highly, they werent specifically what would-be partners were seeking, or Breslow is talking nonsense and the real reasons he didnt want to state (e.g. trying to "win" the deal, or not believing in the 2025 team enough to do something in the short term, simply running out of time)